The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

[Balthazzar]

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast. We are created to do good works, but faith is paramount.

Suppose a person is unable to perform works, but has faith...

I see grace as being an unmerited favor. Bad things happen to good people after all. Good things happen to good people. Something about the sun shining and rain falling on everyone. Sometimes we get through our struggles by the hair of our chins while we grasp at loose straws. I think faith is about making the effort despite knowing that they might not be successful. It helps to have the effort evidenced with some substance. This helps build up our resolve, it's encouraging, it helps us keep on keeping on. That's faith. Grace is getting through it.

 

[YoursTrue]

I call that “The Gospel of the Thief” - The thief on the right side had faith but was never able to do any works.

Jesus blessed him because of his demonstration that he realized who Jesus was...touching. Thank you for that comment because God knows our heart and circumstances.

 

[YoursTrue]

I see grace as being an unmerited favor. Bad things happen to good people after all. Good things happen to good people. Something about the sun shining and rain falling on everyone. Sometimes we get through our struggles by the hair of our chins while we grasp at loose straws. I think faith is about making the effort despite knowing that they might not be successful. It helps to have the effort evidenced with some substance. This helps build up our resolve, it's encouraging, it helps us keep on keeping on. That's faith. Grace is getting through it.

The fact that I have a relationship with God is something I could never have imagined before I asked Him to know Him. And He did allow me to know Him, for which I am very grateful. Am I perfect? No. Am I able to explain everything? Obviously not. You have a nice day, I enjoyed your comment, thank you.

 

[Dimi95]

I see grace as being an unmerited favor.

Grace means Non-meritorious or unearned favor, an unearned gift, a favor or blessings bestowed as a gift, freely and never as merit for work performed.

God does not need favor in return for his grace.

Bad things happen to good people after all.

Yes , i know myself , i lost my father when i was 23.
He was a good person to everyone , but he struggled to have that same energy at home.

Good things happen to good people.

Yes , for sure , since i started with my father , good things happend to him also , as the birth of me and my sister.

Something about the sun shining and rain falling on everyone. Sometimes we get through our struggles by the hair of our chins while we grasp at loose straws. I think faith is about making the effort despite knowing that they might not be successful. It helps to have the effort evidenced with some substance. This helps build up our resolve, it's encouraging, it helps us keep on keeping on. That's faith. Grace is getting through it.

No,grace is before it.
How can you have faith if you don't belive in grace?
Why did Jesus died then? So we might accept grace , and belive and have faith in him and the works will come.

We are saved by grace,not by faith.
If one is aware of what Christ did , then it is grace,not faith.
By what he gave on the cross we have faith in him.
Grace , hope , love - not faith and works.
Faith is work itself.
Even the demons belive that there is One God.

People just think that faith and works must be perfect otherwise you won't be saved.
Sometimes changes are slow and take some time.

Matthew 17:20-21 is the perfect example for it.

Take care , just wanted to catch up with what you said.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

The symbolism was not about making a new law, that says all law is now obsolete, and faith is the way to righteousness,

That's not correct...look at the new testament claims that Abraham was saved by faith.
Abraham predates the Exodus and giving of the Mosaic law at Mt Sinai by half a millenia!


Even Abraham was saved by faith and he demonstrated that faith by his decision to follow the Lord.

People simply do not understand that the Mosaic system EXPLAINED HOW SALVATION WORKS.

The atonement for sin and the resurrection are fully illustrated in the Old Testament Sanctuary service. Christs death didn't replace anything...it was a fulfillment exactly as outlined by the sanctuary service. People just don't get this fact instead thinking the law was thrown out at the cross.

Study the sanctuary service!

Oh also,

Read Genesis 15:6
6Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:2,3
2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Galatians 3:6-8
6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham:

James 2:21-23
21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”

 

[Balthazzar]

Grace means Non-meritorious or unearned favor, an unearned gift, a favor or blessings bestowed as a gift, freely and never as merit for work performed.

God does not need favor in return for his grace.


Yes , i know myself , i lost my father when i was 23.
He was a good person to everyone , but he struggled to have that same energy at home.



Yes , for sure , since i started with my father , good things happend to him also , as the birth of me and my sister.


No,grace is before it.
How can you have faith if you don't belive in grace?
Why did Jesus died then? So we might accept grace , and belive and have faith in him and the works will come.

We are saved by grace,not by faith.
If one is aware of what Christ did , then it is grace,not faith.
By what he gave on the cross we have faith in him.
Grace , hope , love - not faith and works.
Faith is work itself.
Even the demons belive that there is One God.

People just think that faith and works must be perfect otherwise you won't be saved.
Sometimes changes are slow and take some time.

Matthew 17:20-21 is the perfect example for it.

Take care , just wanted to catch up with what you said.

How can you have faith if you don't believe in grace?

Grace isn't about belief, it's the getting through it part that strengthens our faith. Faith has substance and evidence; it involves our works. Faith without works is dead. We show our faith through them. Grace is getting through it and is extended to everyone. I think maybe this is due to faith being required to please God, but without our efforts it's dead because this type is not evidenced by actions, works, or by fruits. Foolish works or making dumb decisions is different. We are also required to utilize the spirit of truth ( holy spirit), which means we are required to acknowledge what's true as a guiding system moving forward. Truth, honesty, and what we know to be true to life as opposed to simply following unwarranted or unearned ideals. We should require evidence and substance as opposed to simply believing in misunderstood superstition.

The gist is we struggle in life. We win some we lose some and we build up our confidence (faith) through our wins and we lose our confidence through our losses. All this is based on what is true and real. Resolve to acquire greater skill and ability also helps develop confidence and this too involves works and effort. Faith is developed and further established, but we are given a measure from the start. Grace helps substantiate our existence as equals and is unmerited. Faith involves work, effort, and action, but as I suggested, we are given a measure from the start. I think it varies and is directly related to life realities and individual experiences.

 

[Dimi95]

How can you have faith if you don't believe in grace?

You have to belive that you are saved by grace.
Faith is what you gain with that.
Grace is what works so our faith can be strengthend.

Grace isn't about belief, it's the getting through it part that strengthens our faith.

Yes , but you are first given , so by it you saved.
Grace is what works within faith.

Faith has substance and evidence; it involves our works.

Correct

Faith without works is dead. We show our faith through them. Grace is getting through it and is extended to everyone.

So grace is what works through fight , right?
We show our grace through faith

I think maybe this is due to faith being required to please God

Why do you say to please?
Do you belive that God needs anything fron anyone?
Grace is given , remember.

, but without our efforts it's dead because this type is not evidenced by actions, works, or by fruits.

No, it is not like that actually
Stop it , this faith and works thing.
Grace is given , and by that you are saved.
You are saved because it is given to you of love and hope and of faith.
Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 13:13?

Foolish works or making dumb decisions is different.

That is the thing here , you don't have to worry about faith and works and discuss them , because by creed we are saved by grace.

We are also required to utilize the spirit of truth ( holy spirit)

That's what God means to me , spirit of truth.
Truth alone as a concept is holy since it ascociates with God.

, which means we are required to acknowledge what's true as a guiding system moving forward.

This is the problem , this system that you speak off.
There is no system..
It all starts from grace and what comes next is not planned but individual expirience.

Truth, honesty, and what we know to be true to life as opposed to simply following unwarranted or unearned ideals. We should require evidence and substance as opposed to simply believing in misunderstood superstition.

Ok , so Truth , honesty.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

The gist is we struggle in life. We win some we lose some and we build up our confidence (faith) through our wins and we lose our confidence through our losses.

I refuse to lose.
I accept only to learn and win.

All this is based on what is true and real.

That is true and real to me , to learn and win.

Resolve to acquire greater skill and ability also helps develop confidence and this too involves works and effort.

There is nothing more to do except to accept that we are saved by grace.

Faith is developed and further established, but we are given a measure from the start.

Correct and that is not a measure but it is grace.You don't measure gifts.

Grace helps substantiate our existence as equals and is unmerited.

Grace saves you.

Faith involves work, effort, and action, but as I suggested, we are given a measure from the start. I think it varies and is directly related to life realities and individual experiences.

Again we go with Faith and Works.
Grace works through Faith and vice versa.

We are saved , but not by our own works.
But by the works of someone else and that is grace to us.

The morals behind it.

Matthew 5:34
"But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all"

 

[Ebionite]

Read Genesis 15:6
6Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:2,3
2If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Galatians 3:6-8
6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham:

James 2:21-23
21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”

Genesis 15:6 is not about works, so it can't support an argument that claims that works is without effect.

Understandably, James opposed Paul's doctrine:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James 2:20-23

Paul's problem was indicated by Habbakuk as the faith of the proud man:

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:17

 

[Balthazzar]

You have to belive that you are saved by grace.
Faith is what you gain with that.
Grace is what works so our faith can be strengthend.


Yes , but you are first given , so by it you saved.
Grace is what works within faith.


Correct


So grace is what works through fight , right?
We show our grace through faith


Why do you say to please?
Do you belive that God needs anything fron anyone?
Grace is given , remember.


No, it is not like that actually
Stop it , this faith and works thing.
Grace is given , and by that you are saved.
You are saved because it is given to you of love and hope and of faith.
Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 13:13?



That is the thing here , you don't have to worry about faith and works and discuss them , because by creed we are saved by grace.


That's what God means to me , spirit of truth.
Truth alone as a concept is holy since it ascociates with God.


This is the problem , this system that you speak off.
There is no system..
It all starts from grace and what comes next is not planned but individual expirience.


Ok , so Truth , honesty.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."


I refuse to lose.
I accept only to learn and win.


That is true and real to me , to learn and win.


There is nothing more to do except to accept that we are saved by grace.


Correct and that is not a measure but it is grace.You don't measure gifts.



Grace saves you.


Again we go with Faith and Works.
Grace works through Faith and vice versa.

We are saved , but not by our own works.
But by the works of someone else and that is grace to us.

The morals behind it.

Matthew 5:34
"But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all"

I stopped reading after the first paragraph.

Have a nice day.

Have you ever thought that some types don't care to argue over this ****? Have a nice day.

Really, I mean it.

Your way is apparently right for you. Don't expect me to attempt a conversion. Truth is, I don't care what you believe about it. It's not worth the argument. So, have a nice day.

A re-write of Horace's'

Ode 1:11

By: Philip Francis, 1835

Strive not, Leuconoe, to pry
Into the secret will of fate,
Nor impious magic vainly try
To know our lives’ uncertain date;

Whether th’ indulgent power divine
Hath many seasons yet in store,
Or this the latest winter thine,
Which breaks its waves against the shore.

Thy life with wiser arts be crown’d.
Thy filter’d wines abundant pour;
The lengthen’d hope with prudence bound
Proportioned to the flying hour;

Even while we talk in careless ease,
Our envious minutes wing their flight;
Then swift the fleeting pleasure seize,
Nor trust to-morrow’s doubtful light

 

[Dimi95]

I stopped reading after the first paragraph.

Have a nice day.

Have you ever thought that some types don't care to argue over this ****? Have a nice day.

Really, I mean it.

Your way is apparently right for you. Don't expect me to attempt a conversion. Truth is, I don't care what you believe about it. It's not worth the argument. So, have a nice day.

Well i did not say it so you can be mad with me.
You don't have to convert , nobody is preaching here.
I just defend what i think Christian means to be.Don't i have the right to say it?
I am sorry if i was not polite enough to tell you that that alone has a meaning.

You don't have to belive it , but you can say what do you think of it for example.
What do you think of "being saved by grace".
You don't have to ascociated with Christianity , you can explain in it in your words the connections between such strong words like grace , faith and works.
And if i say that grace is the most important what is the wrong in it?


I don't know you , why would i preach to you?

 

[Balthazzar]

 

[Dimi95]

I gets me sick when i i see people misinterpretating the point.
You coukd have just explained why is that not so.

You can explain things without being emotionally connected with them.

Why do you think that they were meant as to be preached ?
How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Balthazzar]

I gets me sick when i i see people misinterpretating the point.
You coukd have just explained why is that not so.

You can explain things without being emotionally connected with them.

Why do you think that they were meant as to be preached ?
How did you come to that conclusion?

Sincerity is sometimes in short supply, and I don't have a need to reiterate what I've stated as my stance. I don't have a need to change your mind, either. So, accepting the facts as presented and the sincerity for what it's worth, how about we agree to disagree or agree to feel free enough to have views that are personally held. I don't feel I should make waves against your stance. It differs from my own. This is adequate. I don't mind making waves. It's just this isn't worth arguing over. The way I see it, the sun shines on the just and the unjust even as it rains on the just and unjust. You ever feel like a spinning coin? It can be difficult to end the spin in an upright position and there's two sides to every coin. It's not about the choosing always, it becomes a necessitated life event no matter how things might play out.

Walking the line is not as clearly defined as we might want it to be.

 

[Dimi95]

Sincerity is sometimes in short supply, and I don't have a need to reiterate what I've stated as my stance. I don't have a need to change your mind, either. So, accepting the facts as presented and the sincerity for what it's worth, how about we agree to disagree or agree to feel free enough to have views that are personally held. I don't feel I should make waves against your stance. It differs from my own. This is adequate. I don't mind making waves. It's just this isn't worth arguing over. The way I see it, the sun shines on the just and the unjust even as it rains on the just and unjust. You ever feel like a spinning coin? It can be difficult to end the spin on an upright position and there's two sides to every coin.

Walking the line is not as clearly defined as we might want it to be.

But i don't question your sincerity , i try to understand it.
So when i wrote what i wrote i expected maybe that you will answer it with why you don't think is like that and maybe offer some explenations on terms like Grace , faith , works , salvation.We talk about them to find what they mean,or?
I don't mind you telling me about what you think of that , you can do so.
But

There is no just or unjust , we are all sinners.That's what i think the New Testament is telling.
I disagree with you explenations , i think that the terms 'just' and 'unjust' have nothing to do with grace.I think that grace is given so that both just and unjust to realize that they are all sinners , no matter how good they are.
Feel free to think otherwise

 

[Balthazzar]

But i don't question your sincerity , i try to understand it.
So when i wrote what i wrote i expected maybe that you will answer it with why you don't think is like that and maybe offer some explenations on terms like Grace , faith , works , salvation.We talk about them to find what they mean,or?
I don't mind you telling me about what you think of that , you can do so.
But

There is no just or unjust , we are all sinners.That's what i think the New Testament is telling.
I disagree with you explenations , i think that the terms 'just' and 'unjust' have nothing to do with grace.I think that grace is given so that both just and unjust to realize that they are all sinners , no matter how good they are.
Feel free to think otherwise

No, I question your sincerity.

For what an honest answer is worth.

 

[Dimi95]

No, I question your sincerity.

For what an honest answer is worth.

Then you have to be able to prove that and not just work with empty words.

I asked you to say something more about these terms so i can find out why do you think Grace is not what i claim to say it is? Because you are a Christian , right ? I am interested to find out what a Christian says about that.

Are you able to speak about these terms in that way or not?

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

In logic, Sanctifying Grace is special grace freely given with nothing expected in return. Baptism is a sacrament from death to life in the flesh that transforms mortality and corruptuption from Adam and Eve from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being becoming sanctified incorruptible and immortal through the Body of Chrsit.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Balthazzar]

But i don't question your sincerity , i try to understand it.
So when i wrote what i wrote i expected maybe that you will answer it with why you don't think is like that and maybe offer some explenations on terms like Grace , faith , works , salvation.We talk about them to find what they mean,or?
I don't mind you telling me about what you think of that , you can do so.
But

There is no just or unjust , we are all sinners.That's what i think the New Testament is telling.
I disagree with you explenations , i think that the terms 'just' and 'unjust' have nothing to do with grace.I think that grace is given so that both just and unjust to realize that they are all sinners , no matter how good they are.
Feel free to think otherwise

and we're all innocent. When I fall short, it's typically because I don't understand enough to know better. This is a process, and I don't think it ever ends. and we're all guilty, so this equates to same, and it is in our same that we are extended grace. Grace is given to everyone. It's in our efforts, works, etc that we develop. This helps instill greater faith and confidence due to the increase of understanding. For me, grace means exactly what I implied. things happen to all of us, both good things and bad. This of course is a personal evaluation. We determine what's good and bad as individuals. Either way, it's grace ... salvation? I have no pre-conceived notions aside from greater longevity and increased quality. These are not guaranteed, but our efforts to increase these are faith driven. Why would we try if not for hope of achieving? Some people lose hope because what they hope for lacks substance and isn't being evidenced enough to continue. Our efforts increase our ability and are typically met with degree of success. This, as I stated, increases faith and confidence, which then increases our resolve and helps us continue, to persevere. It strengthens us. There you have it: Faith, grace, works, and salvation defined as I understand the terms.

I don't feel like arguing about it.