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The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
- Start date
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I'll repeat the same truth, namely, that 'scripture cannot be broken'.
Audie
Veteran Member
Who knows what that even means?
You cannot explain it.
In prior conversation you said that facts
are irrelevant to your beliefs.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I've explained, but you don't appear to understand!
Truth is unbroken because the reasoning is circular. One thread, or idea, connects to another so that no inconsistencies exist.
There are lots of 'facts' in scripture, but spiritual truths are discerned through faith.
Audie
Veteran Member
I understand just just fine when a person
attempts to make sense.
"Circular reasoning" means something quite different from what you seem to think.
Look it up. Its not something to tout.
But the bible is bible is not self consistent nor
is it consustentbwith reality. See " flood "
But falsehoods become spirotual truths
through faith?
Are you sure about that?
Who talked you into that?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The notion " Scriptures cannot be broken " about OT and or NT is wrong and misleading as none of these is Word of G-D, in first person, it is a third person narrative of anonymous scribes/clergy, so they cannot legitimately hide under such lame pretexes, as I understand. Right?
G-D is infallible but the scribes and the clergy are infallible, I understand. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I agree with one here, if there are no facts, then it must be fictional, I understand. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Kindly quote from Jesus, not from the Gospels said to be anonymous, for the new covenant, if any, please .Right?
I get that Jesus left nothing in writing. Right?
Regards
Audie
Veteran Member
Essentially
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
There is a particular version of 'circular reasoning' known as 'the vicious circle', or circulus in probando. It is not fallacious logic, but it's annoying to those who can't find a 'way in'!
The 'way in' is to believe the word of God.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
We agree that God is Almighty. Does an Almighty God not have the means to communicate his words accurately? Do you not believe in the prophets of God?
The greatest of the prophets is Christ. Is Christ not 'the Word of God'?
Audie
Veteran Member
Yah, whatevs
ppp
Well-Known Member
It is fallacious logic. It is fallacious whether or not your conclusion is correct. Quit being so self absorbed. Fallaciousness has nothing to do with the truth of the conclusion. A fallacious argument is an argument where the truth or falsity of the conclusion is indeterminate. In other words, your argument is lame and cannot support your conclusion. Even If it just so happens by some bizarre quirk of fate that your conclusion is true.
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
That's inaccurate. A fallacious argument occurs where there is erroneous logic, but a 'vicious circle' is not really claiming to be an argument at all!
When Jesus said, 'scripture cannot be broken', he was not offering up an argument. He was stating a truth in the form of a 'vicious circle'.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
John, the Gospel and epistle writer, knew Jesus intimately. He spent three and a half years as a disciple of Jesus (during Jesus' earthly ministry).
John was a witness to the things Jesus did, and the things Jesus said.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus says,
'Nevertheless l tell you the truth; lt is expedient for you that l go away: for if l go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if l depart, l will send him unto you'.
This promise of the Holy Spirit was made by Jesus in John's hearing.
John experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, as promised. This is recorded by Luke in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 2.
Had Jesus not been speaking the truth, the outpouring of Holy Spirit would not have taken place as prophesied.
ppp
Well-Known Member
A circular argument is an argument where one or more premises assume the conclusion.
That is mere a bald unsupported assertion.
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Hi Redemptionsong. Good afternoon. I believe there is only one place where the Holy Spirit is found and that is in the Assemblies of Yahweh (Ephesians 4:4). There is only one Body (group) where the Holy Spirit is found we read. Yahshua said he came in his Father's name (Yahshua means Yahweh is salvation) and that's why he was being rejected (John 5:43). Yahshua my Savior told us that he would send the Spirit in his name (John 14:26). Why then do most people in the world and sadly in Chr-stianity feel the name of the Father, or the Son, is a mute point? There is no way that Yahshua the Messiah's name was Jesus. Messianic Jews use the more accurate pronunciation Yeshua, but they fail to see that 'Ye' was used as a substitute for 'Yah' to distort the pronunciation of the 'ineffable' name.
Yahshua's name is explained in Matthew 1:21 21 "She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Yahshua, because he will save his people from their sins.” The footnote in the NIV says that Jesus is the greek form of the name Joshua but since there is no J sound in Hebrew it would have sounded like Yahshua.
Forgive my digression. You asked if it can be distinguished whether the Holy Spirit is a force or a person. The Holy Spirit is the personality of Yahweh living within us. It is not a person. Personality is defined as the following on Dictionary.com:
1.the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others:He has a pleasing personality.
2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities:He is a curious personality.
Personality Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
You can read Galatians 5:22-23 and see that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in the lives of people. It helps us to bring forth good fruit and these fruit are a result of law-keeping 'against such there is no law'. 1 John 4:6 says: "We are of Yahweh: he that knoweth Yahweh heareth us; he who is not of Yahweh heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."
If they are indeed two spirits in the world, a spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit) and a spirit of error, it is clear to realise that the spirit of error is not a person, just as the Holy Spirit isn't a person. Down through history, these spirit's have been at work, from Abel and Cain, all the way down through to our time. One spirit is a spirit of love, the other spirit is one of hatred. Does a person that hates the Laws of Yahweh have a spirit of love, or hatred? Cain hated the sacrificial law. He would have hated Yahweh for sending His Son Yahshua to save us.
Also to prove that the Holy Spirit is not a person I would like to bring to your mind King Saul. He lost Yahweh's Holy Spirit and Yahweh allowed an evil spirit to come in to him. When that happened, his personality seemed to take a turn for the worst. 1 Samuel 16:14 is where you can read up about this. The Holy Spirit affects our personality.
Many Chr-stians hold to the Trinity doctrine, but even they themselves don't understand it. If they had the Holy Spirit they would understand what the Spirit was instead of taking scriptures out of context and convoluting a doctrine. Yahweh is love. His Spirit is a Spirit of love. 1 John 4:7 says: "7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of Yahweh; and every one that loveth is begotten of Yahweh, and knoweth Yahweh." Love doesn't mean accepting evil. Yahshua rebuked the Pharisees calling their father the devil in John 8:44 and many other such rebukes, showing that love isn't the mushy, soft and weak attitude that you see portrayed by ministers today.
Just been reading Psalm 51 where King David pleads Yahweh not to take the Holy Spirit from him. The term 'Ruach' is #7306, from tHe root "prop. to blow i.e. breathe; only (lit.) to smell or (by impl.) perceive (fig. to anticipate, enjoy)." Number 7307, that appear in the Hebrew text, is ruach (same word), "from #7306; Wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; fig. life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extens. a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (includ. its expression and functions)" The word qadesh is #6918, "sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) Yahweh (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary..." The root #6942, qadesh, means: "to be, causatively, make or pronounce or observe as clean, ceremonially or morally." So, it is a clean, sacred, holy spirit that David desires.
You might remember when Yahshua told his disciples that they would receive the Holy Spirit he breathed on them in John 20:19 +. The Holy Spirit, the breath of Yahweh, is in the Word. We can read it and see for ourselves the wonderful personality of the Holy Spirit, but in order to receive it ourselves, we must obey what it teaches (Acts 5:32).
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I call it a statement of truth from the Word of God!
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Yes, l agree with you.
To me it's nicely summed up in Ephesians 4:6. 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all [Christ amongst], and in you all [the body of Christ].
And, l hope you've had a happy birthday!
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ppp
Well-Known Member
That is just another bald unsupported assertion. Stacking them as high as you like they will never add up to more.