Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
No thanks. I know hundreds of people who believe as you do, and I know exactly how and why they believe. What I would be interested in is evidence.
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The flood in Genesis
- Thread starter Just_me_Mike
- Start date
No thanks. I know hundreds of people who believe as you do, and I know exactly how and why they believe. What I would be interested in is evidence.
Without getting into the problems with dendrochronology (tree-ring dating) and carbon 14 dating, suffice it to say they are far from reliable over a certain age.
Such dates presented with seeming authority are nothing more than guesses, and not reliable guesses. Those interested in learning more about the issues and problems with 'scientific' dating methods can google them.
I would urge all truth-seekers not to be bullied by the often abusive and condescending tone of those who attack the Bible's truthfulness. It is the same ploy that was used by Jesus opposers, who used intimidation and ridicule in their attempt to silence Christ and his followers. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
Phillip Johnson, a professor of criminal law at the University of California at Berkeley told the San Francisco Chronicle One of the things Ive learned from this experience (authoring a book on evolution) is that to establish an intellectual orthodoxy and keep it beyond criticism, you dont need concentration camps and secret police. All you have to do is say that people will laugh at you and youll lose your prestige."
When they cannot attack the veracity of what is said, they attack the sayer.
The truth that the flood occurred is an 'inconvenient truth' for many. Their resort to ridicule is therefore to be expected. (2 Peter 3:5-7)
IAMABELIEVER
Member
I believe in miracles but that isnt the same as magic. My response to you in trying to show that I have good reasons for believing the things I believe. My faith isn't blind as you might think. You really should finish watching the other two videos because it does get better in my opinion. I can understand your arguments against what I believe, so I am presenting some fact in these videos that should help you understand why I believe the way I do. It is ok if we disagree, but understanding each other is a good thing. From what I see a lot of people have no idea how a believer can believe in Jesus after seeing the evidence that science has to offer. But I do believe and I love what I believe. I see the world as it is and am in awe at the wonders that science has revealed, but my faith in God is even more awe inspiring.[FONT="][/FONT]
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Your inability to comprehend the evidence provided in this thread does nothing for you sir.
Over and over again we've explained the lunacy of believing in a global flood.
If you're so certain, perhaps you'd like to show me a soil profile from the Australian desert explaining the geological gaps (if you can find any), their relative age, the reason for excess iron oxide (which shouldn't be there because the flood washed it away) and the reason for a lack of dissolved oxygen in the sand (which should be there because water was once there right).
This shouldn't be hard at all since your studies in geology far exceed my own, and those of the well learnt members who've spent their time contributing to this thread
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Pure denial of sound logic is an insult to the human race.
:slap: stop it ...
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
IAMABELIEVER
Member
My side is doing wonderful and God is still doing miracles. I have personally seen some real miracles in the change God has brought into the lives of many people who have learned to put their trust in Him. A real relationship with Jesus is a very good thing. It is amazing how you see things differently when you really believe in the existence of God. All of a sudden the flood isnt such a big problem after all.[FONT="][/FONT]
IAMABELIEVER
Member
Yes I agree, but at least now you see that you are in denial. Smile.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Your faith is like a blindfold. Take it off and we can have an adult's discussion.
Given the current climate of this discussion, i will make an educated guess that i could waste hours trying to explain geology to you and you'd laugh it off.
Don't worry, wilful ignorance is not uncommon among the believers who embarrass themselves and theism in general in many cases and im certainly not expecting an educated discussion here.
IAMABELIEVER
Member
I have seen the evidence you might present if you had enough time, and yes I still have reasons to believe in God. My being able to see your reasons for what you believe makes it possible for me to have a discussion with you without ever getting upset because you won't see things my way. It is ok for us to disagree. I dont think you are an idiot because you dont see things the way I do, but I get the idea some people believe I am if I can believe in God. I really love being a believer who has no doubts concerning Gods existence. The flood is no problem either for me because I see evidence of the flood. [FONT="][/FONT]
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Well, obviously. I think the oldest tree ever is something like 4000+ years. Obviously, over that age, you can't count tree rings. Dug. Similarly, C14 dating is only used until about 50,000 years. After that, you have to use other kinds of radiometric dating. What's interesting is that the C14, and the tree rings, and the varves, and all recognized types of radiometric dating, and the stalagmites, and the corals...all agree. They reach the same result. How do you account for that?
Baloney. You obviously know nothing about it. If so, please explain why they all come out with the same results. They're all unreliable at the same rate in the same way?
I urge everyone to look at the evidence.
Well, if I was a lawyer trying to overthrow all of Biology without knowing anything about it, and if all the actual Biologists were laughing at me, I'd probably say that too.
Here's the thing. They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at Picasso. And they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. The fact that Phillip Johnson is an object of derision does not mean that he's right.
O.K., tell you what. Let's confine ourselves solely to the scientific evidence and see where that takes us, O.K.?
NO, it's just an obvious falsehood.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
What's the difference?
What are they?
How do you know what I think?
I've seen it all.
There's facts? Cool. What are they? Because my experience with creationists is that they tell a lot of lies.
I already know more about Creationism than you do, I assure you. I've been studying it for years.
Who's talking about Jesus? What on earth does Jesus have to do with it? I thought we were talking about a global flood. Try to stay on point.
And why would your beliefs be of interest here?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Really? In general, religious explanations of natural phenomena have held up? The world turned out to be flat? Rain comes from holes in the firmament? The sun can stand still in the sky? A person can live in a fish for three days? Disease is caused by demons? Leprosy can be cured with the blood of a bird?
I don't doubt that you can believe in a global flood, and a lot of other preposterous things. And I'm sure that believing in God makes that possible, just as those who believe in Zeus find it easy to believe that He throws thunderbolts down from Olympus.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
No, we cannot have an educated discussion.
You only "belive" there was a flood, against the mountain of evidence. I start to question the intelligence of people who cannot accept things right under their nose. It really pains me to have these discussions when a 10 year old has enough sense to destroy the flood myth.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
I'm still waiting to be shown a soil profile giving evidence of a great flood. Obviously both yours and my own combined knowledge of geology is inferior to their sound reasoning
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
IAMA:
What you're saying is that you believe in this mythical flood, regardless and in despite of all the evidence that it is physically impossible, because your religious faith requires you to do so. Given science on one hand, and magic on the other, you choose magic.
btw, if you (heaven forbid) contract say appendicitis, do you rely on prayer to cure you, or do you go to a doctor?
When you need to communicate with me, do you pray for me to receive your views, or do you sit down at a computer?
When you need to travel to a distant city, do you pray for wings, or buy a plane ticket?
If you need to know who won the game yesterday, do you pray for divine guidance, or do you look for evidence, such as the sports pages?
What you're saying is that you believe in this mythical flood, regardless and in despite of all the evidence that it is physically impossible, because your religious faith requires you to do so. Given science on one hand, and magic on the other, you choose magic.
btw, if you (heaven forbid) contract say appendicitis, do you rely on prayer to cure you, or do you go to a doctor?
When you need to communicate with me, do you pray for me to receive your views, or do you sit down at a computer?
When you need to travel to a distant city, do you pray for wings, or buy a plane ticket?
If you need to know who won the game yesterday, do you pray for divine guidance, or do you look for evidence, such as the sports pages?
IAMABELIEVER
Member
[FONT="] [/FONT] I was an atheist for many years and I think I can relate to the things you believe. I'm sure you have been studying creationism for many years, but I don't think you know more about Christianity than I do. I have been a Christian for over 20 years and believe me my faith faltered a few times in the early years.
The difference I see in magic and miracles is that magic depends on the user calling on some outside force to produce the magic. But God is the power behind miracles and no outside force can compare to Him. There is one God and He has created all things. What a miracle. How can a believer argue with people who will not consider anything that goes against what they believe they see? And being a Christian who believes that Jesus is God who came in the form of a man, I sometimes use His name when I talk about things concerning God. I can believe that Jesus is God, so the flood is a really small thing for me?
[FONT="] For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2 [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I'm skeptical.
If not, you're an exception. My experience is that I know more about Christianity than most Christians I meet. But in any case, why do you keep talking about Christianity and Jesus, which are irrelevant to this thread, which is about whether there has ever been a global flood?
You mean like God?
So if God does something, it's a miracle, but if Shiva does the same thing, it's magic?
Please don't preach, it's rude. If you want to make assertions, be prepared to back them up with evidence. If you can't, don't make them.
Please listen carefully to one word, and one word only: evidence. The way to argue with me successfully is to present compelling evidence. Not promises, not scare tactics, not Bible quotes, but evidence. That's the only thing that works with someone with an empirical world view like me.
Is there any chance of returning to the topic, evidence for and against a global flood? I know that you believe it despite all the evidence against it, which is not fascinating. How about this, we agree that all the evidence indicates there was never any such flood, but you believe it happened anyway. Sound fair and accurate?
IAMABELIEVER
Member
What I am saying is that I believe there was an actual flood that covered the whole earth. The video's I posted did a much better job than me in showing that there are indeed good reasons to believe in the flood, and that some scientists could be mistaken in how they view the evidence.
When I pray to God I just talk to Him the same way I would talk to you. That is what praying is, talking to God about things in our lives. I don't expect God to change every unpleasant thing that happens to me, but He can help me get through anything that the future might bring. His reasons for allowing the flood and all suffering are a part of God's plan that was in existence before the world was created. Nothing that has happened has taken God by surprise. It is all being recorded and the knowledge of the harm that our choices have caused will someday be used to bring an end to all suffering. Being able to understand what Gods reasons for the flood may have been makes it a whole lot easier to see the truth in the event.
Have a good night. [FONT="][/FONT]