Alright Trail, let's wrap this up.
It is not that God does not want you to know that He exists. God wants you to know, but God does not need you to know because God does not have any needs since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self-sustaining. We need God, God does not need us.
If God wants me to know, he's picked a crappy method that is obviously flawed, so he's gonna have to change it up. If he chooses not to, he guarantees I won't believe in him. His call.
The reason God wants you to know He exists is for your benefit, not for God’s benefit, because God does not need anything for Himself. I hope that makes sense.
I have no need for God, since the universe goes on as though he weren't there anyway. Again, if God wants to convince me he's there, he knows where to find me.
You are right that God does not want (I mean need) to be indisputably known and believed by everyone. If He did want that He would have made sure that He was known by everyone because He could do that since He is omnipotent.
Agreed. He has picked a crappy, inferior method that guarantees that everyone won't believe in him. Despite both wanting everyone to believe in him and being literally omnipotent...
Again, the clear as day conclusion here is that this arrangement is absurd.
That was in one of my quotes: ‘“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.”
Making men all one people means making all men believers.
The caveat is that God does want everyone to believe in Him, but God does not need everyone to believe in Him, because God has no needs. That is why if people choose to reject His Messengers it is no skin off His nose. God would like everyone to recognize His Messengers; otherwise, why would God send them? But God does not barter with humans so if they reject His Messengers He is not going to communicate some other way in order to garner their belief.
Then he's created a situation that ensures he won't be universally believed. No skin off my nose, either.
Of course, I have heard this argument before, many, many times.
Huh. It's almost as though many, many different people are trying to tell you something...
You can call it fundamentalism if you want to but it is not fundamentalism in the same sense as some sects of Christianity or Islam.
Yes, it is. The details are always slightly unique but it's the similarities to pay attention to. The logic you're using is perfectly analogous.
I have no problem with Baha’u’llah being infallible because I do not have a problem with authority.
Oh give me a break.
One of the great things about Millennials is that we've started to break down this unnecessary and counter-productive hierarchical work culture that our predecessors created. I have no problem following instructions and respecting people in authority; ask any of my ex-bosses. What I recognize, however, is that none of them are infallible. We are all human, we all have strengths and weaknesses and all make mistakes. A strong, productive work culture is one where employees can be collaborative with their supervisors and not stifle their ingenuity out of some authoritarian deference to their boss. Why some Boomers have such a hard time with this obviously beneficial change in mindset and culture I don't know. But I suspect it's very tied up in their versions of religion, too.
No, I wouldn’t want to because I realize that God is too powerful to approach directly.
Only by his choice. How many times must we tread this ground?
No, that is not what I meant to convey. This is difficult to explain because the Baha’i Faith is so different from all the older religions. In brief, Baha’u’llah made a binding Covenant with His followers and wrote a will and testament in which he passed along authority to his eldest son, Abdu’l-Baha who was the Centre of His Covenant. Then Abdu’l-Baha wrote a will and testament and he conferred authority upon His grandson, Shoghi Effendi. So they have the authority to explain the Writings of Baha’u’llah. It is not that we need them explained because we can read them and understand them, but they provided us with additional books to read that explain them in different ways and they answered the questions that Baha’is had after Baha’u’llah had died. Since the Guardian Shoghi Effendi died in 1957 the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) is now the head of the Baha’i Faith.
I'm gonna break something to you, friend. It's not that different from other religions. Christianity and Islam, as well as multiple subsects under those umbrella, have arrangements much like this. Sure, we have the Bible/Qur'an, but Jesus/Muhammad passed his authority and teachings on to others who now interpret and further explain them for the rest of us. The details are always slightly different in each case. The similarities are undeniable.
Wow, you finally ask the most important question!
I actually asked it before, but mkay sure...
The answer in brief is that we all have to demonstrate that to ourselves by doing a lot of research and reading the Writings, but once demonstrated it is obvious to us.
"Do lots of reading and research" is really not a method. I'm looking for a methodology, a way to tell the difference between a book written by just any other person and a book written by a deity.
If you really think about it, human beings (who also have a divine nature) are the only means for God to get a message to humans, since God cannot show up Himself.
No.
No. No. No.
We've been over this. There is no "cannot" with an omnipotent being. He
chooses not to show up himself.
I was waiting for that and I am on the same page as you are. I do not think we can know if God has communicated something to our minds, not like a Messenger can know, and we can easily delude ourselves if we think we know.
How can a Messenger know, any more than you? Again, I'm looking for a methodology.
I am glad you are finally coming to realize this and maybe you can come to understand that it is really a good thing for us to have a go-between, not a bad thing. I like having my attorney in between me and a tenant, so I do not have to deal with him directly.
You need an attorney to talk to God? Are you afraid he's going to screw you? Overcharge you? What a weird conception of God.
