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The hated muslim

Random

Well-Known Member
The very title of this thread does Islamic peoples no justice: do you really all want to willingly portray yourselves as victims? "Oh, poor us, everyone hates us..."

Muslims are very good @ developing a Seige Mentality to reinforce their faith: hence the preponderance of War in the faiths name.

I would recommend you stop trying to portray yourselves as the downtrodden as this will only dissapoint those receptive to you and make those who do hate you more contemptuous.

Stand up for each other as Muslims: don't stand against others as Muslims.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Godlike said:
The very title of this thread does Islamic peoples no justice: do you really all want to willingly portray yourselves as victims? "Oh, poor us, everyone hates us..."

Muslims are very good @ developing a Seige Mentality to reinforce their faith: hence the preponderance of War in the faiths name.

I would recommend you stop trying to portray yourselves as the downtrodden as this will only dissapoint those receptive to you and make those who do hate you more contemptuous.

Stand up for each other as Muslims: don't stand against others as Muslims.
I would also like to add that your average every day Muslim could do a lot for their public image if they grouped together and denounced terrorism more loudly and more often in public. I can assure you that if we had Christian extremist groups bombing and killing people by the thousands around the world, I would be screaming my head off for a solution to be had.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Buttercup said:
From my recollection, the Americans were there as part of a multi-national peace keeping force during the civil war. Do you have another version of events I'm not aware of?
Actually, I don't...thats why i was asking

The very title of this thread does Islamic peoples no justice: do you really all want to willingly portray yourselves as victims? "Oh, poor us, everyone hates us..."

Muslims are very good @ developing a Seige Mentality to reinforce their faith: hence the preponderance of War in the faiths name.

I would recommend you stop trying to portray yourselves as the downtrodden as this will only dissapoint those receptive to you and make those who do hate you more contemptuous.

Stand up for each other as Muslims: don't stand against others as Muslims.
Muslims never do that, and the thread was discussing a serious common misunderstanding....Muslims never use this attitude to reinforce their faith...

The Islamic teachings are so clear about self confidance and self pride...
But anyway, thanks for the advice..

I would also like to add that your average every day Muslim could do a lot for their public image if they grouped together and denounced terrorism more loudly and more often in public. I can assure you that if we had Christian extremist groups bombing and killing people by the thousands around the world, I would be screaming my head off for a solution to be had.
so what do you want us to do??
Just provide a solution and don't pop up a problem....If you were in my situation, what would you do??

Try answering this question..and you will find how hard it's
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
fullyveiled muslimah said:
Why do you guys think non-muslims dislike us so much? I'm not talking about just having some misunderstanding. I am talking about all out hatred for Islam. Islam is generally referred to as a threat to the world and dangerous. Why do you guys think this is the case? Why is there such a push to get rid of Islam altogether?

I think a lot of Christians would address the very same questions to Radical Islamists.

And sadly, there are people who won't accept that RADICAL Islam and True Islam are NOT one in the same. The individuals who bombed the world trade towers weren't people like yourself.

There are hateful people in this world, of all walks of life who, by their actions, give people incorrect impressions of religions and cultures.

Islam isn't a threat to this world anymore than any other religions. Hateful and radical individuals are a threat to this world. These people aren't driven by goodness and faith. These people are driven by hate.

Take heart in knowing that there are many people, myself included who care very much about Muslims and wish the very best for them and CAN differentiate between Islam and hatred.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
Godlike said:
The very title of this thread does Islamic peoples no justice: do you really all want to willingly portray yourselves as victims? "Oh, poor us, everyone hates us..."

Muslims are very good @ developing a Seige Mentality to reinforce their faith: hence the preponderance of War in the faiths name.

I would recommend you stop trying to portray yourselves as the downtrodden as this will only dissapoint those receptive to you and make those who do hate you more contemptuous.

Stand up for each other as Muslims: don't stand against others as Muslims.

I take a bit of offence to this presumption that I named the thread thusly because I wanted sympathisers. I never wish to portray myself as a victim, but when things happen they happen. Some people do actually hate muslims. I wasn't directing it specifically at the people here on RF although I am speaking to you guys. I don't make a habit of developing a seige mentality. I am not portraying myself as anything least of all downtrodden. However I do notice people's fear of us. Most of which is unjustified. The muslim community in Chicago has been a visible presence for the last 50 -60 years. Never once have we gathered together to do harm or in anyway sabotage the surrounding communities which are overwhelmingly non-muslim. Many food pantries were opened by muslims, and charity work have been done by us. We open our masajid for people who wish to learn more. This was not done in an attempt to bolster our image, this is just what we do. Now the people who have been accustomed to us all along, dislike us and disassociate from us except a few.

So yes I stand witht he others in my community as muslims together. I have never in my life stood in opposition to the non-muslims in my community.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
EiNsTeiN said:
Actually, I don't...thats why i was asking
Oh ok, when you said this, I thought you implied we were terrorists. :)

Einstein said:
(I would like to record a comment....Why was the American marines there in Lebanon??...just think about it)...we need to really define the term terrorism:rolleyes:

so what do you want us to do??
Just provide a solution and don't pop up a problem....If you were in my situation, what would you do??

Try answering this question..and you will find how hard it's
I know it is a difficult solution. I'm basically just answering the question in the OP of why people may not be supportive of Muslims. I know the majority of you are wonderful people. I would just like to see peace loving, kind and generous Muslims featured more often on the nightly news than the Islamic suicide bombers. But, the news companies love controversy and war stories don't they? How can we get the word out that Muslims are not what we see on the nightly news?

I feel in some way moderate Muslims are a key to understanding extremist Muslims. You of course know more about your faith than those of us who are not Muslim. We don't understand how extremists can distort your teachings so terribly. Just as Hitler tried to distort Chritianity and use Christianity as a shield....we need to understand why/how extremists distort the Koran.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Buttercup said:
Oh ok, when you said this, I thought you implied we were terrorists. :)

Well, I don't know much about Lebanon's history, I just made a wrong preasumption about the existance of American marines in a free land.. :rolleyes:

I know it is a difficult solution. I'm basically just answering the question in the OP of why people may not be supportive of Muslims. I know the majority of you are wonderful people. I would just like to see peace loving, kind and generous Muslims featured more often on the nightly news than the Islamic suicide bombers. But, the news companies love controversy and war stories don't they? How can we get the word out that Muslims are not what we see on the nightly news?

I feel in some way moderate Muslims are a key to understanding extremist Muslims. You of course know more about your faith than those of us who are not Muslim. We don't understand how extremists can distort your teachings so terribly. Just as Hitler tried to distort Chritianity and use Christianity as a shield....we need to understand why/how extremists distort the Koran.
Well, I can read Micky Mouse and get some terrorism ideas out of it if you want...
Any one can view even the most perfect thing in an evil way...This actually depends on the personality and the environment I'm living in..

A positive man can view a flower as beautifull, while a negative one can view it as having to many (what I think they call) pins...
It's kind of a misunderstanding...
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
EiNsTeiN said:
Well, I can read Micky Mouse and get some terrorism ideas out of it if you want...
Any one can view even the most perfect thing in an evil way...This actually depends on the personality and the environment I'm living in..

A positive man can view a flower as beautifull, while a negative one can view it as having to many (what I think they call) pins...
It's kind of a misunderstanding...
So, I'm guessing by this answer that you basically don't care how the world views Muslims and that you can't do anything about it nor want to?
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Buttercup said:
So, I'm guessing by this answer that you basically don't care how the world views Muslims and that you can't do anything about it nor want to?
I didn't say that, I was just answering:

We don't understand how extremists can distort your teachings so terribly

And thats how:

Well, I can read Micky Mouse and get some terrorism ideas out of it if you want...
Any one can view even the most perfect thing in an evil way...This actually depends on the personality and the environment I'm living in..

A positive man can view a flower as beautifull, while a negative one can view it as having to many (what I think they call) pins...
It's kind of a misunderstanding...
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
Contrary to popular belief I most certainly do not hate Islam or Muslims. I do however view most Muslims I have encountered in daily life and here on RF and elsewhere as being a fairly narrow minded and often quite arrogant although that arrogance is often sublimated.

I don't have an arrogant bone in my body, but if standing firmly by your beliefs is arrogance them I am guilty of it. I don't think of myself as narrow-minded either. I have already become convinced that I have found the correct way of life, but don't look down on others who have not become convinced of the same things I have. I come to religious forums because I am interested in what other people think about religions and sprituality. I didn't come to these forums with the object of converting anyone. Anyone here can verify that I have not contacted through PM or otherwise the non-muslims on this forum with the intention of proselytizing them. I feel I have exhibited good character to the best of my ability even when angered. I try to stay away from snide, rude, and inflammatory comments as much as I possibly can in order to cool down hostilities that can easily arise with the topic at hand i.e., people's religions.

I have tried to strike up topics that affect us equally as a issue for people irrespective of religious background. Like the thread "entertained to death", was aimed at starting a discussion/debate about how technology either improves or destroys us. People though it was a cool thread but apperntly not cool enough to talk about it as it died quickly. I made another thread that was funny aimed at lightening this place up a bit. That was actually funny though as many people responded. I like to make people laugh as that is my nature, so I liked the positive response to it. I don't think I have ever started a thread that was aimed at the forums in general that were meant to instruct and teach. But would that be so bad if I did? Shouldn't all of us be teaching the others about what we believe while at the same time not being a jerk off about it?




One thing in particular is that, as a rule, Muslims do not come to RF to learn or share ideas, but rather, to instruct and to point out error.


A rather broad statement presented as a fact. I feel as though since we are all here, we have to be ready to be challenged on why we believe what we believe. When I log on (well I never really log off) I try to check my feelings at the door. People are gonna challenge me, and it is my job not to see every question as an attack. I try to think about the positions of other people and where they are coming from, instead of blowing it off and dismissing it as unimportant, or unworthy to be addressed.


Meanwhile, when anyone uses a psychological mirror and bounces similar criticisms back at Muslims/Islam there is a tendency to react obstinately and a tad rude rather quickly
.

There have in the past been as many as six different threads running at the same time witht he same topic....violence in Islam. These threads were full of criticisms ranging from contructive to destructive and downright inflammatory. I think we handled it rather well as a whole. Sure we got frustrated and angry, but we are human beings with a range of emotions like everyone else. It is hard hearing that people view you negatively, when neither you nor the other muslims you know have ever done anything to provoke that feeling. It is well nigh impossible to have to answer for the wrong-doings of a person half way across the world simply because you share a belief system with them. It is hard hearing that muslims hate the west when we come from the west. Many of us were born here and converted to Islam. We don't know the mindset or the condition of people elsewhere. We have been here with you guys, privy to the same media and way of life as the rest of the western people. It is hard hearing that people want you to go back to the country you came from since you hate americans, when we came from america. This is the country I came from, and while I detest the government of thise country for many reasons, I have nothing against it's people at large. Muslims have been living in America for so many years. If we hated it and wanted to do away with it, what better place to start then on the inside? If we are demanded by our religion to kill all non-muslims, then why have we not done it? Are we afraid? Nope. Just not what we're about.



For example, in another thread FullyVeiled stated recently in another thread that if someone saw her walking down the street they would think a) there goes a "holy woman" or b) there goes a crazy lady. Oddly she didn't consider people like me who just look and think, "Hmmm. There is a person who has a deep seated need to demonstrate their moral superiority in an overt way." It simply wouldn’t enter my mind that I was looking at a supposedly "holy" woman or a "crazy" person. Methinks Muslims need to take a long careful look at themselves

When people do get the courage to talk to me they tell me they thought I was religious woman, or a holy woman. That was not a statement of arrogance, hence the words were placed in quotations. I didn't say I was pious. It is common to think people are religious when you see them in a religious type garb.

(This is what I mean. I had to just explain the finest point in a post I made a while back. I must guard every single word so as not to offend or make myself come off as superior to any one else. This stifles my ability to express what I mean becuase I have to temper every post with apologies if I offend, rather than ask the question or make a reply to a question. See, I haven't thought about that statement since I made it. It was nothing to me, but apparently Ymir took it as a statement of arrogance on my part. Wonder what else he has gleaned about me from what I write?)

Why would my dress indicate a "superiority"? You know, when people say things like "you think your bettter than me" when in fact you have not demonstrated that in neither word nor deed, it usually means they feel inferior to you for some reason and are merely projecting that onto you. You don't know me so again you have no idea of my behaviour when out and about. I mind my business when I'm out alone. I strike up a conversation with strangers when I feel it opportune. People are meet my sudden talking with surprise as they thought I couldn't talk, disgust that I am talking to them, or pleasant surprise that I seem quite personable and am pretty funny when I get going. I don't glide along the floor in my morally superior clothing, looking down my veil condescendingly at those morally inferior creatures called "infidels", as they cower in my presence. I don't push out the vibe of that either.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
EiNsTeiN said:
Every religion could pass through hard time, and remember that in the dark ages the situation was completely reversed, Islam was the biggest empire with all the science and technology and peace, while Europe was so ignorant and full of wars and terrorism...

A point I make from time to time myself...

(I would like to record a comment....Why was the American marines there in Lebanon??...just think about it)...we need to really define the term terrorism:rolleyes:

That's a hefty thread topic in its own right, you know!
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
YmirGF said:
Frankly, like fundamentalists of any stripe, Muslims are not especially tolerant folks... in general.

I think YmirGF makes some great points in his post and to use this quote as a jumping point:

Though I don't have reason to hate Islam, I do hate radical (fundamentalist) Islam - the Islam where people commit acts of suicide and violence against others. If there was anything I would chide mainstream Muslims for, it would be not being proactive enough against the terrorist elements of the extremist interpretation of their faith. I think they should speak louder against the extremists and take a more active role dealing with terrorists. I see many Muslims simply acting as apologists for the extremists. Fortunately, very few of the Muslims on this forum fit this mold, which is encouraging. Now by no means do I mean to imply that I view the vast majority of mainstream Muslims are like this, but it is a criticism I feel is just and I could just as easily apply to Christianity, if that were the topic of discussion (in other words, it's nothing really personal, guys).
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Buttercup said:
Sorry, but your post did not help in any way whatsoever.
Well, it seems like your problem...cuz my post explains it clearly!!
That's a hefty thread topic in its own right, you know!
Ya...it was just a comment based on my ignorance of history...
I'm sorry anyway :)

Buttercup
I care of course about how everybody is viewing Islam, and don't try to trick me, cuz I made myself clear I guess
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Though I don't have reason to hate Islam, I do hate radical (fundamentalist) Islam
Everybody does, even we muslims....everybody hates radicals in any religion in general...
The problem that we are trying to show is that even if a perfect muslim is there, the first react towards him is awarness and being carefull...as if all muslims are wearing bomb belts!!

It's a general attitude towards Islam...some people are not imagining the idea of the presence of a good muslim!!
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
fullyveiled muslimah said:
Why do you guys think non-muslims dislike us so much? I'm not talking about just having some misunderstanding. I am talking about all out hatred for Islam. Islam is generally referred to as a threat to the world and dangerous. Why do you guys think this is the case? Why is there such a push to get rid of Islam altogether?

Our government managed to get reelected at the end of 2001 by blurring the distinction between refugees (re: Tampa) and terrorists. Australia had its first racist election. The common denominator is Muslim. There is not so much a campaign to get rid of Islam in Australia as a cynical manipulation of public opinion towards fear of Islam by the current executive. Our PM preaches unity of Australians, refers to quintessential Australian values when he talks etc. What these values are exactly is nebulous. Muslims are used as an outgroup to reinforce this rhetoric. Muslims currently here are told to join us or you are un-Australian. The government's treatment of refugees and terrorism was a catalyst for the Cronulla riots a year ago. If the authorities ever let the refos settle in Aus they are generally accepted and go on to form a valuable part of the community. Muslims are not hated here, they are misinterpreted thanks to Howard.

Oz
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
EiNsTeiN said:
Everybody does, even we muslims....everybody hates radicals in any religion in general...
The problem that we are trying to show is that even a perfect muslim is there, the first react towards him is awarness and being carefull...as if all muslims are wearing bomb belts!!

It's a general attitude towards Islam...some people are not imagining the idea of the presence of a good muslim!!

I understand that some people do act with caution towards Muslims because they are ignorant about that religion and are fed a lot of garbage about it thanks to our media. However, there are also people (in which I include myself) who do not judge a person solely on his or her religion or appearance or what-have-you, but mainly on his or her character. The problem with many non-Muslims, as you've pointed out, is having the automatic reaction that Muslims are suspect and must be dealt with with caution. However, not all misunderstandings of Islam by non-Muslims or caution around Muslims by non-Muslims are solely due to the ignorance of that individual, but is a misunderstanding that is shared between the Muslim and the non-Muslim and both hold responsibility to clear things up. Sometimes Muslims are just as at fault as the non-Muslim for the misunderstandings.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
standing_alone said:
I understand that some people do act with caution towards Muslims because they are ignorant about that religion and are fed a lot of garbage about it thanks to our media. However, there are also people (in which I include myself) who do not judge a person solely on his or her religion or appearance or what-have-you, but mainly on his or her character. The problem with many non-Muslims, as you've pointed out, is having the automatic reaction that Muslims are suspect and must be dealt with with caution. However, not all misunderstandings of Islam by non-Muslims or caution around Muslims by non-Muslims are solely due to the ignorance of that individual, but is a misunderstanding that is shared between the Muslim and the non-Muslim and both hold responsibility to clear things up. Sometimes Muslims are just as at fault as the non-Muslim for the misunderstandings.
Sure we both share the responsibilty...
Believe me, in our countries (at least mine) lots of people also think the western people are all evil and full of hate..But to be honest we never treat people by awarness and with caution, maybe because most of our countries are open for tourism :rolleyes:
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
standing_alone said:
I think YmirGF makes some great points in his post and to use this quote as a jumping point:

Though I don't have reason to hate Islam, I do hate radical (fundamentalist) Islam - the Islam where people commit acts of suicide and violence against others. If there was anything I would chide mainstream Muslims for, it would be not being proactive enough against the terrorist elements of the extremist interpretation of their faith. I think they should speak louder against the extremists and take a more active role dealing with terrorists. I see many Muslims simply acting as apologists for the extremists. Fortunately, very few of the Muslims on this forum fit this mold, which is encouraging. Now by no means do I mean to imply that I view the vast majority of mainstream Muslims are like this, but it is a criticism I feel is just and I could just as easily apply to Christianity, if that were the topic of discussion (in other words, it's nothing really personal, guys).
Terrorists and extremists are not the only problems we face; why are you expecting that our voice should be loud when it comes to terrorism if our voice is always low or absent when it comes to anything else other than terrorism. we are suffering from poverty, illiterecy, corruption, injustice, there is no freedom, no democracy.....our bothers and sisters are killed every day in Iraq and Palestine, every kind of suffering you can imagine yet let me tell you that most of muslims used to be negative, most of them did almost nothing to solve their innumerable problems. you should also know that we suffer from terrorism just like you, maybe more, and before you even notice or care and just like many other crucial problems we face but we are almost silent. If you came and asked people at the street here in cairo for example, you would find them condemning terrorism but what can this do for solving the problem? This problem is not that simple; when i see a youth at my age embracing such extreme beliefs, i get astonished and i say to myself what makes an 18 year old youth think that if he blew himself up and killed a bunch of innocent ppl, he would go to heaven...maybe after a couple of days, i find my younger brother embracing the same belief after joining an extreme group, what do you think i should do in this case?! Those who r blowing themselves are from us, maybe my relative, my brother, my friend. How can we solve the problem? by Jail, okay but will the jail prevent many others to be "extremist" and "terrorist"??!
Islam is very clear for those who want the truth. if someone wants to kill, he will use every possible excuse to justify killing but his excuses will be very weak.

When i saw Fullyveiled muslimah's Q, only one answer came to my mind: muslims, nobody to blame except muslims; iam not talking about terrorists or extremists, iam talking about the rest of muslims, those muslims who thought Islam is just to perform a couple of prayers and read a couple of verses, just ask them what is the useful thing they do for their society, for others?, mostly you would find no answer, if they weren't harm their society in the first place! Islam is a religion of knowledge, work, thinking...the first word was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH) is to read, when you look at muslims now, most of them are ignorants...what's the good that muslims did for the world in the last years??!
Yes, there are specific groups that want to distort the image of Islam, this is not new, this is from 1400 years, but the most important is how the muslims act. Many repliers said the media has a big role in this hatred against muslims, my question is what did the muslims do to correct the misunderstanding and the ignorane about Islam?!
Muslims forgot that "al-deen al-mo'amalah" i.e. Islam is how to deal with others in the best manner. The Prophet (PBUH) had a jewish neighbor who hated the Prophet very much, every day this jewish guy threw his wastes in front of the Prophet's house door, one day the prophet (PBUH) didn't find the wastes of this guy in front of his house, he (PBUH) wondered what happened to this guy, then the Prophet visited him when he knew that he got sick, what did that jewish do when he saw the Prohet visiting him to support him while he was sick? he embraced Islam!
My point is that Islam is about the good manner; when others see the muslim's good character, they will have no reason to hate him. But the question is when will muslims return to their religion and know that "al deen al mo'amalah"?!
 
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