The Four Horsemen

[oldbadger]

Jews were murdering Christians in Roman territory and without the Roman Prefect's consent. The Christian Stephen that was robbed and murdered is an example. Rome was aware of how violent and murderous the Jews were as Jews were slaughtering people for leaving their religion & not supporting the Jewish religious laws.
That religion was set up like a Mafia gang, people were killed for not believing their religion, people were killed once in their religion with the priests demanding money or die (so many lost their life for just being poor unable to pay for not being murdered), and people were killed for leaving their religion.
Rome without witnesses to the murders willing to stand up in a court of law to testify against the Jews, the Roman court knew they had no legal basis to punish a Jew for murder. Jesus had become famous in the territory. Many Romans had converted to his religion as well as Jews. Jews knew killing Jesus would have a dramatic response from the public and turn the Roman court into an investigation of the Jewish government that had repeatedly threatened to kill Jesus in front of groups of witnesses to their threats of murder. Jews did not want Rome to demand they disband as a religion/nation. Jesus was demanding it because their religious beliefs were wrong. Jews thought killing Jesus would stop people from leaving their religion. So many had left the Temple that priests were going broke from lack of blood sacrifice money. So the Jews wanted the death of Jesus to be done "legally", as they lied in the court of law then demanded the Romans kill Jesus after he was judged innocent so it would appear to the public as if Rome supported the Jews and not Jesus as their court decision.
Paul is an unrepentant liar as he mixes truth with fiction, and it is difficult to discern to what level his deception is in each of his accounts. He is not found in the kingdom of heaven, those that follow Paul are found in the house of Judas with other people that uphold the pagan ritual of human sacrifice to a God for a reward.

I don't bother with Paul.
The Jews were not killing Christians!
The Jews were never the bad guys, it had been the priesthood that had wanted Jesus gone.

 

[oldbadger]

I know what's written. To go beyond what's written, is to speculate and assume.

You know what's written?
On what day of that last week did Jesus and disciples wreck the money changing bazaar?

 

[nPeace]

You know what's written?
On what day of that last week did Jesus and disciples wreck the money changing bazaar?

Which scripture are you referring to?

 

[danieldemol]

Yipes, to me the point is being missed that Jesus will do away with violent people - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15.
Even under the Mosaic Law it was: equal justice. Tire slashing is not equal to murder.
At the time of Jesus' coming Glory Time (Matthew 25:31-33) Jesus judges who is a figurative humble 'sheep' or who is a haughty 'goat'.
I find nothing violent about loving neighbor MORE than self as Jesus teaches at John 13:34-35.
Please notice it is wicked people who are 'destroyed forever' at Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Violent people need to 'repent' so a not to 'perish' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

So non violent non-Jehovah's Witnesses do not need to repent so as not to 'perish'?

Or are you simply equating non-JWs to violent people?

In my opinion.

 

[Triumph]

I don't bother with Paul.
The Jews were not killing Christians!
The Jews were never the bad guys, it had been the priesthood that had wanted Jesus gone.

All humans can choose not to support a tyrant. They can refuse to pay him money, refuse to obey his laws and they can refuse to fight for him thus destroying his power. Jews had the option of walking away to join a group with merciful laws and beliefs. Jews kept the High Priest in power. The High Priest wasn't doing the bloody murders, his supporters were as they obeyed his commands because they wanted to obey his commands by their freedom of choice decisions, so yes, they were the bad guys willing to kill people that did not agree with their religion. Read the OT, David even enjoyed having his army kill more people than was necessary to win a battle and David enjoyed the satanic ritual of mutilating the dead.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So non violent non-Jehovah's Witnesses do not need to repent so as not to 'perish'? Or are you simply equating non-JWs to violent people? In my opinion.

2 Peter 3:9 applies to everyone. period.
The choice is given to everyone to ' repent ' from what God says is wrong or one will ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).

 

[danieldemol]

2 Peter 3:9 applies to everyone. period.
The choice is given to everyone to ' repent ' from what God says is wrong or one will ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).

Exactly, follow Jesus religion or be destroyed, it is evidently an unacceptable violence.

In my opinion.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't bother with Paul. The Jews were not killing Christians!
The Jews were never the bad guys, it had been the priesthood that had wanted Jesus gone.

True, the corrupted priesthood used the Romans to do their dirty work ( execute Jesus ).
However, there is No need to ignore Acts of the Apostles 3:14-15 ' ye men of Israel ' because according to Deuteronomy 21:1-9 they were held responsible for 'community responsibility' because they failed to bring Jesus to justice, thus those Jews were culpable especially because they chose Barabbas - Matthew 27:20; Luke 23:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Exactly, follow Jesus religion or be destroyed, it is evidently an unacceptable violence. In my opinion.

I suppose you are Not alone in your thinking but please notice the difference between the figurative humble 'sheep' and the haughty 'goats' at Jesus' coming Glory Time found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Jesus' religion, the 'Law of Christ' (Galatians 6:2) includes having self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
Self-sacrificing love for others is Not violence, but the lack of violence. - John 13:34-35

 

[danieldemol]

I suppose you are Not alone in your thinking but please notice the difference between the figurative humble 'sheep' and the haughty 'goats' at Jesus' coming Glory Time found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Jesus' religion, the 'Law of Christ' (Galatians 6:2) includes having self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
Self-sacrificing love for others is Not violence, but the lack of violence. - John 13:34-35

I'm sorry but self sacrificing love for others and killing those who do not follow your religion in all its arbitrary tenets are mutually exclusive.

That you believe they are the same is evidence you have been sold a lie.

In my opinion.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm sorry but self sacrificing love for others and killing those who do not follow your religion in all its arbitrary tenets are mutually exclusive..................

I find there is a BIG difference between killing, murder and an execution for the sake of righteousness.
Only the wicked will be destroyed (executed) as per Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
People are always warned before God takes such action.
People choose whether to be a figurative 'sheep' or a 'goat ' - Matthew 25:31-33,37

 

[Triumph]

Exactly, follow Jesus religion or be destroyed, it is evidently an unacceptable violence.

In my opinion.

Jesus is a religious pacifist with no desire to kill people. Kings do not want a nation of pacifists because they will not fight to keep that king on his throne. However, Jesus does support self-defense but never first strike. If no one makes a first strike, then war ceases to exist.
People do not understand what they read in the Bible, so they think Jesus is a killer because they do not hear his words. His message is defending yourself as a last resort and avoid conflict if possible. Jesus is not returning to kill anyone. False religions based on belief in Abraham and their concept of a killer, military Christ are going to kill each other.

 

[GardenLady]

I find there is a BIG difference between killing, murder and an execution for the sake of righteousness.
Only the wicked will be destroyed (executed) as per Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
People are always warned before God takes such action.
People choose whether to be a figurative 'sheep' or a 'goat ' - Matthew 25:31-33,37

so, the “wicked” includes not only those who victimize others or engage in cheating, assault, and murder. It also includes as “wicked” those who feed the hungry, help the poor, love their neighbors, but don’t happen to have the right theology?

 

[F1fan]

So they claim. I see you support their claim.
I do agree that those you described earlier, do help a bit, but that's because they, like you, believe they are smart, and like you, don't know how to tell the difference between a heathen, and a Christian.

Perhaps you are? Do you declare yourself a good Christian? Explain the criteria.

No wonder Jesus used the illustration at Matthew 7:15
Many "smart" people walk around will the wool pulled over their eyes... and they claim they know...

Are you trying to confess something?

 

[F1fan]

There are also, as Jesus said, many false prophets. I think they account for something, don't you?
It's quite obvious that just as there is fake money, fake doctors, fake policemen, fake... There are also fake believers, who believe false doctrines.

You forgot televangelists.

 

[Triumph]

so, the “wicked” includes not only those who victimize others or engage in cheating, assault, and murder. It also includes as “wicked” those who feed the hungry, help the poor, love their neighbors, but don’t happen to have the right theology?

A thermonuclear missile does not care what a persons theology is. Live in a target city, all will die. Jesus came to save the entire world and all life in it, not just Jews. Jesus is not a "prince of kings" and warned men would come in his name, Jesus Christ, and that prince has nothing in him. The true Jesus Christ is not a killer and is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is a loving man with mercy.
People that use a thermonuclear sword then die from the results of using it. 7 nuclear empowered nations fight in the upcoming final man made war. At one point I thought that the war could be stopped if enough people understood what the Bible reveals, but now I know it cannot. People love traditions more than truth and fiction more than reality.

 

[oldbadger]

Which scripture are you referring to?

You either know what Jesus did or you don't.
Or......are you telling that there are differing reports about the last week on the gospels?

 

[oldbadger]

Jews had the option of walking away to join a group with merciful laws and beliefs.

Do you actually think that Christians had merciful laws and beliefs? Just check out history.

Jesus had nothing to do with anything that happened after that last week in Jerusalem. He never knew anything about the names Christ, Christian, etc. He had been a Jew demonstrating hard for Jewish working classes ( there was no middle class), fair Temple practices and especially for the poor and poor laws.
It's all there on the gospels.

 

[oldbadger]

True, the corrupted priesthood used the Romans to do their dirty work ( execute Jesus ).

Agreed. Absolutely.

However, there is No need to ignore Acts of the Apostles 3:14-15 ' ye men of Israel ' because according to Deuteronomy 21:1-9 they were held responsible for 'community responsibility' because they failed to bring Jesus to justice, thus those Jews were culpable especially because they chose Barabbas - Matthew 27:20; Luke 23:18.

I acknowledge your beliefs about all of that, but my journey did end very early on in Acts.
And Yes, the people had always loved Barabbas. His first name was Jesus but this was removed after the earliest bibles. They never would desert Jesus Barabbas, welcomed him to Jerusalem, supported the riots in the temple.....the lot.
His name was hidden in plain sight using his own language, eastern Aramaic which most early Christians would have missed, just as Christians do today.
Jesus Bar (son of) Abbas (the Father) .....Jesus Son of the Father.

 

[Triumph]

Do you actually think that Christians had merciful laws and beliefs? Just check out history.

Jesus had nothing to do with anything that happened after that last week in Jerusalem. He never knew anything about the names Christ, Christian, etc. He had been a Jew demonstrating hard for Jewish working classes ( there was no middle class), fair Temple practices and especially for the poor and poor laws.
It's all there on the gospels.

History? People that believe Paul is an Apostle are NOT Christians even though they claim they are. Their actions do not reflect the gospel of Jesus.