The Holy Spirit

[Redemptionsong]

The story, as told, is absurd. Or ridiculous, unbelievable, phony.

Anyone who reads it and doesnt notice anything wrong is satisfied with
only the most superficial analysis of what is in the bible.

Try to be more specific with your criticism. What is it about the story that you find so hard to believe?

 

[Redemptionsong]

That is true. They must know in their soul but that does not mean that the Holy Spirit lives inside their body.

The Holy Spirit reflects upon humans and is associated with their minds but it does not descend into their bodies. Entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits. The Holy Spirit do not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind while we are alive in the physical body.

You're drawing a fine line! The sensations experienced by the soul tend to take place within the body of an individual. The Spirit must 'penetrate' the body to be sensed by the soul.

This is complicated when one considers physical healing, and miracles, through the activity of the Holy Spirit. There must be something about the power of the Spirit that enables it to impact on the physical realm.

 

[Trailblazer]

You're drawing a fine line! The sensations experienced by the soul tend to take place within the body of an individual. The Spirit must 'penetrate' the body to be sensed by the soul.

That is true, because the soul works through the body while we are living in a physical body, but that does not mean that the Holy Spirit of God actually 'lives inside' of the human body.

 

[Audie]

Try to be more specific with your criticism. What is it about the story that you find so hard to believe?

It's not about me and what i find "hard to believe".
Anyone with normal good sense would notice
a fish story for what it is.
A bit of an analytical mind and some
distrust of authority ( not gullible / swallow any bait) can be helpful in life. And checking stories for plausibility.
Start with no poisonous snakes on malta.

There's plenty more.

Read the story! Pretend its about evolution
so that you will look for holes!

 

[MyM]

That is true, because the soul works through the body while we are living in a physical body, but that does not mean that the Holy Spirit of God actually 'lives inside' of the human body.

That is most definitely true....otherwise you would see every Christian out there not sinning. You know like when Jimmy Swaggart said that the holy spirit lives in him and guides him ....it guided him straight to a prostitute.

 

[Sedim Haba]

God is said to be 'Holy' and 'Spirit'. Is God, therefore, THE Holy Spirit?

Clearly, 'the Holy Spirit' means different things to different faiths. I recently read an article saying that, for Muslims, the Holy Spirit is a reference to the angel Gabriel. Is this accurate?

To a 'trinitarian' Christian, the Holy Spirit is the Father dwelling in his Church.

What do you understand the Holy Spirit to be? Is it a 'person', or a force?

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit receives little air-time on RFs. Time to address this shortcoming.

Tell me what you think.

Are you referring to Ruach HaKodesh? Or the Xian trinitarian idea? If it's that, I will not comment.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It's not about me and what i find "hard to believe".
Anyone with normal good sense would notice
a fish story for what it is.
A bit of an analytical mind and some
distrust of authority ( not gullible / swallow any bait) can be helpful in life. And checking stories for plausibility.
Start with no poisonous snakes on malta.

There's plenty more.

Read the story! Pretend its about evolution
so that you will look for holes!

You raise a question that requires investigation. Did poisonous snakes exist on the Island of Malta nearly 2000 years ago?

I'm assuming they did. Do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Are you referring to Ruach HaKodesh? Or the Xian trinitarian idea? If it's that, I will not comment.

I believe the two are of the same source.

In John 20:22 it says, 'And when he [Jesus] had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:' This is an echo of Genesis 2:7.

 

[Sedim Haba]

I believe the two are of the same source.

In John 20:22 it says, 'And when he [Jesus] had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:' This is an echo of Genesis 2:7.

Well, they're not. And I don't accept John as 'scripture'. So I guess I'm outa here.

 

[Redemptionsong]

That is most definitely true....otherwise you would see every Christian out there not sinning. You know like when Jimmy Swaggart said that the holy spirit lives in him and guides him ....it guided him straight to a prostitute.

You must remember that, for Christians, there continues to be a struggle between the flesh and Spirit whilst in the body. It's only as Christians walk by the Spirit that they walk sinlessly. The choice to walk after the flesh becomes a Christian's own choice. Swaggart made that choice...but probably regretted it!

 

[MyM]

You must remember that, for Christians, there continues to be a struggle between the flesh and Spirit whilst we remain in the body. It's only as we walk by the Spirit that we walk sinlessly. The choice to walk after the flesh becomes our own choice. Swaggart made that choice...but probably regretted it!

I was a Christian, First Baptist born again for years. I know all about "what" goes on.

I seriously doubt any Christian knows what "walking in the spirit" means. It's a contradiction in terms. Jimmy Swaggart KNEW AND KNOWS exactly what he is doing, was doing and what...do you really think he abandoned the holy spirit when he slept with that prostitute? It's a game. He swears on tv and in sermons, and in lessons and books etc, and that he is living proof the holy spirit lives within him yet he goes and does this and it probably ISN'T the first time....this time he just got caught.
Many say the holy spirit keeps you from sinning. No one can prove that just like they can't prove that man came from apes.

It's like a free "get out of situations" card.

In Islam, what keeps a person from sinning is Taqwa "bewaring of Allah" To know that Allah is watching you in everything you do. The fear of Allah helps one abstain from sin. Just like the old and new testament preaches. Islam teaches to beware of everything you do. For everything you do is being recorded in your book of records. On the Day of Judgement, you will be handed your book. Woe to those whose books are heavy with evilness and sins...and those who take it in their left hand. And the punishments in the grave. Everyone will know what awaits them ahead.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Well, they're not. And I don't accept John as 'scripture'. So I guess I'm outa here.

Maybe you can say a little more about the role of the Holy Spirit on earth, as you see it.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I was a Christian, First Baptist born again for years. I know all about "what" goes on.

I seriously doubt any Christian knows what "walking in the spirit" means. It's a contradiction in terms. Jimmy Swaggart KNEW AND KNOWS exactly what he is doing, was doing and what...do you really think he abandoned the holy spirit when he slept with that prostitute? It's a game. He swears on tv and in sermons, and in lessons and books etc, and that he is living proof the holy spirit lives within him yet he goes and does this and it probably ISN'T the first time....this time he just got caught.
Many say the holy spirit keeps you from sinning. No one can prove that just like they can't prove that man came from apes.

It's like a free "get out of situations" card.

In Islam, what keeps a person from sinning is Taqwa "bewaring of Allah" To know that Allah is watching you in everything you do. The fear of Allah helps one abstain from sin. Just like the old and new testament preaches. Islam teaches to beware of everything you do. For everything you do is being recorded in your book of records. On the Day of Judgement, you will be handed your book. Woe to those whose books are heavy with evilness and sins...and those who take it in their left hand. And the punishments in the grave. Everyone will know what awaits them ahead.

Of course, Jimmy Swaggart definitely knew what he was doing! This is why you cannot blame the Holy Spirit. Even when a person is 'born again' they do not lose freewill. Why else would Peter denounce those that, having known the ways of righteousness, turn back to their old ways [2 Peter 2:20]?

What you are claiming is that living under law is the way of God's righteousness. It's not. The way of grace is God's righteousness.

 

[MyM]

Maybe you can say a little more about the role of the Holy Spirit on earth, as you see it.

okies

The holy spirit in Islam (not the shi'ea version) the majority of the scholars and according to the Messenger of Allah pbuh, there are authenticated ahadith (sayings and teachings of Mohammad pbuh) that he attributed the holy spirit to angel Jibreel. Called Ruuh or Ruh ul Qudus.

Ruuh also means SOUL. Your own nafs is considered your self conscious.

“The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) [created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilaah (God), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”
an-Nisa’ 4:171

Surah 17 Al-Isra, Ayat 85-85
وَيَسۡـئَلُوۡنَكَ عَنِ الرُّوۡحِ ؕ قُلِ الرُّوۡحُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِ رَبِّىۡ وَمَاۤ اُوۡتِيۡتُمۡ مِّنَ الۡعِلۡمِ اِلَّا قَلِيۡلًا‏ ﴿17:85﴾

(17:85) They ask you about "the spirit". Say: "The spirit descends by the command of my Lord, but you have been given only a little knowledge."

So in Islam, we do not say what we do not know concerning the soul.


and Allah knows best

 

[MyM]

Of course, Jimmy Swaggart definitely knew what he was doing! This is why you cannot blame the Holy Spirit. Even when a person is 'born again' they do not lose freewill. Why else would Peter denounce those that, having known the ways of righteousness, turn back to their old ways [2 Peter 2:20]?

What you are claiming is that living under law is the way of God's righteousness. It's not. The way of grace is God's righteousness.

Then what is the use of the Holy Spirit if man can think for themselves?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Then what is the use of the Holy Spirit if man can think for themselves?

A man can make the choice to follow God's voice (the Holy Spirit) and not the voice of his 'flesh'.

 

[Audie]

You raise a question that requires investigation. Did poisonous snakes exist on the Island of Malta nearly 2000 years ago?

I'm assuming they did. Do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

Of course you would ASSUNE that.
No records indicate they ever did.

So, not impossible, but, a bit less probable.

Are you able to note any other deficits, having
missed that one?

Try to imagine picking up a snake and not noticing its not a stick.
Seriously? Vipers are notoriously quick to bite. They are not hsrd
and siff like a stick.
That would a funny to re enact in court. Toss some sticks and a snake
on the floor, show how you gather sticks and snake, carry them about
without noticing the snake. : D

 

[MyM]

A man can make the choice to follow God's voice (the Holy Spirit) and not the voice of his 'flesh'.

If you think about it, why would he even need to follow the Holy Spirit? Once you believe that he died for you and that you are baptized and saved from hell, then who is to tell you that you can't sin?

See, even the Bible tells you that you are to follow the laws and Jesus didn't create the original sin even.

Kinda all contradictory....I mean if the Bible says that the father doesn't bear the iniquities of the son etc. vice versa ...what I am sayin..is everyone is held accountable for their own actions and that means no original sin exists and when no original sin exists that Paul created btw.

and Allah knows best.

 

[Redemptionsong]

If you think about it, why would he even need to follow the Holy Spirit? Once you believe that he died for you and that you are baptized and saved from hell, then who is to tell you that you can't sin?

See, even the Bible tells you that you are to follow the laws and Jesus didn't create the original sin even.

Kinda all contradictory....I mean if the Bible says that the father doesn't bear the iniquities of the son etc. vice versa ...what I am sayin..is everyone is held accountable for their own actions and that means no original sin exists and when no original sin exists that Paul created btw.

and Allah knows best.

Let me stop you at the word 'baptism'.

What was the 'baptism' brought by Jesus Christ?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Of course you would ASSUNE that.
No records indicate they ever did.

So, not impossible, but, a bit less probable.

Are you able to note any other deficits, having
missed that one?

Try to imagine picking up a snake and not noticing its not a stick.
Seriously? Vipers are notoriously quick to bite. They are not hsrd
and siff like a stick.
That would a funny to re enact in court. Toss some sticks and a snake
on the floor, show how you gather sticks and snake, carry them about
without noticing the snake. : D

I have no problem imagining the scene.

There had just been a shipwreck. People had had to swim ashore. It was cold and raining. The local people kindly built a fire, and Paul collects sticks to help build it. As he adds his bundle of sticks to the fire a viper, hidden amongst the sticks, bites him. He shakes it off as soon as he realises that a snake has its fangs in his skin!

The locals, who must have known of these vipers, witness the scene, and think that the bite will kill Paul. But he is unaffected.

It's hardly an unbelievable story!