The Growing Greatness of Muhammad (S+) In The Eyes of Much of The World

[InvestigateTruth]

then you are muslim

Well, thank you. I hope the Islam religious leaders as well as some Moslem governments were also so openminded.

 

[al-amiyr]

This is the verses: (Although there are many more)
To every people is a term appointed: when their term is reached not an hour can they cause delay nor (an hour) can they advance." (Qur'an 7:34)
"O children of Adam, verily apostles from among you shall come unto you, who shall expound my signs unto you: whosoever therefore shall fear God and amend, there shall come no fear on them, neither shall they be grieved." [Qur'an 7:35]

Some argue that the verse is addressing the children of Adam, but not Muslems, but if you look a few verse above in the same surih in 7:31, we see, it is addressing Muslems as Childeren of Adam:

O Children of Adam! Look to your adornment in every Masjid.
Can you bring from Sunni sources as well so that I can look at them all together.

Some argue that, Masjid can mean a general place of worship, but this is a weak argument, because in Quran the term Masjid is never used as place of worship for Christians, Jews, etc...

With regards to Hadith, there are many Hadithes regarding coming of Mahdi and return of Christ. Some argue that these two would not bring a new revelation, but this argument is not Islamic, because it is upto God if He wants to reveal new Laws, moreover there are Hadithes that says Mahdi comes with a new Book and a new Law:

In the “Aválím,” an authoritative and well-known book, it is recorded: “A Youth from Baní-Háshim shall be made manifest, Who will reveal a new Book and promulgate a new law;” then follow these words: “Most of His enemies will be the divines.”


In “Arbá’in” it is recorded: “Out of Baní-Háshim there shall come forth a Youth Who shall reveal new laws. He shall summon the people unto Him, but none will heed His call. Most of His enemies will be the divines. His bidding they will not obey, but will protest saying: ‘This is contrary to that which hath been handed down unto us by the Imáms of the Faith.’”


I can bring Hadithes from Sunni sources as well, but would require more discussion.

Can you bring some of those Sunni hadiyths so that I can look at them as well. You can discuss them if you consider it necessary to explain your viewpoint.

 

[freethinker44]

Physical historical facts that prove Muhammad was the greatest human that ever lived? Impossible to know. You don't know the life of every human that ever lived going back 200,000+ years. At best, you can say greatest human that you personally know of using only historical facts and subjective opinion of others, but to say greatest human who ever lived PERIOD is just ridiculous. No one has that knowledge.

 

[Lady B]

This is the verses: (Although there are many more)
To every people is a term appointed: when their term is reached not an hour can they cause delay nor (an hour) can they advance." (Qur'an 7:34)
"O children of Adam, verily apostles from among you shall come unto you, who shall expound my signs unto you: whosoever therefore shall fear God and amend, there shall come no fear on them, neither shall they be grieved." [Qur'an 7:35]

Some argue that the verse is addressing the children of Adam, but not Muslems, but if you look a few verse above in the same surih in 7:31, we see, it is addressing Muslems as Childeren of Adam:

O Children of Adam! Look to your adornment in every Masjid.

Some argue that, Masjid can mean a general place of worship, but this is a weak argument, because in Quran the term Masjid is never used as place of worship for Christians, Jews, etc...

With regards to Hadith, there are many Hadithes regarding coming of Mahdi and return of Christ. Some argue that these two would not bring a new revelation, but this argument is not Islamic, because it is upto God if He wants to reveal new Laws, moreover there are Hadithes that says Mahdi comes with a new Book and a new Law:

In the “Aválím,” an authoritative and well-known book, it is recorded: “A Youth from Baní-Háshim shall be made manifest, Who will reveal a new Book and promulgate a new law;” then follow these words: “Most of His enemies will be the divines.”


In “Arbá’in” it is recorded: “Out of Baní-Háshim there shall come forth a Youth Who shall reveal new laws. He shall summon the people unto Him, but none will heed His call. Most of His enemies will be the divines. His bidding they will not obey, but will protest saying: ‘This is contrary to that which hath been handed down unto us by the Imáms of the Faith.’”


I can bring Hadithes from Sunni sources as well, but would require more discussion.

ahhh yes the Mahdi, I would love to hear the reply's :tigger:

 

[Surya Deva]

I have only quoted from the research of non-Muslim Historians. Do you want me to hide this information so that you can put up your own candidates if there are any.There is simply no one in history who can compare with Muhammad (S+).
Put me to the challenge. I have become sick and tired of people who have and are still heaping up lies against this great man. The day of reckoning has come for the earth. Just be fair. Don't let your own ideas prevent you from holding back what is true. I realize that it hurts you.

Many of the Hindu Vasihanvas consider Krishna as the greatest. Many of the Hindu Shaiva's consider Shiva the greatest. Many Christians consider Jesus to be the greatest. Others consider Gandhi the greatest, Einstein, Mozart, Mother Therresa, Zoroaster, Alexadra, Julius Ceaser to Marry Poppins are considered the greatest by somebody. Heck, some consider Satan and Hitler the greatest.

Again this is a very silly thread, its no better than a childish argument like "My daddy is better than yours" There is no way of arguing who the greatest human being that ever lived is, because we don't know every human being that every lived and the opinion of who is the greatest among who we know is purely subjective.

 

[England my lionheart]

Can the gentle explain
1)-in the context of politic and diplomacy i think he lacked finesse,
2)-what has it to do with the Middle East thats in turmoil right now
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Qur'an
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Hadith
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Sunnah
the Qur'an which was supposedly sent down with a clear message from a God is at the centre of a belief sytem thats at least two thirds Human,thats just an opinion.

Please can you give examples so we can see if the arguments are valid. They may be but furnish it. For if it is not then it would be grave injustice about a man who is not present to defend himself. I am here to defend the Prophet. You can speak to me about anything. Lets see!

1= Medinah
2= Ambiguos,the Qur'an IMO is ambiguous especially coupled with the hadith,in the hadith one can find everything from an illiterate Man sending for his writing implements to marrying a Child or torture and murder,BTW,my favourite hadith of the mortgaged Camel is my favourite ,from what i understand the Sunnah of Muhammed is an example of the path to Allah,an example to be followed yet there are many who stray from the path so hey presto! ambiguoty.

 

[al-amiyr]

Many of the Hindu Vasihanvas consider Krishna as the greatest. Many of the Hindu Shaiva's consider Shiva the greatest. Many Christians consider Jesus to be the greatest. Others consider Gandhi the greatest, Einstein, Mozart, Mother Therresa, Zoroaster, Alexadra, Julius Ceaser to Marry Poppins are considered the greatest by somebody. Heck, some consider Satan and Hitler the greatest.

Again this is a very silly thread, its no better than a childish argument like "My daddy is better than yours" There is no way of arguing who the greatest human being that ever lived is, because we don't know every human being that every lived and the opinion of who is the greatest among who we know is purely subjective.

Bring your proof from outside.Your arguments hold no water.The problem is your statements does not say anything.Half your religion have already gone over to the great religion of Muhammad.Half your religion has been abandoned and rejected by her own people and dwindling fast. You failed to make any argument.

 

[gnostic]

He can't be.

He can't read or write.

Nah, just joking.

But I don't think he is the greatest of all time. Definitely the greatest in Islam (from 7th century CE to present), but not the greatest in the world.

And I don't exactly like him. Don't think he was the head of his time. Nor do I think he had reach the fullest human potentials.

 

[FearGod]

He can't be.

He can't read or write.

Nah, just joking.

But I don't think he is the greatest of all time. Definitely the greatest in Islam (from 7th century CE to present), but not the greatest in the world.

And I don't exactly like him. Don't think he was the head of his time. Nor do I think he had reach the fullest human potentials.

Then you are the greatest at the present world

 

[al-amiyr]

He can't be.

He can't read or write.

Nah, just joking.

But I don't think he is the greatest of all time. Definitely the greatest in Islam (from 7th century CE to present), but not the greatest in the world.

And I don't exactly like him. Don't think he was the head of his time. Nor do I think he had reach the fullest human potentials.

This is not a personal matter. You do not need to like someone to acknowledge his achievements. Nor do you have to degrade someone because you do not like that person.
Again poster has failed to present evidence to the contrary. Muhammad (S+) thus remains historically the all time greatest.

 

[gnostic]

This is not a personal matter. You do not need to like someone to acknowledge his achievements.

Muhammad only brought 2 things into the world, that we know for sure he did.

He introduce a new religion, a mixture of Judaism and Christianity, with some pagan superstitions, and gained power through his claim to be messenger/prophet. And it is a very successful religion. Part of the successes, came later, where Islam spread east and west, through conquests and the expansion of successive empires.

He brought wars to his enemies - to his fellow-countrymen and Jews - and he was quite successful at it.

Those are the only 2 things - historicity - that he did great.

Everything else, like alleged angelic visitations, the alleged miracles, and the alleged (divine) source for the Qur'an, are all debatable, questionable, and they are claims without evidences to support them. Believing these things happened is matter of faith.

 

[Breathe]

Half your religion has been abandoned and rejected by her own people and dwindling fast. You failed to make any argument.

If that was true, why are there still Hindus?

 

[9Westy9]

This is not a personal matter.

It's a personal opinion. I personally think Thomas Paine was a greater human being than Muhammed. However, I know that it's my personal opinion rather than a fact

 

[al-amiyr]

He brought wars to his enemies - to his fellow-countrymen and Jews - and he was quite successful at it.

There again you go about twisting the history.You guys are surely dishonest. To you this is freedom of speech "we can say anything we wish even how badly we twist it". There was Muhammad (S+) a powerless man with a few powerless followers. Teaching people to abandon the worship of stones and killing the infant girls. Then came the powerful ones in charge to put and end to his teaching. They warned and then they killed. Muhammad (S+) saw how they brutalized innocent harmless men and women. They ripped out the arms of his followers and burned them on the hot desert sand. How they tortured Bilaal the freed African slave whom he loved so much and always stood by his side. How these enemies began a process of starving his followers to death. The struggle against the oppression was so hard that his followers had to flee to the desert and over the sea. They decided to bring and end to him but in the night he made a hasty retreat with almost nothing to eat and drink.These killers whom you have compassion for pursued him wherever they thought they could find him but to no avail.
Across the desert and along the sea he and Abu bakr (R+) trekked until they reached the city of his mothers family where they already invited him. A few years later these Arabs made a secret treaty with some Jews of the city to kill Muhammad and his followers proving themselves traitors whom you now are defending.
These Arabs would come to the city and when they arrive the Jews would rebel and then together they would wipe out Muhammad and all his followers.
But by the help of God , Muhammad (S+) gained the victory against great odds and soon his enemies were licking the dust from under their feet.
And these are the very traitors and murderous whom now is applauded.
Again another poster who does not have the facts correctly. Muhammad (S+) still remains the greatest human being in all of recorded history.

 

[FearGod]

It's a personal opinion. I personally think Thomas Paine was a greater human being than Muhammed. However, I know that it's my personal opinion rather than a fact

who is thomas palne,i didn't hear about him before,some information please.

 

[9Westy9]

who is thomas palne,i didn't hear about him before,some information please.

This should give you all the information you need

Thomas Paine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FearGod]

Muhammad only brought 2 things into the world, that we know for sure he did.

He introduce a new religion, a mixture of Judaism and Christianity, with some pagan superstitions, and gained power through his claim to be messenger/prophet. And it is a very successful religion. Part of the successes, came later, where Islam spread east and west, through conquests and the expansion of successive empires.

He brought wars to his enemies - to his fellow-countrymen and Jews - and he was quite successful at it.

Those are the only 2 things - historicity - that he did great.

Everything else, like alleged angelic visitations, the alleged miracles, and the alleged (divine) source for the Qur'an, are all debatable, questionable, and they are claims without evidences to support them. Believing these things happened is matter of faith.

He was so succeed in spreading of the religion and won against all his enemies,so what do you want more things to be done to be graded as the greatest in the history in both directions religion and the emerge of the islamic empire to what known today to be wide in land and population.

One important thing to prove it,that everyone till today are talking about him,whether for good or bad.

His name is lustrous that everyone know who is he and that is great.

 

[al-amiyr]

It's a personal opinion. I personally think Thomas Paine was a greater human being than Muhammed. However, I know that it's my personal opinion rather than a fact

Well I respect Thomas Paine but compared to Muhammad show some honesty.
Even when Thomas Paine said the following in The Age of Reason:
"When I am told that the Koran was written in Heaven, and brought to Mohammad by an angel, the account comes to near the same kind of hearsay evidence and second hand authority as the former. I did not see the angel myself, and therefore I have a right not to believe it.."

I still respect him because he was honest. He did not say anything bad. He spoke his opinion. You will be surprised how a great freedom fighter of thought the Prophet Muhammad (S+) was. The problem is that ignorance is standing in your way and so clouding your vision. You might still one day become the greatest supporter of Muhammad (S+) like so many like you have become. Just continue to learn. Don't take any none sense you hear from anyone calling him or herself a Muslim. Muhammad (S+) himself said that the Anti-Christ is coming from the people who recites the Qur'aan.

 

[9Westy9]

Well I respect Thomas Paine but compared to Muhammad show some honesty.

Thomas Paine was one of the key figures in the American revolution and stood up for his values. Very good values at that. He also suffered a lot because of them.

Even when Thomas Paine said the following in The Age of Reason:
"When I am told that the Koran was written in Heaven, and brought to Mohammad by an angel, the account comes to near the same kind of hearsay evidence and second hand authority as the former. I did not see the angel myself, and therefore I have a right not to believe it.."

I still respect him because he was honest. He did not say anything bad. He spoke his opinion. You will be surprised how a great freedom fighter of thought the Prophet Muhammad (S+) was. The problem is that ignorance is standing in your way and so clouding your vision. You might still one day become the greatest supporter of Muhammad (S+) like so many like you have become. Just continue to learn. Don't take any none sense you hear from anyone calling him or herself a Muslim. Muhammad (S+) himself said that the Anti-Christ is coming from the people who recites the Qur'aan.

Sure Muhammed was a great person. I just don't think he was the greatest.

 

[FearGod]

Thomas Paine was one of the key figures in the American revolution and stood up for his values. Very good values at that. He also suffered a lot because of them.



Sure Muhammed was a great person. I just don't think he was the greatest.

What measure you used to see who is the greatest.

Make a comparison which show us that Thomas was greater and which convinced you that he is so.