The Future Of Israel

[Jimmy]

The Arabs lack the power to solve the fundamental problem,
ie, violent resistance to Israel's brutal regime & theft of more land.
USA enables Israel's apartheid, torture, murder, kidnapping, theft,
& now genocide. This makes Israel most powerful country by far
in the region by far. So steps to peace must begin with Israel.

Iran might become fully involved and it might turn into a broader war. Hopefully not

 

[Godobeyer]

The more I read about the history in the Middle East, the more it becomes clear that Israel has been surrounded by people that have hated them for a very long time. I think October 7th. made that clear. It’s always perceived like Israel is the bad guy by Palestinian supporters, but one needs to look deeper. The Jewish people are living amongst some pretty sick radicals. The future looks bleak for that region of the world but thankfully God has other plans.

Since you don't realized why people hated Israel that's won't help to understand the main problem.
Which is Israel is racist regime should be fought by whole world same as Nazi.

Don't ever talk in mouth of God.
God is won't allow killing 40 thousands innocent by His name. for pro-israel whom justify their crimes.
God is not evil or racist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Iran might become fully involved..

..and are not Arabs .. nether are Asian Muslims.
You don't even have to be a Muslim to recognize the injustice.

..it's a case of the Western plan for Israel MUST NOT FAIL .. and dehumanize any resistance,
or unfairness as collateral damage.

A very bad plan, in the sight of God .. He sees all, and knows who is really to blame.

 

[Jimmy]

The Arabs lack the power to solve the fundamental problem,
ie, violent resistance to Israel's brutal regime & theft of more land.
USA enables Israel's apartheid, torture, murder, kidnapping, theft,
& now genocide. This makes Israel most powerful country by far
in the region by far. So steps to peace must begin with Israel.

Steps to peace must begin with Iran too

 

[Revoltingest]

Steps to peace must begin with Iran too

Iran won't begin discussion peace as long as
it's under continual attack by Israel & USA.
And not as long as Israel is killing, torturing,
robbing, & generally denying justice to the
Palestinians....which is the source of hatred
for Israel, & spills over to USA.

It's somewhat analogous to peace in Ukraine.
Many call for Ukraine to negotiate peace.
The real source is Russia's invasion....thus the
onus for seeking peace is on Russia.

 

[Jimmy]

Iran won't begin discussion peace as long as
it's under continual attack by Israel & USA.
And not as long as Israel is killing, torturing,
robbing, & generally denying justice to the
Palestinians....which is the source of hatred
for Israel, & spills over to USA.

It's somewhat analogous to peace in Ukraine.
Many call for Ukraine to negotiate peace.
The real source is Russia's invasion....thus the
onus for seeking peace is on Russia.

Well hopefully Israel can stop all that and seek peace

 

[Revoltingest]

Well hopefully Israel can stop all that and seek peace

That doesn't seem a mindset they'll adopt anytime soon.
Perhaps they need to be devastated by war, & also cause
USA some big losses before reality demands negotiating
justice & peace.
Israel is its own & USA's worst enemy.

 

[Jimmy]

That doesn't seem a mindset they'll adopt anytime soon.
Perhaps they need to be devastated by war, & also cause
USA some big losses before reality demands negotiating
justice & peace.
Israel is its own & USA's worst enemy.

That’s a possibility. Hopefully not though. Change will ultimately happen.

 

[Revoltingest]

That’s a possibility. Hopefully not though. Change will ultimately happen.

Change is inexorable.
I favor pursuing peace rather than blame & vengeance,
which is the mainstream Zionist motive.
Their delusional belief that they can eliminate their
enemy if they just kill enuf Arabs in the region is
doomed to fail. It only creates more enemies.

 

[Jimmy]

Change is inexorable.
I favor pursuing peace rather than blame & vengeance,
which is the mainstream Zionist motive.
Their delusional belief that they can eliminate their
enemy if they just kill enuf Arabs in the region is
doomed to fail. It only creates more enemies.

Pursuing peace first always.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Doesn’t matter.

Yeah. Uhu.
And this is one of the reasons why there is no end in sight of that conflict.

Israel is surrounded by terrorists that want them gone.

Djee, I wonder why.

 

[Godobeyer]

Israel regime is threatened to all humanity because it's racist idealogy based on racist beliefs of the Chosen people which make the chosen evils.

Israel regime most dangerous to human beings same as Nazis.

 

[Quagmire]

When you start a colonial project where your goal is to established a Jewish state, whereby its a necessity to have a majority of Jews. And when you decide to ethnic cleanse almost a million Palestinians then you shouldn’t be surprised that you are surrounded by people that wants you gone.

Goldmann reported that Ben Gurion had told him in private in 1956

Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?

I would say that's a pretty understanding attitude for a leader to hold towards his nations enemies.

And I don't think it should be taken to mean that he agrees with that perspective.

 

[Quagmire]

The more I look into the history of the conflict the more convinced I become that anyone who wholly supports one side or the other probably hasn't.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The more I look into the history of the conflict the more convinced I become that anyone who wholly supports one side or the other probably hasn't.

God is on the side of the oppressed .. He was on the side of Moses and the Children of Israel,
and not Pharaoh and his army.

..and that is one reason why they were initially supported by the West .. due to the Holocaust,
and seeing Israel as a compensation for their persecution.

However, their ambitions seem to have grown out of control. They have a policy of increasing
Jewish population through immigration, at the expense of their own non-Jewish citizens, and those
of UN disputed territory.
This is leading to increasing resentment in the region, and seriously threatens global security.

Blaming millions of Muslims as "unreasonable" or "extremist" or "terrorist" or "Islamist" is not
going to solve these issues. It only results in increasing destabilization of Africa, Asia and Europe..
..which of course results in WW, as we know from history.

 

[Quagmire]

God is on the side of the oppressed .. He was on the side of Moses and the Children of Israel,
and not Pharaoh and his army.

..and that is one reason why they were initially supported by the West .. due to the Holocaust,
and seeing Israel as a compensation for their persecution.

However, their ambitions seem to have grown out of control. They have a policy of increasing
Jewish population through immigration, at the expense of their own non-Jewish citizens, and those
of UN disputed territory.
This is leading to increasing resentment in the region, and seriously threatens global security.

Blaming millions of Muslims as "unreasonable" or "extremist" or "terrorist" or "Islamist" is not
going to solve these issues. It only results in increasing destabilization of Africa, Asia and Europe..
..which of course results in WW, as we know from history.

I think we'd all be better off if we left religion out of the equation.

But we know that's not going to happen.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I think we'd all be better off if we left religion out of the equation.

But we know that's not going to happen.

Well, you can't .. it's reality.
We all have beliefs, even if they are secular.

The main point, is that one side is not automatically right, because of the religion/belief system
that they follow.
Nations rise and fall .. sometimes they have the moral high ground, and sometimes they don't.

The only thing that could have solved the Middle East cauldron, is if the US had taken their
role as supporter of Israel with greater observation of world opinion.

It's too late now .. Trump 'sealed the deal', and gave strong signals that the Palestinians would
not have any say over their future, dismissing the UN and that it will always have "ironclad" support.
Biden has not, and cannot change it.
There is always a reason why things happen.

 

[Quagmire]

Well, you can't .. it's reality.

And yet people do. What I mean is A lot of people voicing support for Palestine here in the US only see the conflict as oppressors versus the oppressed.

What they fail to take into account is the fact that from the perspective of many Middle Eastern Muslims, including many powerful leaders and organizations, this conflict is just the latest chapter in a holy war, a jihad, and that any compromise with Israel would be a subversion of God's will.

Even if Israel were to give back every acre of land Palestinians feel entitled to, even if they were to cease the hostilities completely right now, even if Isreal bent over backwards to come up with some sort of arrangement that the Palestinians would find acceptable, do you really believe any peace achieved would be permanent?

Personally I doubt it.

We all have beliefs, even if they are secular.

The main point, is that one side is not automatically right, because of the religion/belief system
that they follow.

That's the point: try explaining that to Hamas.

Nations rise and fall .. sometimes they have the moral high ground, and sometimes they don't.

The only thing that could have solved the Middle East cauldron, is if the US had taken their
role as supporter of Israel with greater observation of world opinion.

It's too late now .. Trump 'sealed the deal', and gave strong signals that the Palestinians would

Could you explain that to me? I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that I haven't gotten that far yet.

I've heard claims that the Abraham accords, which Trump helped broker, were one of the most significant steps forward to facilitating peace in the Middle East in quite a while.

Bearing in mind that's so far I've only heard this from Trump supporters and I haven't looked into any of it myself.

not have any say over their future, dismissing the UN and that it will always have "ironclad" support.
Biden has not, and cannot change it.
There is always a reason why things happen.

Well, when it comes to world politics there are always a myriad of reasons, many of which the man on the street can't understand or will probably never know about.

Several times squared when it comes to the Middle East crisis.

This is the objection I was making: It seems to me that everybody I've talked to so far and most of what I've read is coming from people who are only interested in acknowledging those aspects of the conflict that support their position.

I live in a country full of people who for the last couple of generations have been raised on action films and video games and have come away from all that with this view of the world which sees it as populated by clearly defined good guys and bad guys/ villains and victims/ oppressors and the oppressed. And we all think that we can tell who's who in the first 5 minutes of the movie.

Realistically, the world is full of ordinary people just trying to survive and who are willing to do pretty much whatever they feel like they have to in order to achieve that.

I really don't believe that the Muslim world would ever allow Israel to exist peacefully in the long term. Do you?

And if that's the way it is where would you have them go?

History has shown that there's no place on the planet that's ever been completely safe for the Jewish people.

Or put it this way: If, ultimately, they've decided that the safest place for them to is in the middle of a desert surrounded by enemies, including many calling for their complete destruction, I think that tells the whole story right there.

And it actually is the safest place for them in a lot of ways, mainly because their sovereignty allows them to defend themselves.


Now if I've gotten any of that wrong and you'd like to help me with my education I would welcome it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think we'd all be better off if we left religion out of the equation.

But we know that's not going to happen.

It cannot happen.
It's the fundamental reason the conflict started & continues to exist.

 

[Quagmire]

It cannot happen.
It's the fundamental reason the conflict started & continues to exist.

So it wasn't because Ben Gurion stole the Ayatollah Khomeini's parking space.

Is there anything that I was taught in grammar school that wasn't a lie???