The hated muslim

[maro]

There is a relevant hadith that says (if memory serves) that at the end nothing would be left of Islam but its name.

That doesn't prove it applies to today, of course, but it's relevant to the subject.

Unfortunately, I am away from home, so I cannot give you the exact text of the hadith (and can't vouch for authenticity anyway), but if you want me to quote it for you, please ask me in another week -- I can find the book easily enough.

booko,this hadith is talking about the major signs of the (judgment day),when a wind will come to take the souls of all believers,so that the word (Allah)will not be mentioned on earth anymore ,

and don't forget that we still have too many prophecies in hadith that haven't occured yet

 

[maro]

the op was ,why muslims are hated?
and the average answer was , because they are terrorists and they hate the west ,
but i think it's fair to start a thread , why do some muslims hate the west?

talking about myself,i came to this forum thinking that being a non muslim ,means being an anti muslim ,

and then ,i discoverd how wrong i was ,
and i found too many rational people , from different faiths ,who can understand ,and not programmed to offend all the time ,but they may even defend islam side by side with muslims ,

but i also found that kind of people i was expecting , those who haven't read any thing from the quran except (slay them whereever you find them ) ,and whenever you try to explain ,it seems that you are talking to yourself

i agree with Not4me, that the major part of the problem is blamed on muslims ,for giving up the true manners of islam

but the other part which we shouldn't forget is , who planted the seeds of hatred ,at the first place?

why it's fair to plant the seeds ,while so unfair to gain the fruit ,

since i came here , i have heard the words (terrorism,fanatics ,bigotory ) associated with islam for thousands of times , but i have never heard it about israel,although its daily carnages, i haven't heard it about amerika ,when they invaded iraq and tortued the iraqi people in prisons ,

i am quite sure that when this world come to a more balanced state , we won't hear of the islamic extremists anymore ,
they will be busy living a normal life , with their families , on their own lands ,looking forward for the future of their contries ,

i am also sure that those people are not quite fond of leading a dangerous ,unhappy life

 

[jacquie4000]

Nice Post........You made some good points, and I respect that.

 

[maro]

Nice Post........You made some good points, and I respect that.

Thanks jacquie,and i respect you too for your open mind

and i would like to add that we r failures when it comes to propaganda ,i think we have to learn to be 1/100 of the jews ,

if any one here is amazed by the hatred of those fanatic bad guys , towards the kind west( who care for nothing , except for human rights ) , please check this link

http://www.barborana.com/from_the_lebanese_people_to_the.htm

 

[maro]

just a funny story came to my mind ,
an amerikan came to the islam forum from a short time , feeling great sympathy for the irani women , as they are banned from cheering football,
and said that if something like that happened in amerika ,it would be a big deal , as the amerikans care so much for the human rights :biglaugh:

and i didn't answer him at that time ,

but since he came to this thread ,and made a post that speaks volume ,

i am going to answer now ,

before you feel sympathy Mr. for the irani women who can't cheer football , feel sympathy for the iraqi children who died from the lack of food and medicine , for those who were tortured in prisons in a non human way ,

for the palestinians who are being eradicated every single day, blessed by your honourd country ,

and if you like reading history the way i do ,you will find a lot of things that make your kind heart feel sympathy for ,

the original natives of amerika who were eradicated , with no mercy
the slaves who were brought from afrika , in a non human trips , were millions died , and the racial discrimination they suffered from for so many years ,
the japanese people who were bombed ,
people in vitnam , afghanistan ,and for lebanon which lost every road and every bridge in the country , few months ago ,by israel , blessed by the VITO of your honourd country ,

and just an advise , if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds ,
and there is no any other way

 

[michel]

so what do you want us to do??

If you are sincere...

Gather all peace loving Muslims whose aim is not to coverty every Christian to Islam, and, amongst yourselves, denounce the terrorists who hide under the veil of Islam, and - if necessary - help the authorities to rid the West of those who would kill their innocent Christian neighbour.
I would reiterate the very good points made by these two posters........

The very title of this thread does Islamic peoples no justice: do you really all want to willingly portray yourselves as victims? "Oh, poor us, everyone hates us..."
Muslims are very good @ developing a Seige Mentality to reinforce their faith: hence the preponderance of War in the faiths name.
I would recommend you stop trying to portray yourselves as the downtrodden as this will only dissapoint those receptive to you and make those who do hate you more contemptuous.
Stand up for each other as Muslims: don't stand against others as Muslims.

I would also like to add that your average every day Muslim could do a lot for their public image if they grouped together and denounced terrorism more loudly and more often in public. I can assure you that if we had Christian extremist groups bombing and killing people by the thousands around the world, I would be screaming my head off for a solution to be had.

Additionally, stop Muslims from continually posting absurdities such as :-
Religious Education / Religious Topics / Religious Debates / Biblical Debates Proof Jesus Wasn't God

Since I have been a member here, this must be the fortieth such thread.......

 

[Sahar]

the op was ,why muslims are hated?
and the average answer was , because they are terrorists and they hate the west ,
but i think it's fair to start a thread , why do some muslims hate the west?

talking about myself,i came to this forum thinking that being a non muslim ,means being an anti muslim ,

and then ,i discoverd how wrong i was ,
and i found too many rational people , from different faiths ,who can understand ,and not programmed to offend all the time ,but they may even defend islam side by side with muslims ,

but i also found that kind of people i was expecting , those who haven't read any thing from the quran except (slay them whereever you find them ) ,and whenever you try to explain ,it seems that you are talking to yourself

i agree with Not4me, that the major part of the problem is blamed on muslims ,for giving up the true manners of islam

but the other part which we shouldn't forget is , who planted the seeds of hatred ,at the first place?

why it's fair to plant the seeds ,while so unfair to gain the fruit ,

since i came here , i have heard the words (terrorism,fanatics ,bigotory ) associated with islam for thousands of times , but i have never heard it about israel,although its daily carnages, i haven't heard it about amerika ,when they invaded iraq and tortued the iraqi people in prisons ,

i am quite sure that when this world come to a more balanced state , we won't hear of the islamic extremists anymore ,
they will be busy living a normal life , with their families , on their own lands ,looking forward for the future of their contries ,

i am also sure that those people are not quite fond of leading a dangerous ,unhappy life

just a funny story came to my mind ,
an amerikan came to the islam forum from a short time , feeling great sympathy for the irani women , as they are banned from cheering football,
and said that if something like that happened in amerika ,it would be a big deal , as the amerikans care so much for the human rights :biglaugh:

and i didn't answer him at that time ,

but since he came to this thread ,and made a post that speaks volume ,

i am going to answer now ,

before you feel sympathy Mr. for the irani women who can't cheer football , feel sympathy for the iraqi children who died from the lack of food and medicine , for those who were tortured in prisons in a non human way ,

for the palestinians who are being eradicated every single day, blessed by your honourd country ,

and if you like reading history the way i do ,you will find a lot of things that make your kind heart feel sympathy for ,

the original natives of amerika who were eradicated , with no mercy
the slaves who were brought from afrika , in a non human trips , were millions died , and the racial discrimination they suffered from for so many years ,
the japanese people who were bombed ,
people in vitnam , afghanistan ,and for lebanon which lost every road and every bridge in the country , few months ago ,by israel , blessed by the VITO of your honourd country ,

and just an advise , if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds ,
and there is no any other way

Dear Maro, wallahy these r the best posts i have ever read on this forum..very balanced, rational and wonderful words....Masha' Allah!
فتح الله عليكِ وزادكِ من علمه وفضله

 

[YmirGF]

just a funny story came to my mind

------------
piffle crop
------------

before you feel sympathy Mr. for the irani women who can't cheer football , feel sympathy for the iraqi children who died from the lack of food and medicine , for those who were tortured in prisons in a non human way,

Yes, I suppose America should have left Saddam in power. Allah knows that the Iraqi people loved their pious leader so very much. Not to mention how loved he was by his Muslim brothers and sisters in Iran and elsewhere. He was such a great guy, wasn't he?

for the palestinians who are being eradicated every single day, blessed by your honourd country,

This issue is a red herring. Why is it we never hear about Israel's right to exist? Jews have been a major force in the region for thousands of years, and yet many Muslims fail to recognize this small detail. Oh well, they are only Jews, so what does it matter, eh?

and if you like reading history the way i do ,you will find a lot of things that make your kind heart feel sympathy for

Just out of curiosity where have you grown up and been "educated", assuming of course that you are a "grown up" that is?

the original natives of amerika who were eradicated , with no mercy

the slaves who were brought from afrika , in a non human trips , were millions died , and the racial discrimination they suffered from for so many years

As a student of history you will probably understand that "human rights" is largely a concept that has only been "in effect" for perhaps the last 60 years or so. You DO understand that, correct? It is a small detail, but it is worth mentioning. Sadly, Muslim nations do not seem to quite grasp the concept as of yet. I don't think you will find too many North American's who are especially proud of the extermination of the aboriginal peoples... but as a student of history, you know that already.

the japanese people who were bombed

Yes, the Japanese in WW 2 were sweet, peace-loving people with no thoughts of conquest. They treated their prisoners with such kindness and dignity. Maybe we should send them a posthumous Nobel Prize for their noble efforts. (I take it that the removal of Adolf Hitler was OK, as you don't seem to mention it, which is odd, as the Final Solution was one of his favorite "pet projects". Ooops. I keep forgetting, the holocaust was blown out of proportion by those nasty, evil Zionists. You're a history buff, eh? Frankly the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it consumed but I am sure you must already know that being a student of history and all.)

people in vitnam,

In some regards Viet Nam was a mistake, but given the anti-communist sentiments of the era it is somewhat understandable. America was simply doing what she thought was right. In time she realized she could not win against an adversary that committed unimaginable acts to stake out its territory, as a student of history, you no doubt understand.

afghanistan,

Oh yes, that was a stupid thing wasn't it, killing all of those wonderful Taliban and then not quite finishing the job so that they could repeat the game in the present day. Does the site of women in pretty blue burka's warm your heart? Not to forget the public executions in the sports stadiums. Yep, they were indeed a wonderful loving band of people. Ahhh, the dignity, and their attention to human rights and the respect for religious icons of a bygone age were simply stellar. But what the heck, what are a few people and a couple of statues that are hundreds of years old? Their brand of Islam was so... wonderful and sound. Such charmers and I am sure that Allah is well pleased by their efforts.

and for lebanon which lost every road and every bridge in the country , few months ago ,by israel , blessed by the VITO of your honourd country ,

As a student of history you will understand that Hezbully are indeed completely fit to rule a country that cannot find the means to get rid of them themselves. Given that the Lebanese army was afraid to enter Hezbully territory and that Hezbully is essentially an Iranian "cross country" team I guess you are right. OMG, those nasty Jews have been at it again. How dare they attack a bunch of UNAUTHORIZED rebels that the host country could not control? Like... really. The nerve of those Zionists, eh!

and just an advise , if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds , and there is no any other way

Perhaps the "freedom fighters" might want to look into their own closets. Would you want Hezbulla or Hamas running YOUR country, lol? Yes, that would be wonderful wouldn't it?

Maybe car bombing, suicide bombing and rocket launching can be made into Olympic events so that these great folks can earn the recognition they so rightly deserve on a world stage. Granted suicide bombers would be difficult to train as it is sort of a one shot deal, but I am sure there are enough willing, thoughtful and loving people who will strap a pack of explosives to their bodies to make their ever so pious and subtle points. It is such a charming way to make a statement. I guess we could make a bumper sticker that reads “Hug a suicide bomber, they are such a blast.”

I know all these things make me want to break out a Qur'an and sit back for a long read of its heady prose. Have you heard the common expression in "the west" of "sticking ones head in the sand"?

Sadly, in actuality, it would appear your knowledge of history is as sound as your understanding of spelling and grammar. Oh well, at least Not4me liked your fine thinking. You have heard of "constructive thought", right?

 

[jacquie4000]

and then ,i discoverd how wrong i was ,
and i found too many rational people , from different faiths ,who can understand ,and not programmed to offend all the time ,but they may even defend islam side by side with muslims ,

but i also found that kind of people i was expecting , those who haven't read any thing from the quran except (slay them whereever you find them ) ,and whenever you try to explain ,it seems that you are talking to yourself

When I said some this is the part I was talking about. You will find this true of all religions and all people. But If you post something you know will lead to arguement which alot of you have done in the past then I do not feel sorry for the outcome.

 

[Majikthise]

just a funny story came to my mind ,
an amerikan came to the islam forum from a short time , feeling great sympathy for the irani women , as they are banned from cheering football,
and said that if something like that happened in amerika ,it would be a big deal , as the amerikans care so much for the human rights :biglaugh:

and i didn't answer him at that time ,

but since he came to this thread ,and made a post that speaks volume ,

i am going to answer now ,

before you feel sympathy Mr. for the irani women who can't cheer football , feel sympathy for the iraqi children who died from the lack of food and medicine , for those who were tortured in prisons in a non human way ,

for the palestinians who are being eradicated every single day, blessed by your honourd country ,

and if you like reading history the way i do ,you will find a lot of things that make your kind heart feel sympathy for ,

the original natives of amerika who were eradicated , with no mercy
the slaves who were brought from afrika , in a non human trips , were millions died , and the racial discrimination they suffered from for so many years ,
the japanese people who were bombed ,
people in vitnam , afghanistan ,and for lebanon which lost every road and every bridge in the country , few months ago ,by israel , blessed by the VITO of your honourd country ,

and just an advise , if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds ,
and there is no any other way

Is this how moderate ,supposedly educated Muslims view the world?
If so ,there is no hope.

 

[YmirGF]

When I said some this is the part I was talking about. You will find this true of all religions and all people. But If you post something you know will lead to arguement which alot of you have done in the past then I do not feel sorry for the outcome.

Indeed, it is akin to shooting fish in a barrel. Why is it people only think so far and then stop... like deer caught in oncoming headlights? On the surface Maro seems to be making very good point, but when you think it out it simply turns to hyperbolic mush. Sadly, it takes two to tango. Perhaps if Muslims admitted their past mistakes we just might take them seriously, until then, that is not likely. If one listens to the "run of the mill" Muslim they sound as if Islam has never done anything wrong and that Muslims are as pure as the driven snow. That is simply not realistic.

 

[Majikthise]

and then ,i discoverd how wrong i was ,
and i found too many rational people , from different faiths ,who can understand ,and not programmed to offend all the time ,but they may even defend islam side by side with muslims ,

but i also found that kind of people i was expecting , those who haven't read any thing from the quran except (slay them whereever you find them ) ,and whenever you try to explain ,it seems that you are talking to yourself

I can't believe that people don't see religion at the heart of all this.
Just because someone hasn't read the Quaran or the bible or any other so called sacred text doesn't reflect on them in any negative fashion. Yes , I am just paranoid enough to percieve all this, "you would understand if you read my sacred text" as cheap attempts at conversion rather than mutual understanding.
And so the dance continues. I need to just stop adressing this crap, but I can't.

 

[Sunstone]

IMHO, criticisms of a religion, no matter how true (or how false), seldom change much about the religion. Rather, you should look for the strengths in a religion and try to encourage them and build on them. Just my 2 cents.

 

[michel]

just a funny story came to my mind ,
an amerikan came to the islam forum from a short time , feeling great sympathy for the irani women , as they are banned from cheering football,
and said that if something like that happened in amerika ,it would be a big deal , as the amerikans care so much for the human rights :biglaugh:

and i didn't answer him at that time ,

but since he came to this thread ,and made a post that speaks volume ,

i am going to answer now ,

before you feel sympathy Mr. for the irani women who can't cheer football , feel sympathy for the iraqi children who died from the lack of food and medicine , for those who were tortured in prisons in a non human way ,

for the palestinians who are being eradicated every single day, blessed by your honourd country ,

and if you like reading history the way i do ,you will find a lot of things that make your kind heart feel sympathy for ,

the original natives of amerika who were eradicated , with no mercy
the slaves who were brought from afrika , in a non human trips , were millions died , and the racial discrimination they suffered from for so many years ,
the japanese people who were bombed ,
people in vitnam , afghanistan ,and for lebanon which lost every road and every bridge in the country , few months ago ,by israel , blessed by the VITO of your honourd country ,

and just an advise , if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds ,
and there is no any other way

if you guys want to fight terrorism , just stop planting its seeds ,
and there is no any other way

Now, that was a joke, was it not ?

 

[maro]

Yes, I suppose America should have left Saddam in power. Allah knows that the Iraqi people loved their pious leader so very much. Not to mention how loved he was by his Muslim brothers and sisters in Iran and elsewhere. He was such a great guy, wasn't he?

Sadam was there for a very long time ? so what happened now ?
and in order to remove Sadam , have they to torture the people ?

This issue is a red herring. Why is it we never hear about Israel's right to exist? Jews have been a major force in the region for thousands of years, and yet many Muslims fail to recognize this small detail. Oh well, they are only Jews, so what does it matter, eh?

have you opened the link i posted ?
open it , and you will see israeli children ,writing their wishes on the (rockets) that will kill the lebanon children,
and of course after seeing that ,we are willingly going to support its right to exist

Frankly the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it consumed but I am sure you must already know that being a student of history and all.)

no comment

In some regards Viet Nam was a mistake, but given the anti-communist sentiments of the era it is somewhat understandable. America was simply doing what she thought was right.

no comment

Oh yes, that was a stupid thing wasn't it, killing all of those wonderful Taliban and then not quite finishing the job so that they could repeat the game in the present day.

first,Taliban are not terrorists
and yes of course , they have to finish their jobs :sarcastic

How dare they attack a bunch of UNAUTHORIZED rebels that the host country could not control? Like... really. The nerve of those Zionists, eh!

Hezbollah are not rebels ,
and in their last struggle with the invading Zionists ,
they were supported by the government and people of lebanon , and blessed by the hearts of 1 billion muslims

Perhaps the "freedom fighters" might want to look into their own closets. Would you want Hezbulla or Hamas running YOUR country, lol? Yes, that would be wonderful wouldn't it?

i am sure if any one attacked my country , there will be much more wonderful 'freedom fighters ' ,
you don't know us

Maybe car bombing, suicide bombing and rocket launching can be made into Olympic events so that these great folks can earn the recognition they so rightly deserve on a world stage.

i never defended suicidal operations ,
but you know what , these people are still human beings , press on them , and they will explode

Sadly, in actuality, it would appear your knowledge of history is as sound as your understanding of spelling and grammar. Oh well, at least Not4me liked your fine thinking. You have heard of "constructive thought", right?

i know i have a bad spelling ,
but i prefer to have a bad spelling ,more than having other issues..........

 

[Majikthise]

IMHO, criticisms of a religion, no matter how true (or how false), seldom change much about the religion. Rather, you should look for the strengths in a religion and try to encourage them and build on them. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed, but.......

I will give Islam credit where credit is due. They have a great resolve however misguided. When I see many Americans blithely jumping from one ideology to another, I see my five year old watching a toy commercial saying, "I want that, I want that!!".
This is what worries me.

Advertisers could learn great lessons from religion.....they most likely already have.

 

[YmirGF]

Sadam was there for a very long time ? so what happened now ?
and in order to remove Sadam , have they to torture the people ?

Hehe. I didn't say it was right or even very wise. Frankly the Iraqi people seem to be taking the execution of Saddam Hussein very well. In fact, they seem rather delighted. I guess I am missing something.

have you opened the link i posted ?
open it , and you will see israeli children ,writing their wishes on the (rockets) that will kill the lebanon children, and of course after seeing that ,we are willingly going to support its right to exist.

Forgive me if I ignore a Bulgarian website showing of these images. For all I know these are young Lebanese children. Nice gruesome images though. Plus it is not like there are any real references to the pictures.

Maro, war is not a pretty thing. It was never intended to be. I certainly do not glory in the death of any child. Why not post some lovely images from Darfur? I never hear Muslims talking about Darfur? Why is that? When civilians are used as human shields one does have to expect unpleasant consequences. Fortunately I have a strong stomach.

In reality, you seem to fail to grasp that 9/11 simply woke America (and her allies) up. We are not frightened in the least nor are we especially angry with Muslims -- yet. Quite honestly, you don't want to know what will happen if Muslims (or anyone for that matter) really manages to upset us and make us scream for vengence. There won't be a lot left to cry over.

no comment

No real surprise there. No doubt you feel the nuking was immoral and that America should have sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives and killed every last Japanese person on their way to her arrogant, cozy and safe leadership. If America had not nuked Japan, it would have gone that way, an inch at a time and frankly there would have been nothing left to restore... Just a few blackened island graveyards.

no comment

No real surprise here either. Whatever argument you have to the contrary I can nail right between the eyes. Ho Chi Mihn was such a marvellous man wasn't he? A real sweetheart, he was.

first,Taliban are not terrorists
and yes of course , they have to finish their jobs :sarcastic

Oh yes, I keep forgetting that the Taliban are just peachy folks and totally understanding. Would you like the Taliban to run your country? I always thought that having roving "religious police" was a spectularly noble thing. I especially enjoyed those public executions in the sport stadiums. It smelled like the heady days of the Roman empire. Ahhh, the nobility and wisdom. It just reeks of holiness, doesn't it?

Hezbollah are not rebels ,
and in their last struggle with the invading Zionists ,
they were supported by the government and people of lebanon , and blessed by the hearts of 1 billion muslims

Hehe. Well, it is not like the Lebanese "army" could do a single thing to stop them anyway. Sorry you will never convince me that Hezbollah is a home grown phenomena. I am sure they would make excellent governors though. I know whenever I see images of their leader, what's his name? I always think of the kindness in his eyes and perceive the deep wisdom he reflects. I just don't know how anyone could think he was a rabid megolomaniac. Pity he didn't want to come to Canada and lead us on a path to righteousness. Yes, that would be just peachy. :sarcastic

i am sure if any one attacked my country , there will be much more wonderful 'freedom fighters ' , you don't know us

You are right, I don't know you or the "us" you refer to. For all I know you could be an American or a fellow Canadian, although I doubt it.

i never defended suicidal operations ,
but you know what , these people are still human beings , press on them , and they will explode

Actually by being supportive of Hezbully and Hamas you ARE defending these suicide operations or are you going to tell me that these are just radical factions of both groups? How silly of me, I should have realized that gun toting Muslims are the "good guys". I'm not sure how I got that wrong. You know what I would be just as revolted seeing Catholic nuns with submachine guns.

i know i have a bad spelling ,
but i prefer to have a bad spelling ,more than having other issues..........

Well, I do apologize for that, at least you can write coherent sentences unlike some of your brothers and sisters that come to RF. It was wrong of me to make such a silly personal attack.

In closing, you MUST understand that "we" do not hate Muslims or Islam. For the most part, the average North American really doesn't care about Islam in the slightest. I believe that most of us would just prefer to leave you alone and let you live in your own little world. However, when you prod a sleeping lion with a pointy stick you really have to expect to get the odd claw aimed in your direction.

Muslims, in general, MUST understand that you have ONLY awakened a sleeping giant. You ought to ponder what could happen if you manage to anger that giant. I really cannot stress that point strongly enough.

 

[Booko]

Additionally, stop Muslims from continually posting absurdities such as :-
Religious Education / Religious Topics / Religious Debates / Biblical Debates Proof Jesus Wasn't God

Since I have been a member here, this must be the fortieth such thread.......

I'm not so sure about this part, Michel. Asking Muslims not to argue for their belief about Who Jesus Was while not taking into account the many times Christians argue for their belief about Who Jesus Was seems unbalanced.

Surely it is as potentially offensive to a Muslim to suggest that Jesus was God as it would be to a Trinitarian Christian to suggest that Jesus very very special...just not God.

I'd prefer to see the Christians and Muslims try to understand (but not necessarily accept!) the views of the others, rather than argue for a point of view (and therefore *against* another).

But some people prefer more of a debate format. Let's not tag a view as "offensive" just because it's different...and challenging...and covered by many previous threads. Especially when the "other side" does exactly the same thing.

As long as no one's intentionally twisting anyone's scriptures, being personally insulting, or being impervious to alternative evidence, I see no reason why anyone should not address the topic.

 

[Booko]

In closing, you MUST understand that "we" do not hate Muslims or Islam. For the most part, the average North American really doesn't care about Islam in the slightest. I believe that most of us would just prefer to leave you alone and let you live in your own little world. However, when you prod a sleeping lion with a pointy stick you really have to expect to get the odd claw aimed in your direction.

While I agree this applies to individuals in North America, it does leave out that at least the US gov't (and some European ones as well) have done a bit of historical prodding of their own in the Muslim world, so we really shouldn't be so surprised if we get the odd claw either.

I think Maro was right to point out that we would be better off if we stopped interfering in many ways in the affairs in the Muslim World.

I know we'd be royally peeved if another nation or nations inserted themselves in our governmental affairs.

That some leaders in that part of the world have turned our interference to their advantage, to distract their people's attention away from their despotic rules in our direction, shows that in some ways they are much smarter than we are.

We would do well to reconsider how we operate in other countries of the world. We need not be wishy washy or be slight in defense of our own interests, but I can't help think of the line common among Landmark students: How's that working for you?

We've been doing pretty much the same thing for at least a century now. Um...it doesn't seem to be working too well. Maybe we should try a different approach?

Muslims, in general, MUST understand that you have ONLY awakened a sleeping giant. You ought to ponder what could happen if you manage to anger that giant. I really cannot stress that point strongly enough.

As a practical matter, yes, it cannot be stressed enough.

(Though I rather wonder if the Chinese and South America might be the next world powers if we undertook actions that would destroy Middle Eastern nations and severly undermine our own.)

 

[Ody]

and of course after seeing that ,we are willingly going to support its right to exist

When you look at the alternative...
: "The covetous, racist, and hated Jew Shylock, who cut the [pound of] flesh from Antonio's chest with the knife of hatred, invades you with his money, his modern airplanes, his missiles, and his nuclear bombs.
Dr. 'Ali 'Aqleh 'Ursan, Chairman of the Arab Writers Association in Syria, Al-Usbu' Al-Adabi (Syria), February 5, 2000.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP7200#_edn6

Special Ingredient For Jewish Holidays is Human Blood From Non-Jewish Youth
"I chose to [speak] about the Jewish holiday of Purim, because it is connected to the month of March. This holiday has some dangerous customs that will, no doubt, horrify you, and I apologize if any reader is harmed because of this."
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How the Jews Drain the Blood From Their Young Victims
"Who was Esther, and why the Jews sanctify her and act as she did, I will clarify in my article next Tuesday,[2] Allah willing. Today, I would like to tell you how human blood is spilled so it can be used for their holiday pastries. The blood is spilled in a special way. How is it done?"

"For this holiday, the victim must be a mature adolescent who is, of course, a non-Jew – that is, a Christian or a Muslim. His blood is taken and dried into granules. The cleric blends these granules into the pastry dough; they can also be saved for the next holiday. In contrast, for the Passover slaughtering, about which I intend to write one of these days, the blood of Christian and Muslim children under the age of 10 must be used, and the cleric can mix the blood [into the dough] before or after dehydration."

The Actions of the Jewish Vampires Cause Them Pleasure
"Let us now examine how the victims' blood is spilled. For this, a needle-studded barrel is used; this is a kind of barrel, about the size of the human body, with extremely sharp needles set in it on all sides. [These needles] pierce the victim's body, from the moment he is placed in the barrel."

"These needles do the job, and the victim's blood drips from him very slowly. Thus, the victim suffers dreadful torment – torment that affords the Jewish vampires great delight as they carefully monitor every detail of the blood-shedding with pleasure and love that are difficult to comprehend."

"After this barbaric display, the Jews take the spilled blood, in the bottle set in the bottom [of the needle-studded barrel], and the Jewish cleric makes his coreligionists completely happy on their holiday when he serves them the pastries in which human blood is mixed."

"There is another way to spill the blood: The victim can be slaughtered as a sheep is slaughtered, and his blood collected in a container. Or, the victim's veins can be slit in several places, letting his blood drain from his body."

"This blood is very carefully collected – as I have already noted – by the 'rabbi,' the Jewish cleric, the chef who specializes in preparing these kinds of pastries."

"The human race refuses even to look at the Jewish pastries, let alone prepare them or consume them!"[3]
Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma, "The Jewish Holiday of Purim," Al-Riyadh (Saudi Arabia), March 10, 2002.http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP35402