The Heinz Dilemma

[Epic Beard Man]

Do universal ethical principles trump legal ethical principles? In a dilemma where you want to save the one you love, are you willing to circumvent the law despite knowing it is morally wrong to steal to save your loved one, why and why not?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Do universal ethical principles trump legal ethical principles? In a dilemma where you want to save the one you love, are you willing to circumvent the law despite knowing it is morally wrong to steal to save your loved one, why and why not?

The post-conventional option might just promote anarchy, hence the realistic option is to steal and accept any punishment.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I sympathize with Inspector Javert but stand with Jean Valjean.

 

[joe1776]

Our moral intuition (conscience) seems satisfied that, in a moral dilemma, such as you describe, we should settle on the option which does the least harm. So, lying, stealing, killing... all are OK at times.

 

[Nous]

Do universal ethical principles trump legal ethical principles?

Define "legal ethical principles." I don't know what that phrase means. Do you mean just laws? If so, then the answer to your question is emphatically "yes". After all, any law can be be enacted.

 

[BSM1]

What is a universal ethical principle (just so there can be no mistake)?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Define "legal ethical principles." I don't know what that phrase means. Do you mean just laws? If so, then the answer to your question is emphatically "yes". After all, any law can be be enacted.

legal ethical principles ergo the law of the land (the video would've given clear indication). Stopping at traffic lights, obeying traffic speed etc

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What is a universal ethical principle (just so there can be no mistake)?

Universal ethical principles proposed by Kohlberg is the holding of moral principles which are seen as more important than the laws of the land.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The post-conventional option might just promote anarchy, hence the realistic option is to steal and accept any punishment.

Interesting because according to Kohlberg, only 15% reach level 3 (post-conventional).

 

[BSM1]

Universal ethical principles proposed by Kohlberg is the holding of moral principles which are seen as more important than the laws of the land.

Isn't this highly subjective by it's very nature?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Isn't this highly subjective by it's very nature?

Of course which is why it is called the Heinz Dilemma!

 

[Nous]

legal ethical principles ergo the law of the land (the video would've given clear indication).

So it would be a "legal ethical principle" if some country enacted a law that allowed husbands to burn their wives alive if the husband determine that she disobeyed him.

My answer to your question, then, is an emphatic "yes". Universal ethical principles definitely "trump" laws. I don't see how the question poses any "dilemma" whatsoever.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do universal ethical principles trump legal ethical principles? In a dilemma where you want to save the one you love, are you willing to circumvent the law despite knowing it is morally wrong to steal to save your loved one, why and why not?

Sure, but that is only the lesser half of the question, because legal principles have no ethical value. They are just rules backed by some form of political authority.

The interesting question to ask is how and when to implement general ethical principles and how, when, why and with which consequences should we go against them.

For true morality to exist, the answers will be all over the place, as people meet and develop their own moral discernments.

It is not anarchy. It is learning better according to the specific situations.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So it would be a "legal ethical principle" if some country enacted a law that allowed husbands to burn their wives alive if the husband determine that she disobeyed him.

My answer to your question, then, is an emphatic "yes". Universal ethical principles definitely "trump" laws. I don't see how the question poses any "dilemma" whatsoever.

Because the dilemma comes in the fact that if universal principle trumps the laws of the land this would lead to anarchy. Although we have shared moral values despite geographical locations, we don't have the same value systems. Laws are in place to mitigate personal impulses that may lead to destructive behavior.

 

[Nous]

Because the dilemma comes in the fact that if universal principle trumps the laws of the land this would lead to anarchy.

Utter nonsense. Recognizing the objective moral fact (or "universal ethical principle") that slavery is immoral is how slavery became illegal in the US. It did not lead to anarchy.

 

[Stevicus]

Do universal ethical principles trump legal ethical principles? In a dilemma where you want to save the one you love, are you willing to circumvent the law despite knowing it is morally wrong to steal to save your loved one, why and why not?

Apparently, I'm in the post-conventional stage of moral development, at least according to the video.

And I thought this was going to be a thread about ketchup.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sure, but that is only the lesser half of the question, because legal principles have no ethical value. They are just rules backed by some form of political authority.

The interesting question to ask is how and when to implement general ethical principles and how, when, why and with which consequences should we go against them.

The latter would lead to a slippery slope though because laws would be circumstantial based on what you're saying here..

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Utter nonsense. Recognizing the objective moral fact (or "universal ethical principle") that slavery is immoral is how slavery became illegal in the US. It did not lead to anarchy.

But that is not a universal principle because everyone did not share the same sentiments.

 

[LuisDantas]

The latter would lead to a slippery slope though because laws would be circumstantial based on what you're saying here..

Do you mean that you think laws are not or should not be circumstantial?

 

[LuisDantas]

But that is not a universal principle because everyone did not share the same sentiments.

How far from universal do you think it is, and why?