Listen -
@dybmh - I am the first to defend the rights of others - but let us face facts - part of the reason India has the second largest sheer number of Muslims is because of
forced conversions a few hundred years ago - now whether the Qu'ran has lines to justify that or the rulers came up with that all on their own - I have not studied it yet - but please do not go pretending it is not possible or did not happen - Christianity and Islam have both done this - not all the adherents in the Middle Eastern countries converted because they liked the faith.
Most respectfully, when looking at the behavior of "Muslim Rulers" in history, many people focus on the label "Muslim" and ignore the label "Rulers". The problem is not Islam. It is a people problem. People who are in power. People who "Rule".
Power corrupts people. This is why we have term limits on the executive branch of the American Government. It hasn't eliminated the corruption, but that was its intention. Its purpose was to prevent the President of the United States from becoming a "Ruler".
I believe that Islam is not evil. I believe that Muhammad might have been a good person. He might even be accurately described as "sweet".
That doesn't make me an apologist.
I 100% accept that forced conversion happened and still happens. I am 100% aware of the immoral behavior people do in the name of Islam and in the name of Muhammad.
But my approach is not apologetic, nor is it willfully ignorant. It is a practical very long range approach to removing the Qur'an and Muhammad from the hands of Terrorists and immoral people who are using them to support their immoral behavior and intentions.
I think that the Qur'an and the Hadiths are being used by immoral people to recruit, to radicalize, and to support their own immoral pursuits. But that does not mean the Qur'an is evil or bad in any way. Same goes for Muhammad. I think that the lessons and themes in the Qur'an and the life story of Muhammad are being corrupted by dangerous people.
I think this has been going on for a very long time.
I think that the Qur'an has verses in it which are easy to corrupt and easy for immoral Rulers to use to maintain and increase their power in their region. And that is the pattern you and others are accurately observing.
But I propose that the same behavior would be happening by "Christian Rulers" "Catholic Rulers" "Jewish Rulers" if those rulers are immoral and have been corrupted by power, money, and politics.
The Abrahamic Beliefs, all of them, have elements in their scripture which can be corrupted and used to subjugate the minority and to collect power by the few, the wealthy, and the elite.
The New Testament has the least ( if any ) parts that can be easily used to support an immoral power seeking Ruler. The Old Testament has some verses which are a problem if mistranslated and taken out of context. And the Qur'an has the most verses out of the three, forgive me Muslims, than can be used by immoral people to support themselves, their quest for power, and to recruit others to help them carry out their pursuits.
The natural reasonable logical response to this is: "Let's get rid of the Old Testament and the Qur'an; if they are gone, the problem is solved."
And I think that is the approach of many people. I think many people have been trying that approach for a very, very long time. And it hasn't worked.
There's many possible reasons for this. But the reasons don't matter.
In America there is an expression about insanity. What is the definition of Insanity? It is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
People have been trying to stomp out Islam from its inception. And it hasn't worked. It has been like stomping on a mushroom, ignoring the cloud of spores, and being frustrated at the end result. The end result is a whole field of mushrooms.
Many mushrooms, by the way, are healthy, tasty ( IMHO ), and beautiful. Some of them are bizarre, and some of them are deadly.
But if you don't want the dangerous ones to grow, and stomping them out only makes more mushrooms... don't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result. That is the definition of insanity.
Not only that, it's cruel. Mushrooms are alive.
Instead. First, Identify the dangerous mushrooms. Then isolate them. Be kind to them, because they are alive. Treat them with respect. Even if they seem bizarre, don't stomp on them. For the simple reason... it makes things worse.
This is my approach. Don't stomp on Islam.
Learn about Islam. Learn the Qur'an. Learn how to identify dangerous dominant people. Limit their power. Take away the verses they use to recruit, radicalize, support their immoral behavior. Render those verses inert thru exposure and education.
Change the dynamic of the region. Provide water, food, shelter, health care, education.
Recognize that Peace is not just the end goal. It is an ongoing process that needs its own support system.
All that sounds good... right? What does that have to do with me, Daniel, aka dybmh, on this forum?
What I am doing right now?
I am supporting peaceful Muslims. I am learning from them and I am using that knowledge to help communicate what is in their hearts and minds which is:
Islam is not evil.
Muhammad wasn't evil.
Religion is not the problem.
Dominant, intolerant, immoral people are the problem when these people become **Rulers**.
I'm not saying **Rulers** are evil either. I think they are dangerous. As long as they do not gain too much power, it's OK. But If they gain too much power, and too much money, for too long, that's a big problem. When this happens, it's just a matter of time before the power corrupts them.
And that is what you and others, I think, have accurately observed in the "History of Muslim / Islam as Rulers". You are observing what happens when dominant, immoral people get too much power and these people hold that power for too long.
If Islam didn't exist, these immoral dominant people would still exist. They would find other Religions to recruit and support their behavior.
Would we be better off without and any Religion? I think Atheists would say, yes. I would say, no. I think most people would agree with me.
Really it doesn't matter from a practical perspective whether or not the world would be better off without Religion, because, I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Because of that and in light of all of this, I certainly hope that you won't think my approach is apologetic. It is not. It is analytical, and it is practical.
I know very well the situation we are in. I am not willfully ignorant of the reality of the immoral forced conversions to Islam. I am fully aware of the mistreatment of women, the lack of human rights, and human dignity that is excused and promoted by people who claim to be Muslims.
And I don't think it's right. I am not apologizing for it. Not even a little bit.
The point I am trying to make is this:
The immoral behavior: I don't think it's supported in the Qur'an. I don't think it was intended by Muhammad. From my research it seems like Muhammad might have been a good person.
If anything, that makes me Optimistic not Apologetic. And that is true. I admit it. I can't help it. It is my bias. I am fortunate to have been raised in an environment which encouraged a very childish, foolish, optimistic perspective on everything.
It is a flaw in many areas.
But not here.
Here it is an asset. Because I can look at Muhammad and the Qur'an the same way so many peaceful Muslims do.
I can see it as a good Religion that has value and merit. I can understand why so many people like it. And I can use my talents to support them in their pursuit to deal with this global problem where cruel, dominant, immoral people are using their Religion to collect and maintain power.
