The flood in Genesis

[OmarKhayyam]

Was this the source of your "old" but new paintings?

Brushwork beats boffins!

BTW, did you note that what was dated was the carbon in the PAINT used in the work - nothing else. It is entirely possible that the age for the carbon IN the paint, some 1200 yrs old, is accurate.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Hi rusra02 ~ I have in front of me the Book "ANCIENT EGYPT" written by David P Silverman, Curator-in-charge of the Egyptian Section of the Univ. of Pennsylvania Museum. This man has no ax to grind with the bible. He tells what has been found about Egypt.

In 2370 BC which is the end of the 5th Dynasty [2500-2350] Egypt had had 9 kings in Egypt, Unas was King from 2371-2350 BC. The 4th Dynasty ran from 2625-2500BC with 7 Kings and the 6th Dynasty after the 5th ran from 2350-2170BC with at least 6 Kings.

Now my question to you is if the biblical flood happened in 2370BC HOW COME EGYPT HAD MANY KINGS BEFORE THE FLOOD AND MANY KINGS AFTER THAT FLOOD DATE WHEN ALL HUMANS EXCEPT 8 WERE KILLED BY THE BIBLICAL FLOOD IN 2370BC??

According to all history books Egypt was in its greatest time of its life at 2370BC.

There are cities in this world today that have had people inhabiting them CONTENTIOUSLY for over 5000 years old-a few of them: Athens, Greece; Beirut, Lebanon; 5500 years old- Hebron, West bank; 6000 years old-Medinat Al-Fayous, Egypt; Sidon, Lebanon; 6,200 years old- Susa, Iran; Aleppo, and Damascus ,Syria and the oldest is Byblos[Jbeil] in Lebanon 7000 years of people living in the same village without a biblical flood happening to them. How do you explain all these towns having people living in them longer than the biblical flood AND SOME LONGER THEN CREATION??? Please take the time to look these up on Google and prove that what I am telling you is true.

Now Do you have a different date for the biblical flood????

You have a great day

I've already explained this very early on and hoped we could end this thread and do away with this silly flood hypothesis. This biblical story is pretty much a copy of an older story. Certain information was changed to fit a particular audience. At the supposed time of this flood other thriving civilizations seemed to be unaware they were underwater due to a worldwide flood.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

At the supposed time of this flood other thriving civilizations seemed to be unaware they were underwater due to a worldwide flood.

Excellent!

 

[Arlanbb]

Eleven years ago, an artistic South African grandmother, Joan Ahrens, produced some fine paintings using rocks as her canvases, imitating traditional Bushman art. Later, one of her painted rocks was picked up in the veld near her former home in the city of Pietermaritzburg. Eventually it got into the hands of the curator of the city’s museum. Unaware of the origin of this rock art, the curator had it dated in England by the Oxford University radio carbon accelerator unit. Experts estimated that the painting was 1,200 years old! Why such an embarrassing error? “It has since been established,” according to a report in South Africa’s Sunday Times, “that the oil paint used by Mrs Ahrens contained natural oils which contained carbon—the only substance dated by Oxford.”
Popular Science (November 1979, p. 81) reports that physicist Robert Gentry “believes that all of the dates determined by radioactive decay may be off—not only by a few years, but by orders of magnitude.” The article points out that his findings would lead to the conclusion that “man, instead of having walked the earth for 3.6 million years, may have been around for only a few thousand.”
Incidentally, any change in radiation would have altered the rate of formation of radioactive carbon-14 to such an extent as to invalidate all radiocarbon dates prior to the Flood.
Which begs the question, where did the dates come from? And how reliable are they?
Mrs. Ahrens experience is one of many such...

Hi rusra02 ~ You beg the question, where did the dates come from? And how reliable are they? There is only one thing WRONG in your reasoning on the dating of the Kings. The dating of the Egyptian Kings was NOT DONE by using C-14. The dating was found from written records, that is why we can give a exact years like 22371 to 2350 BC for how long the king was in office. C-14 only give an estimate like 3458 + or - 250 years. Can you get any more reliable than written records? According to written documents Egypt has been a nation from about 3000BC through your biblical flood of 2370BC clear down to the time of Christ. If there were only 8 people saved in the worldwide flood of 2370BC how come Egypt had people living before and after the biblical flood????

I have not found one archaeologist out of the over 300 I served that has found any evidence of a Genesis Deluge in the last 10,000 years. Please explain that absence of any biblical flood evidence>>??

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If there were only 8 people saved in the worldwide flood of 2370BC how come Egypt had people living before and after the biblical flood????

NO NO NO......!!!!!!!!

Not "BEFORE and AFTER"

How about BEFORE.....DURING....and....AFTER...????????

 

[Autodidact]

Hi rusra02 ~ You beg the question, where did the dates come from? And how reliable are they? There is only one thing WRONG in your reasoning on the dating of the Kings. The dating of the Egyptian Kings was NOT DONE by using C-14. The dating was found from written records, that is why we can give a exact years like 22371 to 2350 BC for how long the king was in office. C-14 only give an estimate like 3458 + or - 250 years. Can you get any more reliable than written records? According to written documents Egypt has been a nation from about 3000BC through your biblical flood of 2370BC clear down to the time of Christ. If there were only 8 people saved in the worldwide flood of 2370BC how come Egypt had people living before and after the biblical flood????

I have not found one archaeologist out of the over 300 I served that has found any evidence of a Genesis Deluge in the last 10,000 years. Please explain that absence of any biblical flood evidence>>??

Furthermore, these records are corroborated by, and in turn corroborate, carbon dating of material from that period.

And everyone: What's with the big colored fonts and stuff? Should I give a simple explanation of the quote function?

 

[Autodidact]

Think about it, rusra (difficult though that may be for you.) I'm an Egyptian King, living in a palace, with slaves, and lots of nice stuff. Then I'm underwater for year, during and after which I keep right on recording the wheat harvest, the stars and sun, and my offspring, never noticing that I was underwater while I did it. Then my son ascends the throne, neither of us having drowned, and continues to record our various doings.

And not just in Egypt, but in China especially. Those poor Chinese, writing down their history, recorded the Emperors ruling before, during and after the flood, failing to notice that they were underwater at the time. How is that possible?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are assuming the huge mountains existing today were as tall as in Noah's day.

Genesis specifies the mountains as "the mountains of Ararat", i.e. mountains that do exist today. Is the Bible wrong?

Bible chronology points to 2370 BCE as the year the flood occurred.

Hmm. So... Niagara Falls has been flowing underwater for most of its history. This is truly a marvel of hydrodynamics. You'll have to show me how this is possible.

Also, when you have a chance, please tell us how the glacier that prevented the Niagara River from flowing before that managed to stay resting on the floor of this worldwide ocean rather than floating like most ice does in water.

 

[Autodidact]

Here, rusra, here's a simple question for you. How many beetles did Noah take on the ark?

 

[finale23]

Do you know how many species of animals are there in the world? millions. Let's assume there was only 1 million and Noah was collecting one species per minute.

There are 60 mins in an hour, so Noah was collecting 60 species per hour.

There are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, totaling to 525,600 mins or species.

1 million or 1,000,000 species of animal would have taken Noah more than 3 years to collect, assuming he would not stop for food, bathroom break, or sleep.

Where's your god now?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

And not just in Egypt, but in China especially. Those poor Chinese, writing down their history, recorded the Emperors ruling before, during and after the flood, failing to notice that they were underwater at the time. How is that possible?

Egyptians and Chinese were put here to test our faith. They're kind of like fossils that way.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1 million or 1,000,000 species of animal would have taken Noah more than 3 years to collect, assuming he would not stop for food, bathroom break, or sleep.

Hence all the fossils we find of extinct species: these are all the ones that Noah missed.

 

[Autodidact]

Here is a list of the main problems, I think.

1. Can't build a wooden boat that big without it falling apart.
2. Not enough time to gather all the animals.
3. Not enough room for all the animals.
4.Not enough water.
5. No accounting for different erosions of present mountains, i.e. why don't the Rockies look like the Appalachians?
6. Impossible to maintain polar ice caps or regrow them in time period since flood.
7. No sedimentary traces on sea floor.
8. No evidence of flood in ice core samples.
9. No evidence of flood in tree rings.
10. Order of fossil sorting inconsistent with flood, e.g. ancient flyers, such as pteranodons, are in older layers than modern sloths.
11. Surface features preserved in rock layers, such as rain drops, dunes, and so forth. How could that happen with a flood?
12. Sedimentary layers too keep for a single flood, unless it laid down miles of sediment per day.
13. Varves. Period. Varves alone blows the whole thing out of the water, so to speak. Ask me ifyou don't know what they are.
14. Layered fossil forests. How do you get one forest to grow on top of another during a flood?
15. Limestone.
16. Chalk.
17. Layers of solid salt.
18. coral layers.
19. Too many fossils to have all been alive at the same time.
20. Too much coal and oil for the forests to have existed at the same time--it would be bigger than the earth.
21. How did ground plants survive being under water for months on end?
22. How did freshwater, brackish water and salt water fish all survive?
23. What about short-lived species, like may-flies?
24. Why are there kangaroos in Australia, but not Arizona, and roadrunners in Arizona, and not Australia? e.g. how did koala bears get from Armenia to Australia, and why did none of them stop on the way?
25. Why no records of the flood by Egyptians and even Babylonians?

Thanks to Mark Isaak

 

[themadhair]

You know you read TO too much when, after only the third point, you recognise the material as being from TO. And moreso when you pre-cringe knowing the phrase 'koala bear' is coming.

26. The required post-flood super evolution to regenerate the species numbers would have killed those creatures.

 

[Autodidact]

You know you read TO too much when, after only the third point, you recognise the material as being from TO. And moreso when you pre-cringe knowing the phrase 'koala bear' is coming.

26. The required post-flood super evolution to regenerate the species numbers would have killed those creatures.

Hey, that was my own original koala bear usage! Oh, alright then, platypus. Why no platypi in Pennsylvannia?

 

[Arlanbb]

Incidentally, any change in radiation would have altered the rate of formation of radioactive carbon-14 to such an extent as to invalidate all radiocarbon dates prior to the Flood.
Which begs the question, where did the dates come from? And how reliable are they?

Hi rusra02 ~ Did you know that Carbon-14 dating has been cross-checked with tree-rings samples and that when you get into the 8,000 year range of the Brisal cone pines tree rings, Carbon-14 readings was short in its reading of the 8,000 year by around 500 years. This date proves that there is only a slight loss of about 6 or 7% in Carbon-14 studies in the 8,000 year range. So your statement that exposure to radiation "invalidate" C-14 is not true.

 

[Autodidact]

Ice cores! Varves!

 

[Arlanbb]

NO NO NO......!!!!!!!!

Not "BEFORE and AFTER"

How about BEFORE.....DURING....and....AFTER...????????

YES Dirty Penguin I pointed that out in the sentence before and I happen to like colors like blue and red etc. for anyone who wants to know.

 

[rusra02]

Do you know how many species of animals are there in the world? millions. Let's assume there was only 1 million and Noah was collecting one species per minute.

There are 60 mins in an hour, so Noah was collecting 60 species per hour.

There are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, totaling to 525,600 mins or species.

1 million or 1,000,000 species of animal would have taken Noah more than 3 years to collect, assuming he would not stop for food, bathroom break, or sleep.

Where's your god now?

The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.
Some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

 

[rusra02]

What creationist liars are you plagiarizing, rusra? Give us the cite.

So in addition to rejecting all of Geology then, you also reject most of physics? Still trying to portray yourself as pro-science?

Did you notice that Arlann did not mention radiometric dating which, however, is accurate and works? The Egyptians kept written records. So when do you think the Egyptian kings of the 6th dynasty ruled, and on what do you base that opinion?

According to Bible chronology, the global Flood of Noah’s day occurred in 2370 B.C.E. Archaeologists have assigned dates earlier than this to numerous clay tablets they have excavated. But these clay tablets are not dated documents. Hence the dates that have been assigned to them are merely conjectural and provide no solid basis for establishing a relationship in time to the Biblical flood.