The hated muslim

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Why do you guys think non-muslims dislike us so much? I'm not talking about just having some misunderstanding. I am talking about all out hatred for Islam. Islam is generally referred to as a threat to the world and dangerous. Why do you guys think this is the case? Why is there such a push to get rid of Islam altogether?

 

[Djamila]

It depends on the region. If we're talking about Bosnian Muslims and why we were the victims of genocide, it's because of history. Christian nationalists view us as the remnants of an Empire they despise, as domestic collaborators - a similar dynamic was behind the Armenian genocide.

If we're talking about America, I believe it's often just a continuation of fundamentalist Christian xenophobia, based in ignorance and a lack of genuine exposure to people who are different. Those who don't fit into this category, in my experience, often have indirect personal reasons to feel the way they do - ie Jewish nationalists, Armenian immigrants, etc.

But most of the hatred I've encountered, from people of all backgrounds, has been based in ignorance. A small minority (5% maybe?) hold their beliefs with enthusiasm and would turn away evidence contrary to what they believe. The rest would be just shocked and pleasantly surprised by a week-long holiday to Turkey or the United Arab Emirates.

 

[goraya15]

I was about to post a thread asking the same question.

Anyways, my personal opinion, although a lot of you might disagree, is that it is mostly the fault of the muslims that the world sees us as terrorists and blood-thirsty, ignorant tyrnats now. At every media outlet these days, all you can read about is the atrocious behaviour of muslims, especially in the middle east, and now from the west as well. How many other relgiious adherents in this day try to blow each other and everyone else up with suicide bombs and airplanes? It also doens't help that at every corner, we act as a mob, and not at all as the disciplined disciples that we read about who were under the Holy Prophet pbuh. Take the example of the cartoons about the Holy Prophet. Instead of strongly voicing our opinions to the newspaper and the world about how the cartoons made us feel, as well as teaching them about the true nature of the holy prophet pbuh, the muslims made a disgrace of themselves. They started riots, burned buildings, the whole 9 yards, so to speak. The factional riots that have almost regressed into civil war in Iraq are also not helping the image of a scholarly, pious muslim. Oh yea, the constant threats that the world receives from terrorist organizations that stupidly portray themselves as mujaddids, mujahideeds, martyrs , whatever, all for the glory of Islam and the Prophet. How can some people not start to hate us, if all they hear is that we are ready to kill each other, and them as well, for the sake of a tyrannical and bloody religion?

Now i kno that the vast majority of muslims are not like that, and most wouldn't dream of violence, but they are also partly to blame. Those Muslims should be out in force, protecting the name of the Holy Prophet pbuh and Islam from the the ravages of those so called muslims and the western world, not with the sword, but with the pen. Alast, at the very least, i don't see that happening.

Hatred can only happen in the absence of understanding. Without the knowledge of the true Islam and what it really means to be a Muslim, im afraid many people in the future will learn to hate, fear and despise Islam.

 

[Buttercup]

Why do you guys think non-muslims dislike us so much? I'm not talking about just having some misunderstanding. I am talking about all out hatred for Islam. Islam is generally referred to as a threat to the world and dangerous. Why do you guys think this is the case? Why is there such a push to get rid of Islam altogether?

Personally, I don't hate Muslims at all. But, then again I keep educated in general about current events and know that the average Muslim is a good, loving person, many do not have this view though.

I have to disagree with Mila about why some Americans dislike Muslims. It has it's start with Islamic extremists unfortunately and has very little to do with fundamentalistic Christianity. We see terrorists as Islamic extremists creating havoc around the world. Some people are unable because of ignorance to dislodge the sterotype between extremists and normal Muslims. It's sad but very true.

 

[YmirGF]

Contrary to popular belief I most certainly do not hate Islam or Muslims. I do however view most Muslims I have encountered in daily life and here on RF and elsewhere as being a fairly narrow minded and often quite arrogant although that arrogance is often sublimated. One thing in particular is that, as a rule, Muslims do not come to RF to learn or share ideas, but rather, to instruct and to point out error. Meanwhile, when anyone uses a psychological mirror and bounces similar criticisms back at Muslims/Islam there is a tendency to react obstinately and a tad rude rather quickly. Frankly, like fundamentalists of any stripe, Muslims are not especially tolerant folks... in general.

For example, in another thread FullyVeiled stated recently that if someone saw her walking down the street they would think a) there goes a "holy woman" or b) there goes a crazy lady. Oddly she didn't consider people like me who just look and think, "Hmmm. There is a person who has a deep seated need to demonstrate their moral superiority in an overt way." It simply wouldn’t enter my mind that I was looking at a supposedly "holy" woman or a "crazy" person. Methinks Muslims need to take a long careful look at themselves.

 

[Judgement Day]

Contrary to popular belief I most certainly do not hate Islam or Muslims. I do however view most Muslims I have encountered in daily life and here on RF and elsewhere as being a fairly narrow minded and often quite arrogant although that arrogance is often sublimated. One thing in particular is that, as a rule, Muslims do not come to RF to learn or share ideas, but rather, to instruct and to point out error. Meanwhile, when anyone uses a psychological mirror and bounces similar criticisms back at Muslims/Islam there is a tendency to react obstinately and a tad rude rather quickly. Frankly, like fundamentalists of any stripe, Muslims are not especially tolerant folks... in general.

For example, in another thread FullyVeiled stated recently in another thread that if someone saw her walking down the street they would think a) there goes a "holy woman" or b) there goes a crazy lady. Oddly she didn't consider people like me who just look and think, "Hmmm. There is a person who has a deep seated need to demonstrate their moral superiority in an overt way." It simply wouldn’t enter my mind that I was looking at a supposedly "holy" woman or a "crazy" person. Methinks Muslims need to take a long careful look at themselves.

I disagree with you Paul. I tend to see that you are trying to put this whole idea of yours onto the majority of Muslims. I fail to see how you can judge Muslims are narrow minded when you can only see the flaw in Muslims in particular. Muslims are not narrow minded in general, look at the achievements, have you heard about the recent Nobel Prize receiver which is a Muslim named Muhammad Yunus who turned beggars into businessmen, who lended money to the poor without picking up any interest in return, who gave hope to children to continue their education. I am sad to see you see Muslims only on the bad side of the coin.

 

[Sunstone]

Why do you guys think non-muslims dislike us so much? I'm not talking about just having some misunderstanding. I am talking about all out hatred for Islam. Islam is generally referred to as a threat to the world and dangerous. Why do you guys think this is the case? Why is there such a push to get rid of Islam altogether?

I think part of the problem, at least in America, are the bimbo talk show hosts who have stereotyped Muslims as backwards fanatics who hate the West.

 

[Sunstone]

Contrary to popular belief I most certainly do not hate Islam or Muslims. I do however view most Muslims I have encountered in daily life and here on RF and elsewhere as being a fairly narrow minded and often quite arrogant although that arrogance is often sublimated. One thing in particular is that, as a rule, Muslims do not come to RF to learn or share ideas, but rather, to instruct and to point out error. Meanwhile, when anyone uses a psychological mirror and bounces similar criticisms back at Muslims/Islam there is a tendency to react obstinately and a tad rude rather quickly. Frankly, like fundamentalists of any stripe, Muslims are not especially tolerant folks... in general.

For example, in another thread FullyVeiled stated recently in another thread that if someone saw her walking down the street they would think a) there goes a "holy woman" or b) there goes a crazy lady. Oddly she didn't consider people like me who just look and think, "Hmmm. There is a person who has a deep seated need to demonstrate their moral superiority in an overt way." It simply wouldn’t enter my mind that I was looking at a supposedly "holy" woman or a "crazy" person. Methinks Muslims need to take a long careful look at themselves.

I have to disagree, Paul. I think many of the Muslims on RF are anything but narrow minded. You might point to a blind spot that someone has and say, "See, this Muslim is narrow minded." But before you do that you should consider your own blind spots, because each and everyone of us has our own blind spots. The existence of a few blind spots does not make someone narrow minded.

I have a huge respect for the learnedness of many of the Muslims on this forum, and I'm rather surprised you don't see it yourself.

 

[Djamila]

I have to disagree with Mila about why some Americans dislike Muslims. It has it's start with Islamic extremists unfortunately and has very little to do with fundamentalistic Christianity. We see terrorists as Islamic extremists creating havoc around the world. Some people are unable because of ignorance to dislodge the sterotype between extremists and normal Muslims. It's sad but very true.

I agree - but I fault the Americans themselves for their views of Muslims. We all live in the same world. Why don't people in Thailand view Muslims so unfavorably? Why not in Spain? Both of these countries have had their share of problems with Islamic extremism but the same ideas expressed in the United States don't really exist.

The American media, I believe, is designed to scare people. Almost every story is about something new to be feared - whether it's the hottest Christmas toy or Muslims.

 

[jacquie4000]

I do not hate Muslims at all. I can not account for all parts of the Muslim world, I was married to a Muslim for 7 years. He was from Egypt. I must say though that they are quite the stubborn bread of men. I think alot of them do not wish to interact with us, that is a problem. When they tend to say something it is their way, and nothing you say is going to change their mind. This in itself is fine everyone is welcome to their own opinion. But for the most part they do not want to hear your opinion because what they have to say is right. That is what I found difficult. Plus alot of things in their religion and culture are so much different then ours. For the most part all of his freinds felt american women in general were sluts. This made me very mad. But at the same time I admired the way he took care of his family back home and how much family and religion meant to him. I truely believe if they can not adapt to the people and culture in america they do not belong here they should go back home. I have no problem that they are in america but they also need to respect our way of life. Like I said I just know of the Egyptian men I met and how they were. In public they can be quite funny and charming. But from what I have seen when they marry american women they treat them like dirt. I only knew a few that stayed faithfull and were nice to their american wife. Sorry I am sure their are many who are good and faithfull, but I have not seen it here.

 

[Sunstone]

The American media, I believe, is designed to scare people. Almost every story is about something new to be feared - whether it's the hottest Christmas toy or Muslims.

You might not be too far off there, Djamila. I've heard the same opinion.... that the media is in the business of scaring people... from many of my Americans friends.

In my offline life, where I've run across the most islamophobia has been with people who know the least about Islam and Muslims. So, I tend to think that for most people Islamophobia is based on ignorance.

 

[Majikthise]

The American media, I believe, is designed to scare people. Almost every story is about something new to be feared - whether it's the hottest Christmas toy or Muslims.

You are so right, but this is true IMO, of any countries media.

 

[Djamila]

I do not hate Muslims at all. I can not account for all parts of the Muslim world, I was married to a Muslim for 7 years. He was from Egypt. I must say though that they are quite the stubborn bread of men. I think alot of them do not wish to interact with us, that is a problem. When they tend to say something it is their way, and nothing you say is going to change their mind. This in itself is fine everyone is welcome to their own opinion. But for the most part they do not want to hear your opinion because what they have to say is right. That is what I found difficult.

I'd say that's a cultural phenomenon, more than a religious one, because it exists all the way from Portugal to Russia, Georgia to South Africa. But it does tend to be stronger in more traditional societies (Portugal versus Spain, for example, or Saudi Arabia verses Bahrain), which allows for an Islamic connection.

I only knew a few that stayed faithfull and were nice to their american wife.

We have the same problem in the Bosnian diaspora in the United States. A lot of Bosnians are not contented to be in the United States - and it has nothing to do with the United States, really (although it's a phenomenon that exists only in two countries where Bosnian refugees moved - the other being The Netherlands). It's just a backlash against having to move. It's like that video I posted yesterday, "One Family". The Bosnian girl was the only one, from the half dozen nationalities, who said, "I didn't want to come here." - even though all of them arrived in the US as refugees from various wars.

So, it has nothing to do with the USA itself. Many Bosnians, though, have taken this resentment at having to leave and turned it around as a wall between themselves and American society. And in such communities (for example, that in Detroit) we have a lot of problems. Every year there are a few stories of American men being beaten or even murdered for dating a Bosnian girls in Detroit. There are a few stories of heavy sentences against Bosnian criminals because they have three or more charges for drugs or some stupid criminal thing that reflects, I think, more a disregard for local laws than a lawlessness. So... you know? There's different dynamics behind these things. You really can't take them too personally. It's still wrong, of course - but it's not really about Americans.

 

[jacquie4000]

We have the same problem in the Bosnian diaspora in the United States. A lot of Bosnians are not contented to be in the United States - and it has nothing to do with the United States, really (although it's a phenomenon that exists only in two countries where Bosnian refugees moved - the other being The Netherlands). It's just a backlash against having to move. It's like that video I posted yesterday, "One Family". The Bosnian girl was the only one, from the half dozen nationalities, who said, "I didn't want to come here." - even though all of them arrived in the US as refugees from various wars

I agree with alot of your statements Djamila, however the people I speak of were not forced to leave their country. They came here for the american dream. Most of them did not even have a green card. The married american women mostly for their green card. Like I said some of them did remain with their american wife, but not most. And yes I know many other cultures can be the same. That does not mean I have to agree with the way I saw them treat their wives, because I do not.

 

[Djamila]

In my offline life, where I've run across the most islamophobia has been with people who know the least about Islam and Muslims. So, I tend to think that for most people Islamophobia is based on ignorance.

This has also been my experience - except in the Balkans. Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians who hate Muslims in the Balkans do so for reasons not really related to religion. If they hate Muslims, and this is a minority in most areas - though I would say it seems to be a majority in some cities (Trieste, Piran, Belgrade, Athens, etc.) - it is for historical reasons framed and made politically acceptable by modern events. It's ironic because many of these people celebrated these modern events, 9/11 for example - which was celebrated to a much higher degree in Christian Serbia than in any other Balkan republic, and was celebrated least of all in Kosovo - which is the closest thing to an Islamic fundamentalist region in the Balkans.

Worldwide, sometimes there are other reasons. Austrian Islamophobia, for example, I credit mainly to that country's wide-spread racism. They still call garbage bags "Turkish luggage", and so on - it's all perfectly politically acceptable.

But most of it, I agree with you.

 

[Djamila]

I agree with alot of your statements Djamila, however the people I speak of were not forced to leave their country. They came here for the american dream. Most of them did not even have a green card. The married american women mostly for their green card. Like I said some of them did remain with their american wife, but not most. And yes I know many other cultures can be the same. That does not mean I have to agree with the way I saw them treat their wives, because I do not.

I agree.

In the Egyptian example you've given... I would bet my life that this is the dynamics behind these sentiments:

Egyptians are a proud and, by regional standards, prosperous people. They have a history similar to that of Greece, they are one of the greatest powers in the history of human kind. Even though neither Greece nor Egypt has done much for the last millenium (hehehe), this pride still exists and creates a very deep-rooted sense of supremacy. Just by being Greek, or being Egyptian, you are raised with the belief you are better than those who are not. It's like the "America is the greatest country in the world" sentiment in American schools magnified 10,000 times.

So, coming to America is a shameful thing. It requires you to tuck away this pride and come to find in the US what your beloved Egypt could not provide you. And not only this, to get there you have to marry an American woman - a woman! Can you imagine it? The sons of Pharoah's marrying some ***** from San Diego just to open a restaurant to keep their fat mouths chewing in San Francisco? Oh, the agony!

It's no surprise to me, as wrong as it is, that they respond the way they do.

 

[jacquie4000]

Djamila,

Egyptians are a proud and, by regional standards, prosperous people. They have a history similar to that of Greece, they are one of the greatest powers in the history of human kind. Even though neither Greece nor Egypt has done much for the last millenium (hehehe), this pride still exists and creates a very deep-rooted sense of supremacy. Just by being Greek, or being Egyptian, you are raised with the belief you are better than those who are not. It's like the "America is the greatest country in the world" sentiment in American schools magnified 10,000 times.

So, coming to America is a shameful thing. It requires you to tuck away this pride and come to find in the US what your beloved Egypt could not provide you. And not only this, to get there you have to marry an American woman - a woman! Can you imagine it? The sons of Pharoah's marrying some ***** from San Diego just to open a restaurant to keep their fat mouths chewing in San Francisco? Oh, the agony!

It's no surprise to me, as wrong as it is, that they respond the way they do.

Yes exactly, And sometimes I will admit they think they are being insulted when they are not, because they did not quite understand what was said. And like I said I do not hate Muslims in general at all, I have many friends that are Muslim....But their are things that I do not agree to. Thank you.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Djamila, don't also ignore the fault that falls on muslims theirselves...
I ( as a muslim) don't have a problem with any religion, and I can live any where peacfully applying that place's rules...
But I think most of the people in America for instance are giving too bad reputation to Islam by their behavior...

I have a relative who is living in America for may be half a century, he and his sons and daughters are so lovely and everybody is loving them therer and their lives are peacfull...However, they keep telling me that some of their muslim friends are giving a bad attitude towards Islam...
This makes most of the American citizens scared from dealing with us, added to the over describtion that the media provides showing how muslims are scary and worth being hated...
It's a huge resposibility on muslims to change our reputation all over the world as you can, because Allah will be asking us about it in the judgment day...

 

[Djamila]

Djamila, don't also ignore the fault that falls on muslims theirselves...
I ( as a muslim) don't have a problem with any religion, and I can live any where peacfully applying that place's rules...
But I think most of the people in America for instance are giving too bad reputation to Islam by their behavior...

I have a relative who is living in America for may be half a century, he and his sons and daughters are so lovely and everybody is loving them therer and their lives are peacfull...However, they keep telling me that some of their muslim friends are giving a bad attitude towards Islam...
This makes most of the American citizens scared from dealing with us, added to the over describtion that the media provides showing how muslims are scary and worth being hated...
It's a huge resposibility on muslims to change our reputation all over the world as you can, because Allah will be asking us about it in the judgment day...

I agree to a certain extent. We should always try to demonstrate to others the beauty of our faith, always. However, I don't think we're responsible for changing people's hatred. We should do what we can, of course - but I'm not about to spend an afternoon talking with two Christian fundamentalists who don't even know Allah is the Arabic world for God, that Christians who speak Arabic use as well.

That level of ignorance just turns me off from even trying.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I agree.

In the Egyptian example you've given... I would bet my life that this is the dynamics behind these sentiments:

Egyptians are a proud and, by regional standards, prosperous people. They have a history similar to that of Greece, they are one of the greatest powers in the history of human kind. Even though neither Greece nor Egypt has done much for the last millenium (hehehe), this pride still exists and creates a very deep-rooted sense of supremacy. Just by being Greek, or being Egyptian, you are raised with the belief you are better than those who are not. It's like the "America is the greatest country in the world" sentiment in American schools magnified 10,000 times.

So, coming to America is a shameful thing. It requires you to tuck away this pride and come to find in the US what your beloved Egypt could not provide you. And not only this, to get there you have to marry an American woman - a woman! Can you imagine it? The sons of Pharoah's marrying some ***** from San Diego just to open a restaurant to keep their fat mouths chewing in San Francisco? Oh, the agony!

It's no surprise to me, as wrong as it is, that they respond the way they do.

HEY...this is too wrong...I'm Egyptian, we don't stuck by the word: ''we were great"
This is a very wrong idea...And believe me, we never try to gain our proud back this way...and you will never meat an Egyptian who keep saying how great is the Pharons

Another reason to deny this is that nowadays Egyptian are all from Arabic origins, not pharonic....There is not pharonic origins in our blood...Thats how we are not even related to them by relation..