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The God of Abraham and Getting Down to Brass Tacks
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Old of someone can make different in responsibility,also other mental conditions.
even we humans consider that in court, a crime done by 5 years old not the same to crime done by 50 years old.
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Allows the existence of suffering - True, God allows suffering for a relatively brief time for reasons that are loving, wise, and just.
Permits the existence of genetic diseases and defects - Such defects resulted from man's rebellion against God. The blame lies with Adam and Satan. (Romans 5:12) I believe if God had executed Adam immediately, not one of us would have the opportunity to live at all. Instead, God's patience has allowed us the hope of everlasting life.
Created an eternal hell whose entry is based solely on one's behavior during a very minuscule time on earth - Totally false.
Condones and advocates slavery - God never advocated slavery and never condoned oppressive slavery.
Kills innocent humans - Totally false
Advocates raping the women of one's enemy - Totally false
Expects human sacrifice - Don't understand this one. Example?
Kills those who worship foreign gods - Misleading assertion, IMO. God expected only the Israelites, who had made a solemn agreement or covenant to serve Jehovah, and were accountable to him to keep their promise. When they served other gods, he punished them, sometimes with death.
Burns those who transgress his covenant. - Don't understand this one. Example?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Yes, I realize you're committed to put a "good spin" on everything god does, no matter how ridiculous it may be.
I also know that no matter how unreasonable such an act is you're obligated to regard it as just.
Q. Would you inflict suffering on others simply because someone else once did something wrong? Of course not. Only god and tyrants do such things.
And gee, isn't that nice.
God speaking: "Here's the deal. I created you with all kinds afflictions and maladies most of which you will likely never overcome, because I chose to. But most importantly, I created you with faults that if not overcome will land you in a lake of fire for all eternity after you die. WHY? you may ask. Because it pleases me. Of course there is a loophole to the inevitability of hell, which is the acceptance of my son (actually myself in a different guise-*smirk*) as your lord and savior. What! you ask? What of those whom the incompetent preachers of my message fail to convince of my truth? Tough titty. And how about all those who never hear of this loophole? Tough titty for them as well. But never fear, I've made sure that hell has plenty of room for everyone because, if nothing else, I am a just and loving god."
So what else is it based on, the whim of god? Would this be the Get-Out-Of-Hell grace card some say he randomly bestows on people?
Stop it. Denial doesn't make scripture go away.
In other words
You mean that unlike the others claims I've made, you can't find an instance of god doing such a thing. Understood. Well try this
Genesis 22:1-18
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.”
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.”
Judges 11:29-39
29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manas′seh, and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If thou wilt give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whoever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer him up for a burnt offering.”. . .
. . .34 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 And when he saw her, he rent his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! you have brought me very low, and you have become the cause of great trouble to me; for I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” 36 And she said to him, “My father, if you have opened your mouth to the Lord, do to me according to what has gone forth from your mouth, now that the Lord has avenged you on your enemies, on the Ammonites.” 37 And she said to her father, “Let this thing be done for me; let me alone two months, that I may go and wander[a] on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.” 38 And he said, “Go.” And he sent her away for two months; and she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. 39 And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had made.
29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manas′seh, and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If thou wilt give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whoever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer him up for a burnt offering.”. . .
. . .34 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 And when he saw her, he rent his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! you have brought me very low, and you have become the cause of great trouble to me; for I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” 36 And she said to him, “My father, if you have opened your mouth to the Lord, do to me according to what has gone forth from your mouth, now that the Lord has avenged you on your enemies, on the Ammonites.” 37 And she said to her father, “Let this thing be done for me; let me alone two months, that I may go and wander[a] on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.” 38 And he said, “Go.” And he sent her away for two months; and she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. 39 And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had made.
Deuteronomy 13: 12-15
12 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, you may hear 13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.
12 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, you may hear 13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.
“The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
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The God of Abraham and Getting Down to Brass Tacks.
God did not create evil! God is pure Love, He created the Garden of Eden, Beautiful, flawless, free of sickness and evil. BUT, He also created man and woman with free will. Once they were deceived by satan the devil, that is when sickness, evil, death and everything that satan can come up with started to happen. The Apostle Paul mentions that we are in a raging battle with the forces of evil, yeh those evil spirits that work for satan to cause all kinds of pain and suffering. That is where pain and suffering come from, not from God.
ronandcarol
God did not create evil! God is pure Love, He created the Garden of Eden, Beautiful, flawless, free of sickness and evil. BUT, He also created man and woman with free will. Once they were deceived by satan the devil, that is when sickness, evil, death and everything that satan can come up with started to happen. The Apostle Paul mentions that we are in a raging battle with the forces of evil, yeh those evil spirits that work for satan to cause all kinds of pain and suffering. That is where pain and suffering come from, not from God.
ronandcarol
See my comments above.Yes, I realize you're committed to put a "good spin" on everything god does, no matter how ridiculous it may be.
I also know that no matter how unreasonable such an act is you're obligated to regard it as just.
Q. Would you inflict suffering on others simply because someone else once did something wrong? Of course not. Only god and tyrants do such things.
And gee, isn't that nice.
God speaking: "Here's the deal. I created you with all kinds afflictions and maladies most of which you will likely never overcome, because I chose to. But most importantly, I created you with faults that if not overcome will land you in a lake of fire for all eternity after you die. WHY? you may ask. Because it pleases me. Of course there is a loophole to the inevitability of hell, which is the acceptance of my son (actually myself in a different guise-*smirk*) as your lord and savior. What! you ask? What of those whom the incompetent preachers of my message fail to convince of my truth? Tough titty. And how about all those who never hear of this loophole? Tough titty for them as well. But never fear, I've made sure that hell has plenty of room for everyone because, if nothing else, I am a just and loving god."
The teaching of conscious torment in hellfire is a slander against God.
So what else is it based on, the whim of god? Would this be the Get-Out-Of-Hell grace card some say he randomly bestows on people?
To repeat, the teaching of conscious torment in hellfire is a slander against God.
Stop it. Denial doesn't make scripture go away.
In other words
You mean that unlike the others claims I've made, you can't find an instance of god doing such a thing. Understood. Well try this
Granted that god relented because it was only a test of Abraham, but Abraham would not have thought it was a sincere demand if it wasn't in keeping with the character of god. In any case we have this clear example.Genesis 22:1-18
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.”
Judges 11:29-39
29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manas′seh, and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If thou wilt give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whoever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer him up for a burnt offering.”. . .
. . .34 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 And when he saw her, he rent his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! you have brought me very low, and you have become the cause of great trouble to me; for I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” 36 And she said to him, “My father, if you have opened your mouth to the Lord, do to me according to what has gone forth from your mouth, now that the Lord has avenged you on your enemies, on the Ammonites.” 37 And she said to her father, “Let this thing be done for me; let me alone two months, that I may go and wander[a] on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.” 38 And he said, “Go.” And he sent her away for two months; and she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. 39 And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had made.
Jephthah did not sacrifice his daughter by burning her in the fire, something detestable to Jehovah (Jeremiah 7:31). He rather gave her to temple service. This is shown by Judges 11:40; "From year to year, the young women of Israel would go to give commendation to the daughter of Jephʹthah the Gilʹe·ad·ite four days in the year." So your examples are NOT REAL.
Deuteronomy 13: 12-15
12 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, you may hear 13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.
Yes, and your point?
“The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
What you failed to mention is that Aachen's dead body was burned with fire after he was stoned to death, because he had stolen items and made the whole camp guilty by his wrongdoing. (Joshua 7:25) His crime caused the deaths of other Israelites. Never did Jehovah command that people be burned alive as punishment for sin.
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Kuzcotopia
If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
You believe in angels and jinnys.
Is it demonstrable that both kinds of being exist? Do all who read the quran believe in both angels and jinnys? How do you know they're real?
If I said I believed in invisible fairies that haunt flower gardens, how do you determine that I am wrong??
And many religions believe in them too.
Since I do believe that I am created, and I do believe Quran is from God,that easy for me to believe.
There is an angel his duty is pull the soul from body , do you heard that someone back from death ?
That's called "believe".
for exemple,I do believe there is other creatures(aliens) in universe as God said in Quran,how determine that I am wrong ?