The flood

[sniper762]

outhouse, to noah, everything that he knew "as the entire earth' WAS flooded. we know differently today.

authors of the bible told stories and visions "as they perceived them".

modern educated man must be able to comprehend that and relate it accordingly.

to blanketly disbelieve the bible because one cant do that is his mental and spiritual defficiency.

 

[painted wolf]

outhouse, to noah, everything that he knew "as the entire earth' WAS flooded. we know differently today.

authors of the bible told stories and visions "as they perceived them".

modern educated man must be able to comprehend that and relate it accordingly.

to blanketly disbelieve the bible because one cant do that is his mental and spiritual defficiency.

Not to mention that the main means of teaching important cultural/religious concepts was through parables and morality plays.

Not that we are any different today.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

outhouse, to noah, everything that he knew "as the entire earth' WAS flooded. we know differently today.

authors of the bible told stories and visions "as they perceived them".

modern educated man must be able to comprehend that and relate it accordingly.

to blanketly disbelieve the bible because one cant do that is his mental and spiritual defficiency.

your missing the boat.

the whole bible is filled with storys with these same mistakes.

my take is the bible is all fiction based on a few small non fictional events that have very little truth to them.

in my opinion

so if it was a regional flood, you have the rainbow lie, you have the 40 day 40 night rain lie, of coarse you also need to know that back then 40 days just ment allot of days.

the ark would also be a lie, the animal story is a ie, covering there highest mountain is a lie because it didnt. The whole story is fiction like the rest of the bible. noah living over 800 years is a lie, god viciously murdering everone is a lie

The flood is fiction I agree

 

[outhouse]

modern educated man must be able to comprehend that and relate it accordingly.

well there is a huge problem because they dont!

they base the creation myth off genesis word for word.

if your saying thats fiction too?? then yes I not only agree I will state its fact that its fiction

 

[darkendless]

Even if the flood was only local would someone like to explain to me how a wooden ship as large as the Ark needed to be survived turbulent waters?

 

[ellenjanuary]

Something probably flooded. I heard there's all kinds of crap on the bottom of the Mediterranean; and I heard there might have been a glacier parked in the Strait of Gibraltar while people settled in the basin, and it broke up. And it wasn't pleasant. But there's flood stories from, I heard, fifty cultures; saying something flooded, destruction, yikes. I'd guess it was some local, but significant event. What I'm tempted to guess is that somebody back in the day was sailing across the seas in a regular fashion way before Columbus... way before Spain. And these travelers passed along these stories.

But I never followed a Biblical flood link that went anywhere but down the drain.

 

[Bereanz]

its fiction, do you really need to debate fiction ???

theres no evidence at all for a world wide flood, there never will be it is in fact impossible.

There is however a mountain of evidence it never happened nor could it have.

I will not dig evidence up for imagination, you can go find it yourself i donthave time for games related to fiction.

Why would you need a mountain of "evidence" to disprove fiction? If this mountain of evidence is so big, can you post some, so far Ive seen a pencil drawing with a few different colours that is supposed to refute a world wide deluge, although, from this very fine and neatly coloured in line drawing with various skeletal outlines, to me it would be quite clear that fish are at the bottom, given that they started at the bottom of the ocean, and humans at the top given that they where already on land? But I havent evolved that much yet, I'm a remnant of homoyoudont!

This thread is a scatolgists dream.

 

[sniper762]

If, if, if, if

 

[outhouse]

Why would you need a mountain of "evidence"

you dont need it, it is there none the less.

can you post some

if you believe the fictional event took place then it is you that needs to post evidence.

fact is it never happened so you have nothing.

If, if, if, if

That is the story of noah.

 

[outhouse]

Lets get some facts out there

there have been floods on the planet every year. a flood story could be true.

BUT not when you add all the fiction that was added to the noah tale. most of the OT is fiction to promote the man created jewish god ,,,in my opinion

 

[micrurus]

there have been lots of floods in biblical times because of volcanoes erupting. also the black sea was seperated from the mediteranian, partially drying out. when the 2 seas reconected water pourd in and land around the banks quickly dissapeared. those things must have left impressions dont you think.

 

[outhouse]

there have been lots of floods in biblical times because of volcanoes erupting. also the black sea was seperated from the mediteranian, partially drying out. when the 2 seas reconected water pourd in and land around the banks quickly dissapeared. those things must have left impressions dont you think.

yes but why add all the fiction? to promote a man made god?

 

[micrurus]

yes but why add all the fiction? to promote a man made god?

when stories pass over generations without being written town, they tend to change and become more elaborated, an experiment with todlers can even prove that.

 

[outhouse]

when stories pass over generations without being written town, they tend to change and become more elaborated, an experiment with todlers can even prove that.

I understand how storys change with time when told orally.

as for genesis it was told for 300-500 yeasr before it was written down.

mark of the NT was told 20-30 years before it was written down like the OT by unknown authors.

now the scholars will tell you religious oral tradition wont change that much. I dont believe it either.

 

[micrurus]

I understand how storys change with time when told orally.

as for genesis it was told for 300-500 yeasr before it was written down.

mark of the NT was told 20-30 years before it was written down like the OT by unknown authors.

now the scholars will tell you religious oral tradition wont change that much. I dont believe it either.

it was my understanding that the NT was written 60-100 years after christ his death. with the average life span in that time, that makes atleast 3 generations (also considering that people born just before jesus his death are not real witnesses).

now imagine that we have litle scientific understanding, alot more claims would be easyer excepted as true (like magic). now imagine that there is absolutley no record of the frensh revolution except for the storys that are told by witnesses.

1 thing is for sure, Napoleon would not be discribed as a small man.

 

[RedOne77]

yes but why add all the fiction? to promote a man made god?

In the near east it was common practice to combine fiction and non-fiction. It wasn't the narration but the purpose of the story that carried significance. An analogy I heard was take a story (like the flood, creation event, etc.) and when a western person hears it they will most likely ask something along the lines of 'wow, did that really happen?' Whereas a person from the east would most likely ask 'what is the meaning/moral of the story?'

So take the combining of mythology and literal events with an emphases on meaning, past down to the generations through oral traditions, and I can see how something like the formation of the Black Sea would give rise to the flood story.

You can see the same thing with Jesus in the NT. The earliest writings show Jesus as more human, humble, and the miracles performed are less extravagant. The later the writing the more it stresses Jesus' divine nature and the miracles become more elaborate. It's a common phenomena studied by the humanities.

 

[painted wolf]

Something probably flooded. I heard there's all kinds of crap on the bottom of the Mediterranean; and I heard there might have been a glacier parked in the Strait of Gibraltar while people settled in the basin, and it broke up. And it wasn't pleasant. But there's flood stories from, I heard, fifty cultures; saying something flooded, destruction, yikes. I'd guess it was some local, but significant event. What I'm tempted to guess is that somebody back in the day was sailing across the seas in a regular fashion way before Columbus... way before Spain. And these travelers passed along these stories.

But I never followed a Biblical flood link that went anywhere but down the drain.

Or lots of cultures had experiences with large local floods. Glacial lakes would have been quite common. There were at least two massive ones in the USA that let go.
Plenty of smaller ones that would be able to wipe out whole valleys.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

In the near east it was common practice to combine fiction and non-fiction. It wasn't the narration but the purpose of the story that carried significance. An analogy I heard was take a story (like the flood, creation event, etc.) and when a western person hears it they will most likely ask something along the lines of 'wow, did that really happen?' Whereas a person from the east would most likely ask 'what is the meaning/moral of the story?'

So take the combining of mythology and literal events with an emphases on meaning, past down to the generations through oral traditions, and I can see how something like the formation of the Black Sea would give rise to the flood story.

You can see the same thing with Jesus in the NT. The earliest writings show Jesus as more human, humble, and the miracles performed are less extravagant. The later the writing the more it stresses Jesus' divine nature and the miracles become more elaborate. It's a common phenomena studied by the humanities.

Thanks Red, I understand most of that I was asking to get his take on it all.

I did not undrstand how the eastern view was though.

 

[micrurus]

promote a man of god?

jesus was a preacher, which was a common profession at the time. professions have competition. the fact that jesus got baptised by johannas was actually because he was a follower of him. the story that simon tried to buy the holy spirit is an atempt to make the competition look bad. there ware lots of different profits and lots of young religeons competing but when a roman emparor becomes a cristian, you know who's gonna win.

 

[outhouse]

it was my understanding that the NT was written 60-100 years after christ his death

Many books were compiled into the NT much later then 60-100 years

mark is thought to be the youngest and its first book is thought to be 20-30 AD as to where john is 85-95AD with matthew and luke in the middle.

marcion compiled pauls letters and luke in the first bad attempt at creation of the NT around 150AD

constantine put called all the bishops together in 325AD to talk about how divine jesus was and he ordered a bishop who collected religious text to put together a book and supply 50 to him. we dont have copies of these books. theres 2 known but the 2 books differ and one is heavily fragmented and the other partially fragmented so its unknown if any of the original 50 survived.

I would think that if the new canonization differed from those 50 they would have been burned by the church, i have been told they would not have. just my opinion