The Four Dirty Secrets Against Darwin Evolution

[TagliatelliMonster]

Goal post moved because gnostic moved the goalpost. My answer to him/her was in context of what he was talking about... so to bring his point into your point is mixing milk with vinegar.

So... unless you want to change the subject within your context... you will have to let me know and I will redirect my answers.

Good job ignoring every point raised in the post you're replying to.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny

I was trying to follow your line of thought, Kenny.

You started off with your experience with mice, your example. Then you had followed this example with the rest of your post:



Since you shared your experience in your wife’s home about mice freely running about the property, followed by this question “Does the miraculous actually defy the natural?” How else should I respond to your post?

you were the who gave your example following up with question about miracle. Isn’t it your fault for my misunderstanding by you posing questions with unrelated and irrelevant example?

And just how is your example is the “natural spiritual higher law”?

I saw nothing spiritual about your example, nor higher than natural law.

#396
An example of a higher law - but I suppose that, in your case, you would need someone there recording it. True?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

#396
An example of a higher law -

How is that a "law"?

but I suppose that, in your case, you would need someone there recording it. True?

No. That would just be another unverifiable claim.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

#396
An example of a higher law -

How is that a "law"?

but I suppose that, in your case, you would need someone there recording it. True?

No. That would just be another unverifiable claim.

 

[Kenny]

How is that a "law"?

This world is govern by laws. Spiritual laws are part of it.

No. That would just be another unverifiable claim.

Exactly!! That's pretty much why I don't put to much effort in trying to convince someone.

Paul expressed it this way to which I agree: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Because you don't agree with the spiritual side of life, you won't accept anything that deals with the spiritual. For you, I would say, it would be foolish or folly

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This world is govern by laws. Spiritual laws are part of it.

Please stop simply repeating your claims and instead actually answer the question for once.

How is that a "law"?
What is a "spiritual law" and how is it different / distinguishable from regular laws?

Exactly!! That's pretty much why I don't put to much effort in trying to convince someone.

Because you have nothing but unverifiable claims?

Paul expressed it this way to which I agree: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Because you don't agree with the spiritual side of life, you won't accept anything that deals with the spiritual. For you, I would say, it would be foolish or folly

You can say the exact same thing about ANYTHING that is magical and has no evidence.

You are not able to understand scientology's dianetics, because you are not "clear" and thus can't connect with your inner thetan.
You are not able to understand voodoo because you are not in touch with the spirits that make it work.
etc

I bet you instantly recognize the fallacy and absurdity in those statements while being utterly unable to see the exact same fault in your own statement.


Essentially, in other words, what you are saying here is that your justification for your belief is the fact that you believe it.

I'm so sorry that you seem unable to realize how irrational that is.

 

[Kenny]

Please stop simply repeating your claims and instead actually answer the question for once.

How is that a "law"?
What is a "spiritual law" and how is it different / distinguishable from regular laws?

Is there a "mind over matter" law? Is there a law of "lift"? Is there a law of action/reaction? There are laws where the spiritual affects the natural.

Because you have nothing but unverifiable claims?

Jesus said that even if someone saw a miracle it wouldn't change one's viewpoint if they have settled it in their hearts. (paraphrased)

The Catholic Church, for an example, goes through extensive research before categorizing something as a miracle. Can I assume that this wouldn't be sufficient evidence for you?

Or, if there was a miraculous healing, can I assume that you would simply say "There is a scientific reason for that happening"... like "spontaneous regeneration" even if the medical profession doesn't know why?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Is there a "mind over matter" law? Is there a law of "lift"? Is there a law of action/reaction? There are laws where the spiritual affects the natural.

You still fail to answer the question.
If you can't answer it, just say so instead of wasting both our time.

Jesus said that even if someone saw a miracle it wouldn't change one's viewpoint if they have settled it in their hearts. (paraphrased)

The Catholic Church, for an example, goes through extensive research before categorizing something as a miracle. Can I assume that this wouldn't be sufficient evidence for you?

I'm aware of their "research".
Yes, I can confirm that such is nothing but a bad joke and it wouldn't be sufficient even for those same theists if it would concern any other subject.

That these people hold such obvious double standards is not my problem.

You are most welcome to take any single example of such a "research" instance and we can discuss it in detail. I will be more then happy to point out to you how it is depressingly inadequate.

But considering how you have a habbit to go through great lengths to NEVER put your money where your mouth is, I'm guessing you won't.

Or, if there was a miraculous healing, can I assume that you would simply say "There is a scientific reason for that happening"... like "spontaneous regeneration" even if the medical profession doesn't know why?

Fallacious arguments from ignorance are not impressive to me, correct.
When it is unknown how something occurs, then it is unknown. Not "miraculous".

Tell me... when there is such a "healing". How then is it established that it is a "miraculous" thing?
Or is "we don't know how" synonymous to you with "it's miraculous"?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Different forms: There are provision miracles, healing miracles, financial miracles, et al... different forms.


that is true.

Back in the day when there was such a thing as an electronic machine called "Canon electronic memory typewriters" that could be dubbed as a printer, I had just accepted Jesus as Lord and realized that the current job that I had was no longer a place to remain. As an assistant manager awaiting a store to manage, I came to the conclusion that I could either be married to my job or married to my wife and find out about this God that just transformed me.

An opportunity arose for me to sell those machines as a commission-only contract. Having had a steady income for the previous 10 years, it was a daunting consideration. I didn't know if I was a salesman. The manager of the company was OK with me trying it out on my weekday off. (Grocery chain meant weekends and holidays).

I was asking God to show me or tell me whether or not this was the door of opportunity that He wanted me to take. Arriving in the city of Vero Beach, Fl, I stopped at a L-shaped strip-mall. Parked, got out of my car, grabbed the $2100 - $3,000 piece of machinery and started walking toward the businesses. Half way to the businesses I thought to myself "These small businesses can't afford this piece of equipment!" so I turned around to go back to my car.

As I walked back, I just closed my eyes with a song of praise on my lips for a few seconds and as I did that, I saw letters in an arc shape. Call it a vision, I don't know what else to call it. I turned around and noticed where the legs of the L-shape met, there was an insurance business with the lettering of the business was in an arc shape. The only business with lettering in an arc shape.

I went to the business and found out they were about to close on a competitors electronic typewriter. They bought mine.

Placebo? Don't think so... happens too many times
Chance? Don't think so... not with a vision of arc shaped letters

Of course, someone else can throw this historical event as trash... but for me, I would prefer continuing to live a life full of miracles as there are many instances of things like unto this.

Okay, so help me out with something ...

At any point in time, somewhere in the world, there is a starving child, and a mother of that child, perhaps living in a war zone, facing death head-on on a day-to-day basis, wondering where their next meal will come from and if they'll live to see tomorrow. These poor people are desperately praying to god, please, please help us live; help us find a safe place to live and some food, please keep my child alive.

So god is sitting up in heaven, wondering who to help out today. And then you come along. And you, living in a free and peaceful society, not starving to death, not facing sudden death, even if you don't sell a typewriter, etc. So this god sends you "letters in an arc shape" so you could be drawn to an insurance business that you could sell a typewriter to?

That poor starving kid a in war zone? God lets him die. And his mother. But you got to sell a typewriter.

I have to wonder, what kind of messed up priorities does this "loving" god actually have? It's almost like he's made up, or something.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I answered that... when something goes beyond the natural



Not really... just acknowledging placebo effect.

It defies the natural. How often do you get a vision like that? Is that natural? and so many others that eliminates the potential placebo effect.

How do you get a vision like that? Perhaps you stared at the actual arches for a few seconds, and they temporarily caused the cells in your retinas to be saturated with pigment, as is known to happen naturally with eyesight.

Seems pretty mundane to me.

 

[Kenny]

How do you get a vision like that? Perhaps you stared at the actual arches for a few seconds, and they temporarily caused the cells in your retinas to be saturated with pigment, as is known to happen naturally with eyesight.

Seems pretty mundane to me.

Obviously EVERY business is about to by a competitors electronic typewriter at that very moment and every business has arc shaped letters...

Got it... just my eyesight.

 

[YoursTrue]

Kenny

I was trying to follow your line of thought, Kenny.

You started off with your experience with mice, your example. Then you had followed this example with the rest of your post:



Since you shared your experience in your wife’s home about mice freely running about the property, followed by this question “Does the miraculous actually defy the natural?” How else should I respond to your post?

you were the who gave your example following up with question about miracle. Isn’t it your fault for my misunderstanding by you posing questions with unrelated and irrelevant example?

And just how is your example is the “natural spiritual higher law”?

I saw nothing spiritual about your example, nor higher than natural law.

Go back to Einstein and explain gravity with all the in's and out's of his spacetime theory, ok?

 

[Subduction Zone]

This world is govern by laws. Spiritual laws are part of it.

Sorry, you would need to show that there are such things as "spiritual laws'. I do not know of any valid source that supports that claim Perhaps you do.

Exactly!! That's pretty much why I don't put to much effort in trying to convince someone.

Paul expressed it this way to which I agree: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

That is just a defensive verse used by a person that knows that he is spewing bull****. You should know that by now. Paul knew that he has been caught telling lies and that was the way that he defended against those claims.

Because you don't agree with the spiritual side of life, you won't accept anything that deals with the spiritual. For you, I would say, it would be foolish or folly

Once again, if you want to claim that there is a "spiritual side" you need to define it properly and support that claim. No Christian appears to be able to do either of those things. Why, it is almost as if they made everything up.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Go back to Einstein and explain gravity with all the in's and out's of his spacetime theory, ok?

To what purpose? Why do you make these silly demands?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Obviously EVERY business is about to by a competitors electronic typewriter at that very moment and every business has arc shaped letters...

Huh? Who said any such thing? The arches you saw were actually there, correct?

Got it... just my eyesight.

Yes, eyesight is known to do that. Go stare at a light for a few minutes then take a look around and you'll see spots and outlines of stuff.

Please tell me this wasn't your serious response to my post.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Huh? Who said any such thing? The arches you saw were actually there, correct?

Yes, eyesight is known to do that. Go stare at a light for a few minutes then take a look around and you'll see spots and outlines of stuff.

Please tell me this wasn't your serious response to my post.

It was his best "evidence". Sorry, he has nothing more than an event that he reinterpreted after the fact that matched what he wanted to believe in the first place.

 

[Kenny]

Huh? Who said any such thing? The arches you saw were actually there, correct?

Yes, eyesight is known to do that. Go stare at a light for a few minutes then take a look around and you'll see spots and outlines of stuff.

Please tell me this wasn't your serious response to my post.

you are true to your name!!! you are faithful!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Obviously EVERY business is about to by a competitors electronic typewriter at that very moment and every business has arc shaped letters...

Got it... just my eyesight.

These types of things are actually just mundane psychological quirks.

Comparable to the notion that is described by the saying "speak of the devil..."
Dozens of times everyday, you think or talk about or refer to people that are not present.
Every few days / weeks (so every few 100 times you do such), that person unexpectedly shows up (in person, on a photograph, on the phone, in the mail,...).

And from there, people interpret that as something like "strange how every time you think or talk about somebody, suddenly they show up" as if it is some form of telepathy or requires some type of "special" explanation.

But it's just a matter of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.
That one coincidence is what you remember. And the hundreds of times it doesn't happen, you don't remember.


We see this type of thing in all kinds of ways and settings.
Like for example in that James Randi show where he "tests" the supposed "supernatural" abilities of people.
There was this one episode where he tests the skills of a supposed sceance reader who can speak to the dead.
You know the drill... there's an audience and the "reader" begins: "I feel a name... Will... William... Willy...Willhelm..." until someone bites.
After the "reading", James asked a few questions to one of the people who responded and was amazed at how "accurate" the reading was.

He asked him how many names the reader called out before she got it right. His response was "3 or 4".
In reality, it was over 40.

It's just a case of selective memory. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

 

[Kenny]

These types of things are actually just mundane psychological quirks.

Comparable to the notion that is described by the saying "speak of the devil..."
Dozens of times everyday, you think or talk about or refer to people that are not present.
Every few days / weeks (so every few 100 times you do such), that person unexpectedly shows up (in person, on a photograph, on the phone, in the mail,...).

And from there, people interpret that as something like "strange how every time you think or talk about somebody, suddenly they show up" as if it is some form of telepathy or requires some type of "special" explanation.

But it's just a matter of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.
That one coincidence is what you remember. And the hundreds of times it doesn't happen, you don't remember.


We see this type of thing in all kinds of ways and settings.
Like for example in that James Randi show where he "tests" the supposed "supernatural" abilities of people.
There was this one episode where he tests the skills of a supposed sceance reader who can speak to the dead.
You know the drill... there's an audience and the "reader" begins: "I feel a name... Will... William... Willy...Willhelm..." until someone bites.
After the "reading", James asked a few questions to one of the people who responded and was amazed at how "accurate" the reading was.

He asked him how many names the reader called out before she got it right. His response was "3 or 4".
In reality, it was over 40.

It's just a case of selective memory. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

Jesus said that even if someone saw a miracle it wouldn't change one's viewpoint if they have settled it in their hearts. (paraphrased)

The Catholic Church, for an example, goes through extensive research before categorizing something as a miracle. Can I assume that this wouldn't be sufficient evidence for you?

Or, if there was a miraculous healing, can I assume that you would simply say "There is a scientific reason for that happening"... like "spontaneous regeneration" even if the medical profession doesn't know why?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

blabla

Another perfect example of circular confirmation bias coupled with argument from ignorance.
Also another perfect example of you ignoring the actual points raised.

I already addressed that nonsense. You ignored that reply as well.