The Growing Greatness of Muhammad (S+) In The Eyes of Much of The World

[9Westy9]

What measure you used to see who is the greatest.

Make a comparison which show us that Thomas was greater and which convinced you that he is so.

why should I bother? I'm not trying to convince anyone that Thomas Paine was a greater person than Muhammad. All I'm trying to do is show how claiming Muhammad is the greatest is just an opinion rather than a fact.

 

[al-amiyr]

Thomas Paine was one of the key figures in the American revolution and stood up for his values. Very good values at that. He also suffered a lot because of them.



Sure Muhammed was a great person. I just don't think he was the greatest.

Thinking has nothing to do with the reality. If someone who never knew Thomas Paine like the poster who wanted to know more below:

who is thomas palne,i didn't hear about him before,some information please.

and that person said I don't think Thomas Paine did greater things than my teachers. First learn and investigate. That is science. I see so many here in this forum proclaiming science and then they go against the very rules. You see when you are confronted with a true scholar of Islaam, your ideologies will crumble. I am looking for debate but where are the debaters? Where are all those people who have belittled Muhammad (S+). Have they run away?

 

[FearGod]

why should I bother? I'm not trying to convince anyone that Thomas Paine was a greater person than Muhammad. All I'm trying to do is show how claiming Muhammad is the greatest is just an opinion rather than a fact.

Just opinion without reasoning and logic.

my opinion that Hitler is the greatest through the history of our world.
Why ?
The answer : My opinion.

 

[9Westy9]

Just opinion without reasoning and logic.

my opinion that Hitler is the greatest through the history of our world.
Why ?
The answer : My opinion.

I have my reasons for believing Thomas Paine was greater than Muhammad. I just don't feel the need to tell them. The point I was trying to prove was that opinions on things like "greatest person ever" are usually subjective.

Also you could defend the opinion that Hitler was the greatest by using certain definition(s) of greatest.

 

[9Westy9]

Thinking has nothing to do with the reality. If someone who never knew Thomas Paine like the poster who wanted to know more below:

and? Who says that "greatest" has anything to do with how well known the person is

and that person said I don't think Thomas Paine did greater things than my teachers. First learn and investigate.

and I say "I don't think Muhammad did greater things than Thomas Paine"

That is science. I see so many here in this forum proclaiming science and then they go against the very rules.

You can't get a scientific answer to "greatest person ever" because "greatest" has so many possible definitions

You see when you are confronted with a true scholar of Islaam, your ideologies will crumble.

My ideologies are doing fine, thanks

I am looking for debate but where are the debaters? Where are all those people who have belittled Muhammad (S+). Have they run away?

I'm a debater, and I'm still debating away. So don't go calling victory just yet.

 

[Lady B]

OK I will bite...why Is Mohamed The greatest man who ever lived? What did he accomplish above and beyond anyone else? Even accomplishments are subjective are they not? I am not arguing for or against your opinion, and yes I agree of course it is an opinion not a fact based statement. But please show me why you believe He was the greatest.

 

[al-amiyr]

OK I will bite...why Is Mohamed The greatest man who ever lived? What did he accomplish above and beyond anyone else? Even accomplishments are subjective are they not? I am not arguing for or against your opinion, and yes I agree of course it is an opinion not a fact based statement. But please show me why you believe He was the greatest.

A very good question to ask and an important answer to give because nothing must be said without proof. If counter proofs can be given then at least we will know that the initial statement made is no longer valid.

Firstly have you read the opening post? Please let me know if you did or did not? Thanks!

 

[EvolutionofThought]

Was led to Exodus 28



Also to Judges 14



Jen

 

[Lady B]

A very good question to ask and an important answer to give because nothing must be said without proof. If counter proofs can be given then at least we will know that the initial statement made is no longer valid.

Firstly have you read the opening post? Please let me know if you did or did not? Thanks!

Yes I did read the Opening text and the subsequent posts with the same "non Muslim" reviews I have seen in many debates over the last 2 years.

You boldly state that he was the greatest human being of all time, this means he was the greatest human being of all time to all people does it not? So what did he do for me? For the Jew the Hindu or the atheist? What great things can we all relate to and agree with your great statement?

In my humble opinion, Mohamed did great things for Islam, those outside of Islam have no factual reasons to agree with you at all.

 

[Lady B]

Yes I did read the Opening text and the subsequent posts with the same "non Muslim" reviews I have seen in many debates over the last 2 years.

You boldly state that he was the greatest human being of all time, this means he was the greatest human being of all time to all people does it not? So what did he do for me? For the Jew the Hindu or the atheist? What great things can we all relate to and agree with your great statement?

In my humble opinion, Mohamed did great things for Islam, those outside of Islam have no factual reasons to agree with you at all.

Sorry I hit submit before I finished...

If you would have said " Mohamed was the greatest human being of all Islam, well we don't have much to debate do we? But because you speak for all of us, perhaps you can back up this statement for things done for all of us. OK I am finished now...

 

[FearGod]

OK I will bite...why Is Mohamed The greatest man who ever lived? What did he accomplish above and beyond anyone else? Even accomplishments are subjective are they not? I am not arguing for or against your opinion, and yes I agree of course it is an opinion not a fact based statement. But please show me why you believe He was the greatest.

The great character of Mohammed pbuh can't be just described in few words,but just tell me one person in our history care to recommend the world for some commandments once he got the knowledge that his days on earth will come to an end that he asked the people to be gathered for his final speech that his close friend Abu Baker cried once the prophet start to speak,Abu Baker did know as others that the prophet is going to leave earth very soon that the audience cried while listening to him feeling it hard that they will miss the beloved one.


i don't have a lot of time,but if you wish,i'll find some websites showing you some facts about the great character of Mohammed pbuh that makes many thinkers to believe that he is the greatest person ever known through the history

[youtube]s0AeJPTC5js[/youtube]
The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammed SAW - By Bilal Assad. - YouTube

 

[Lady B]

The great character of Mohammed pbuh can't be just described in few words,but just tell me one person in our history care to recommend the world for some commandments once he got the knowledge that his days on earth will come to an end that he asked the people to be gathered for his final speech that his close friend Abu Baker cried once the prophet start to speak,Abu Baker did know as others that the prophet is going to leave earth very soon that the audience cried while listening to him feeling it hard that they will miss the beloved one.


i don't have a lot of time,but if you wish,i'll find some websites showing you some facts about the great character of Mohammed pbuh that makes many thinkers to believe that he is the greatest person ever known through the history

In all due respect I have studied Mohamed very well, I have no hard words to say of him,aside from some controversy he was wise and had a true love of God and dedicated his life to do that which God asked of him. Of course he was loved by his close friends and followers,of course they cried, of course they missed him greatly I can say the same for many great men. This proves only that he was the greatest man who ever lived to them and you who follow him right?

 

[horizon_mj1]

I have come across so many misconceptions on this forum and many other forums from many members about the Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of God be upon him). As I hold all the Prophets of God in honor and respect it is necessary for me to come to the defense without delay of this last great messenger prophet of God the all-Mighty and Mightier.

Approximately six hundred years after the ascension of The Christ (D+) came Muhammad (S+). In 610 ACE he made announcement that he was the last messenger prophet of ALLAAH (God) bringing the last divine revelation. About a hundred days before his death he presented to those who had believed the completion of a twenty three year unfolded revelation wherein it is referred to as The Recitation Reading within The Matrix of The Hidden Book.

So one resource of yours states; there are so many different Revelations, that if you only read from one resource, you are only getting pare of the True Revelation

The Recitation Reading or The Qur’aan as its function in The Arabic Language of its revelation was a direct transmission of knowledge from The Knowledge of God, The All Knower. It was then dictated by the prophet to his scribes who then wrote it down in a written script used at the time in which he was illiterate. But ALLAAH (God) also sent the letters of his written alphabet - without publicly making known their meanings - to replace the script that went before so that the words of the Book (al_kitaab) may be read with its correct symbols. But ALLAAH (God) also promised that sometime towards the end of the Era He would make known their meanings and then the entire world would see and be astounded at the Truth.

The Qur’aan is a personal one way communication that was revealed at a particular time from ALLAAH (God) to his eternal messenger on his journey and role to guide all creation throughout eternity.
It is a confirmation of the revelations and events that came before it and a detailed explanation of the Book (al_kitaab) wherein there is no uncertainty.
It is the book of the Seven Seals containing all the Models of Knowledge through which all things are explained in detail.
And it is a guide and a mercy which ALLAAH (God) had sent to those of His creation who would submit towards and believe in His Glorious Holy Name.

But as soon as the messenger of ALLAAH (God) began to deliver his message his enemies became hell bent on destroying him and his message.
One night – halfway during his life’s mission when they had planned to take his life during sleep and after he had sent his followers ahead of him – he quietly left the city of his birth – leaving behind his beloved heir to occupy his bed and his faithful companion to accompany him – and then set out towards the city that would become the place where ALLAAH (God) would again one day take his soul.
One night on his way during that hard journey across the inhospitable desert – from Makkah to Madiynah – with his enemies closing in from behind, the Prophet and his trustworthy companion were in a cave. But that night a spider came and spun a web at the entrance that confused the hasty unbelievers. Not thinking the likelihood of the prophet being in the cave and not wanting to waste any time they left in their hurried search bent on finding and bringing an end to him.
And thus it was that the prophet of peace upon whom ALLAAH (God) had sent his tranquility was saved to labour still harder on and then ultimately to return with such power that he was able to crush or forgive all his enemies.

Many well known books have been written about the life of this extraordinary and humble prophet of Islaam. He was a great and an outstanding man of many dimensions. His influence upon all facets of the world has never stopped growing. In fact even in our very day there is an escalation in the rise of the desire of humanity wanting to know more about and follow him in whichever way they can. The name Muhammad is now the most uttered name of any human being in the entire history or for that matter evolution of the human race. Every calculation that is made shows that Muhammad (S+) is even growing greater and greater. And no one has any reason to fear as the teaching of this compassionate and intelligent man slowly becomes the teaching of the human race. Only the Fools and the Ungrateful ones among humanity can hate a man like Muhammad (S+). Even if you are one of those who do not believe in his mission right now he still deserves your full respect because he has been the cause of many good things to you that you may as yet have no knowledge of. May the peace and salutations of ALLAAH (God) be upon Muhammad and his family and his companions.

I have selected some quotations about what some non-Muslim historians have written about the Prophet (S+). I shall make them known in subsequent posts

Blessed be unto all Sacred and Divine Ones who had trod before us, and let us not forget the Blessing of the Truth which lays within Science, Knowledge and Tangible Reality

 

[al-amiyr]

Yes I did read the Opening text and the subsequent posts with the same "non Muslim" reviews I have seen in many debates over the last 2 years.

You boldly state that he was the greatest human being of all time, this means he was the greatest human being of all time to all people does it not? So what did he do for me? For the Jew the Hindu or the atheist? What great things can we all relate to and agree with your great statement?

In my humble opinion, Mohamed did great things for Islam, those outside of Islam have no factual reasons to agree with you at all.

I can regard Isaac Newton as the greatest scientist of all time even if he was not following what I believe. I am not speaking about belief. Every person has his or her estimation who the greatest is. You are one hundred percent correct there. I am speaking about achievements from many angles.
Let me tell you a story about how the prophet Muhammad addressed the same issue.
One day a Muslim Man an a Jewish man concluded a business contract. The Jew said by, "Moses who is the greatest of all." The Muslim slapped the Jew in the face and said, "by Muhammad who is the greatest of all." The Jew went to complain to the prophet and told the prophet what had happened. The prophet called the Muslim and said, " did you know that when the hour comes everyone will be knocked unconscious including me but I will be the first to awake and then I will see Moses at the throne of God and would not know in what state he was".

Look how humble the Prophet (S+) was.

 

[Lady B]

I can regard Isaac Newton as the greatest scientist of all time even if he was not following what I believe. I am not speaking about belief. Every person has his or her estimation who the greatest is. You are one hundred percent correct there. I am speaking about achievements from many angles.
Let me tell you a story about how the prophet Muhammad addressed the same issue.
One day a Muslim Man an a Jewish man concluded a business contract. The Jew said by, "Moses who is the greatest of all." The Muslim slapped the Jew in the face and said, "by Muhammad who is the greatest of all." The Jew went to complain to the prophet and told the prophet what had happened. The prophet called the Muslim and said, " did you know that when the hour comes everyone will be knocked unconscious including me but I will be the first to awake and then I will see Moses at the throne of God and would not know in what state he was".

Look how humble the Prophet (S+) was.

Ok let me address humbleness of Mohamed. In his great night journey into the 7 heavens did he not tell his followers that he passed Moses and other prophets on his way to the throne? And when he was at the entrance even the angel Gabriel could not enter, only Mohammad entered and spoke to God. As he departed Moses said to him go ask God for a smaller number of prayer times per day as if only Mohammad had power to negotiate with God.He went back numerous times until the number was down to 5. One Hadith has Mohammad saying his own name is on or above the throne of God.

This is not humbleness my friend, I am not disrespecting your prophet I am pointing out an opposite view taken from your Hadiths.

 

[al-amiyr]

Ok let me address humbleness of Mohamed. In his great night journey into the 7 heavens did he not tell his followers that he passed Moses and other prophets on his way to the throne? And when he was at the entrance even the angel Gabriel could not enter, only Mohammad entered and spoke to God. As he departed Moses said to him go ask God for a smaller number of prayer times per day as if only Mohammad had power to negotiate with God.He went back numerous times until the number was down to 5. One Hadith has Mohammad saying his own name is on or above the throne of God.

This is not humbleness my friend, I am not disrespecting your prophet I am pointing out an opposite view taken from your Hadiths.

It is either like that or it is not. I am one who believes that that is his status in the presence of God. Others do not and I do not hold them to it. You might hold Jesus to sit at the right hand of God. I don't debate belief. I debate the books.If the books can stand then the teaching stands. I can prove what I believe and until that time I have done so then what I say is questionable.

 

[Lady B]

It is either like that or it is not. I am one who believes that that is his status in the presence of God. Others do not and I do not hold them to it. You might hold Jesus to sit at the right hand of God. I don't debate belief. I debate the books.If the books can stand then the teaching stands. I can prove what I believe and until that time I have done so then what I say is questionable.

I will grant you that. However...(always a however with me huh?) pssst. My nickname is zanana B can u see why ? hahaha. Anyways Jesus claimed to be the son of God not a prophet. Mohamed claimed to be a prophet but clearly the best of them all, am I right? If he and he alone was allowed into the very presence of God then was this not elevating him to the highest status in all time? This story of the night journey or some Muslims even say night vision, due to Aisha's account that he never left the bed, is reported to be spoken from Mohamed himself. May I ask what was the point in his telling this story if as you say he was so humble.

 

[al-amiyr]

I will grant you that. However...(always a however with me huh?) pssst. My nickname is zanana B can u see why ? hahaha. Anyways Jesus claimed to be the son of God not a prophet. Mohamed claimed to be a prophet but clearly the best of them all, am I right? If he and he alone was allowed into the very presence of God then was this not elevating him to the highest status in all time? This story of the night journey or some Muslims even say night vision, due to Aisha's account that he never left the bed, is reported to be spoken from Mohamed himself. May I ask what was the point in his telling this story if as you say he was so humble.

I do not agree that Jesus claimed to be the son of God. This does not take away from him the distinguished status he has in the Universe.The prophet also said that Jesus will return and shall be the ruler of the world. There are things that I do not discuss much because of the very nature of it. Not to say I will not discuss with someone who wishes. It is that it will not lead anywhere at the moment. If I had wanted to I would have discussed it or replied to it in some post. Because I like to speak about subjects in detail, this subject also opens up an encyclopedia that begins at a place far from it.
The point of telling the story is to relate what happened otherwise we would not have known it. Is it not?
I can say nothing negative about Jesus. He is Word and Spirit of God and as I said distinguished in this world and also the next.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of God and the last (end) of the Prophets. And God is Ever All-Aware of everything. S. 33:40 Hilali-Khan

The verse from Quran that you quoted, does not say Muhammad is the Last of the Prophets. The word in the verse is "KhatAm" which was a device used to seal or stamp a document to confirm or used as an ornamant on a ring.

The early Moslems did not believe, there will never be another Prophet after Muhammad.

Aisha, the wife of the Muhammad states:

"Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do not say there is no prophet after him."

Also, it is recorded that 'Khatamul Auliya means 'Seal of the believers - a title bestowed upon Ali by Muhammad. Which does not mean Ali was the final believer.
So the word "KhatAm" does not necessarily mean the Last.
Should Allah wanted to close every door to another revelation, He would say that with no way to interpret differently, so, no false prophet could claim.

He did indeed claim it If you believe the hadiths

The intention of Hadithes is also to say no Prophet or Messenger untill Mahdi. Another interpretation of Hadith is that within the Islamic Period, there would not come any prophets, but only Khalifs. (and this indeed happend, only khalifs came)

According to Islamic Traditions, the period of people of Muhammad is 1000 years, and after that Mahdi comes. This period is already passed.

 

[gnostic]

Muhammad (S+) thus remains historically the all time greatest.

I just wonder if Muhammad would approve of such claim?

Perhaps he would if his ego was such...then his reputation as being "humble" would be contradictory to fame as being all-time greatest.

But that a matter of opinion. I don't know him, for never met him, so I don't know his personality or his desires.

But would Muhammad like people, such as yourself, elevating him to such great heights?

I think it is more of your ego than his.