The flood

[dallas1125]

I love how debates start off global and then when science comes forward they the supporters of flood myths turn to localized flooding to uphold biblical lore.

Hey I never believed in a global flood. The people that do believe that are the ones not in here.

This debate is advanced though.

Comeon fundamentallists where are you? Where are your biblically charged pages of devoid science

I doubt they will come. The know they cant prove it.

 

[darkendless]

Hey I never believed in a global flood. The people that do believe that are the ones not in here.

Exactly, RF is slowly learning that they will get fact bashed for even trying to suggest a global flood

There have been some interesting debates in the past over this subject, seriously lacking in observable facts and bulging with wilful and dogmatic ignorance.

You should search them if you're looking for a laugh

I doubt they will come. The know they cant prove it.

Its not an easy thing to prove. I can walk into my front garden and dig a 1m hole that could disprove Noah's flood based on some well known geological facts regarding sedimentation and layering.

Then it comes to the ark itself. Without taking a leap of faith and saying Go protected the Ark, how on earth would a wooden boat big enough to house that much life not break up? The moments (force per unit length) would ruin that thing in turbulent waters.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well I don't believe in a global flood either, nor necessarily even a local one that influenced the story. I said a local one was more believable. The global flood myth is not believable.

 

[outhouse]

Then it comes to the ark itself. Without taking a leap of faith and saying Go protected the Ark, how on earth would a wooden boat big enough to house that much life not break up? The moments (force per unit length) would ruin that thing in turbulent waters.

let alone the lack of o2 at 20 feet over the highest mountains as well as the fact they would all freeze

I know noah had central heating and air LOL and spacesuits for the elephants, he must have ate the dinosaurs, suckers never had a chance

 

[Rainbow Mage]

let alone the lack of o2 at 20 feet over the highest mountains as well as the fact they would all freeze

I know noah had central heating and air LOL and spacesuits for the elephants, he must have ate the dinosaurs, suckers never had a chance

He probably had to use the dinosaurs to keep everything fed. That was a lot of mouths. Sure not sure how he cleaned up after them all though.

 

[outhouse]

Sure not sure how he cleaned up after them all though.

thast easy the big animals were high up on the ship, there floors tilted towards the outside where a hole was cut so everything went right outside nice and neat LOL

 

[dallas1125]

I also wonder about a possible metaphorical story. Im not sure though.

 

[darkendless]

let alone the lack of o2 at 20 feet over the highest mountains as well as the fact they would all freeze

I know noah had central heating and air LOL and spacesuits for the elephants, he must have ate the dinosaurs, suckers never had a chance

Ok well heres a weak justification to show how geology 1337 i am.

Haha well i live right next to a former volcano (Mt. Warning) which blew up 200 million years ago. Behind the volcano approximately 100km's inland are the foothills of the Great dividing range which were uplifted more than 50 million years ago. Now the problem with all of this is that when the volcano blew its top, it sent bassalt everywhere which over time weathers into Argillite and a sandy clay which, when wet under extreme pressure (such as a heap of water) would be disturbed removing the layers creating a layer of mixed soil which would look like fill. However, to find fill in these regions would be close to impossible given that it needs to be moved there and no one lives there or goes out that way.

This is not to say that signs of flooding aren;t there. Marine clay contains sandstones and often a fine to medium grained sand which indicates a large volume flood a long time ago. However, foreign soil types are usually restricted to little speckles and less than 10% foreign matter.

In the case of a global flood, the permeability of soil over a very long time would create a suspension at the soil-air interface and completely disturb the top 400mm of soil making it look exactly like fill material and leave signs down to probably 1m (or the residual material which in Oz is often a clay with very very low permeability). Now, on top of that we would have new sediment which would be uniform.

The problem with this is that nowhere would we find more than 20mm-100mm of disturbed material underlying sediment because lets face it, it takes an enormous flood to disturb that much soil.

However, dig deeper (down to the residual soil usually 3-4m) and you will find shell matter as where i live used to be part of the continental shelf millions of years ago.

Soil doesn't lie as well as the bible does

 

[outhouse]

Ok well heres a weak justification to show how geology 1337 i am.

Haha well i live right next to a former volcano (Mt. Warning) which blew up 200 million years ago. Behind the volcano approximately 100km's inland are the foothills of the Great dividing range which were uplifted more than 50 million years ago. Now the problem with all of this is that when the volcano blew its top, it sent bassalt everywhere which over time weathers into Argillite and a sandy clay which, when wet under extreme pressure (such as a heap of water) would be disturbed removing the layers creating a layer of mixed soil which would look like fill. However, to find fill in these regions would be close to impossible given that it needs to be moved there and no one lives there or goes out that way.

This is not to say that signs of flooding aren;t there. Marine clay contains sandstones and often a fine to medium grained sand which indicates a large volume flood a long time ago. However, foreign soil types are usually restricted to little speckles and less than 10% foreign matter.

In the case of a global flood, the permeability of soil over a very long time would create a suspension at the soil-air interface and completely disturb the top 400mm of soil making it look exactly like fill material and leave signs down to probably 1m (or the residual material which in Oz is often a clay with very very low permeability). Now, on top of that we would have new sediment which would be uniform.

The problem with this is that nowhere would we find more than 20mm-100mm of disturbed material underlying sediment because lets face it, it takes an enormous flood to disturb that much soil.

However, dig deeper (down to the residual soil usually 3-4m) and you will find shell matter as where i live used to be part of the continental shelf millions of years ago.

Soil doesn't lie as well as the bible does

whats sad is i know allot of geology and I understood it all LOL

now im waiting for a creationist to show up and give us varve lessons :bow:

 

[dallas1125]

Well for one. YOUR ALL WRONG! ONLY GOD KNOWS THE TRUTH AND SCIENCE CANNOT DISPROVE GODS WORD!

Was that convincing? It seems to be the most of their arguments...

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Dallas well coming from an Anglican background I was taught the flood was a metaphor of Baptism, not a literal event, but I acknowledge it could be a local flood. That would make more sense.

 

[dallas1125]

Dallas well coming from an Anglican background I was taught the flood was a metaphor of Baptism, not a literal event, but I acknowledge it could be a local flood. That would make more sense.

Interesting, I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the insight.

 

[RedOne77]

Dallas well coming from an Anglican background I was taught the flood was a metaphor of Baptism, not a literal event, but I acknowledge it could be a local flood. That would make more sense.

The flood most likely was mythologized from the formation of the Black Sea some 7,500 years ago (Black Sea deluge theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). While it is still a debatable topic in academia, I think it is best explanation given. Usually in Hebrew and [Christian] scripture any story has metaphorical or moral/ethical/spiritual value even if such story can be read literally. It wasn't until recently did the literal vs. metaphorical approach become popular. Often the clergy of the time would extrapolate metaphorical explanations and either retain or not rule out a literal interpretation at the same time. Perhaps the best example is in Romans where Paul talks about the metaphorical significance of Abraham's two children, Issac and Ishmael yet upholds their literal existence. Another is when Paul compares and contrasts Adam and Christ; he obviously views Adam as significant in a metaphorical way yet neither rules out nor proclaims Adam's literal existence.

 

[David M]

What do you think? Am I wrong about anything? Did I miss anything?

You missed a few:

1) How did all the marine fish survive the massive reduction in salinity?
2) What did the herbivores eat while the plants were recolonising the salty mud on the new surface of the continents.
3) With only 2 (or 7) of each kind how did the carnivores and insectivores find enough food to survive while waiting for their prey species to breed.

 

[painted wolf]

What about the parasites? Something like four out of every five species is a parasite. Did Noah and his family carry two of every human parasite within themselves?

wa:do

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This thread is about whether there is evidence for the biblical flood and also whether the evidence points to evolution instead.

In Baha'i scriptures, the flood and the ark is a symbolic story. The flood represents the water of loving kindness, which comes as divine guidance.

The ark is the symbol of faith, whoever enters there in, would be saved from the perversities.

The Bible also calls the flood; "the breath of life":

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life..." Gen, 6:17

If it was a real flood, why the Bible says "the breath of life"?

The flash represents, the worldly desires and sins, which would be destroyed if people follow the divine guidance.

 

[Dan4reason]

In Baha'i scriptures, the flood and the ark is a symbolic story. The flood represents the water of loving kindness, which comes as divine guidance.

The ark is the symbol of faith, whoever enters there in, would be saved from the perversities.

The Bible also calls the flood; "the breath of life":

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life..." Gen, 6:17

If it was a real flood, why the Bible says "the breath of life"?

The flash represents, the worldly desires and sins, which would be destroyed if people follow the divine guidance.

Thats hilarious. The flood that wiped out practically the whole world and so it symbolizes the breath of life.

 

[RedOne77]

Thats hilarious. The flood that wiped out practically the whole world and so it symbolizes the breath of life.

Scripture teaches that we are dead in our sins, the death/destruction of wickedness while preserving godliness/righteousness would indeed be the breath of life from a religious standpoint. The same moral is seen when talking about Christ on the Cross; when you accept Christ you are suppose to die to yourself/your sins commonly referred to as dying on the Cross with Jesus, which is further expounded on in baptism ceremonies. Baptism symbolizes the death and Resurrection of Christ, in which the participant is supposed to die to themselves/sin and find the (everlasting) life in faith of God/Christ.

But I do agree mass genocide is an odd way of demonstrating "the breath of life". Perhaps it has to do more with philosophy regarding the nature of the human heart, proclaiming that we are vastly more evil than good shrug, than demonstrating God's idea of giving us life.

 

[painted wolf]

Scripture teaches that we are dead in our sins, the death/destruction of wickedness while preserving godliness/righteousness would indeed be the breath of life from a religious standpoint. The same moral is seen when talking about Christ on the Cross; when you accept Christ you are suppose to die to yourself/your sins commonly referred to as dying on the Cross with Jesus, which is further expounded on in baptism ceremonies. Baptism symbolizes the death and Resurrection of Christ, in which the participant is supposed to die to themselves/sin and find the (everlasting) life in faith of God/Christ.

But I do agree mass genocide is an odd way of demonstrating "the breath of life". Perhaps it has to do more with philosophy regarding the nature of the human heart, proclaiming that we are vastly more evil than good shrug, than demonstrating God's idea of giving us life.

I always thought it also showed that God is capable of growth and humility as well as man... at the end of the story God realizes that he over-reacted and makes a promise to never do such a thing again.

Given the time and the nature of other local gods, it makes the Biblical god a fairly progressive character.

wa:do

 

[Dezzie]

We do not see animals out of place. There are no tyrannosaurus with humans...

I did read somewhere that human fossils have been found in the same layers Dinosaurs have been found. I can't remember where I read that, but I did find this website:

Dinosaur and Human Co-existence: FOSSILS

Implications of Dino-human coexistence: EVOLUTION OBLITERATED!!!

Of course, I have no clue if this is true but eh... it was worth a post I think...

Maybe there are some animals out of place...

EDIT here is another site:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Fossils-Dinosaur-Bones---Humans-Lived-With-Jurassic-Dinosaurs?&id=3898578

This one says that apparently Evolutionists have said that the fossilized human prints discovered next to the Dinosaurs were "fakes". They said this because their theory would no longer be possible.