the importance of Satsang

[Sha'irullah]

It is highly difficult for me to be fully engaged within the presence of others. I am just not a people person. Although I have had a strong yearning to be involved with people who share my views. But I am so heterodox in regards to my theological opinions it becomes very hard to find others that share similar views.
But I am always hoping :shout That has gotta count for something right?

 

[ratikala]

Now that all depends. One person's 'exchange of understandings' is another's overt proseltysing. So it really depends. Certainly it should go both ways.

definately no proselytism , no one should ever feel under presure to see something as vast and amasing as god in any one particular way one I hope should just feel happy in the company of others with faith

"What? You guys don't sing the arrti song? Everybody sings the aarti song. What kind of temple is this anyway? "

of course in the temple we sing aarti , pooja is performed at set times then aarti is sung , but at satsang meetings it is not so nececary to sing aarti unless of course it is aarti time and you want to sing aarti I think the mood of bhajan is different in temple , satsang could be anywhere at any time and can just be a spontanious gathering outside of temple without the need for a fixed time of worship .

I like to go to 'other' style temples occasionally, yes, but I often feel out of place, and occasionally get accosted. But its all good.

I like to go to other temples , yes prehaps I too feel a little out of place , I am allways a little worried that I might cause offence by doing somthing wrong in their eyes , I think I like it best if a member of that congregation is willing to introduce me to the temple to show me around and tell me a little about their way of worship .

but I never got accosted ? ..... except by one cristian lady who waved her finger at me and chastised me for not worshiping the one true god ,
I was so shocked that I think I smiled and said we all know god by different names :namaste
but I think my mind was thinking "forgive them lord they know not what they do "

years ago a freind gave me a tape and this was on it , .....

[youtube]7iscCrC4L-E[/youtube]
Krishna Das & Sting - Amazing Grace - Ramana Maharshi - YouTube

it made me smile when I heard it , of course I had heard it as a child from a christian perspective , but now I understand grace from a different perspective , ...but still it is amazing , so from outside christianity I have come to understand it better than I did as a child . so which ever tradition we practice or which ever way we look at it , grace of god , grace of guru , .... still it is amazing :bow:

 

[chinu]

It is highly difficult for me to be fully engaged within the presence of others. I am just not a people person. Although I have had a strong yearning to be involved with people who share my views.

Intresting.

But I am so heterodox in regards to my theological opinions it becomes very hard to find others that share similar views.

Can i know some of your theological opinions ?

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram chinu bai :namaste

My pleasure, Ratikala ji.

Ratikala ji, the word BHAJAN is the composition of two words, BHAJ + N
"BHAJ" means run, and "N" means to stop, Thus.. the true meanings of BHAJAN is to stop the "mind" from running in mundaneness, in order to get connection with God.

there is a very simmilar meaning used by tibetan buddhists where they say that mantra and recitation of sadhana protects the mind .:namaste

Yes, that "bhajan" is beneficial which helps our heart to get disconnection from this mundaneness, But people make a big mistake when they start hearing too much of these bhajans, because hearing too much of these bhajans are no more than songs, such bhajans start connecting people with each other, which gives an opposite result to the motive for which they are bing done, too much of these bhajans becomes the reason of connection rather than disconnection from this mundaneness.

yes , what you say is very valid , it is very important that we try to reflect upon what we are doing and what it means or yes , there is a great danger of enjoying the party but forgetting what we are celebrating , what we are trying to connect with .

Apart from all these bhajans. MEDITAION is also known as Bhajan, which i consider as the highest of all bhajans, which is safe and away from all kind of illusionary tricks of our MIND.

Ah yes this is the best way to engage in bhajan , to become absorbed in what is being sung .

to me there are many moods in which bhajan can be sung , kirtan can be lively and celebratory or gentle and ment for reflection .
Ah this is a very beautifull way to keep the mind fixed :bow:

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

It is highly difficult for me to be fully engaged within the presence of others. I am just not a people person. Although I have had a strong yearning to be involved with people who share my views. But I am so heterodox in regards to my theological opinions it becomes very hard to find others that share similar views.
But I am always hoping :shout That has gotta count for something right?

yes , satsang is very much about sharing faith ,
to me our individual traditions are important and are worthy of respect , but to me love of god trancends all traditions .

prehaps here you will find some shared veiws :namaste

 

[Vinayaka]

of course in the temple we sing aarti , pooja is performed at set times then aarti is sung ,

That was kind of my point. At my temple we don't do the aarti song, and I've had people come who basically say what I said in the other post. In other words, they become intolerant in my temple, because they have a preconceived notion of what a temple should be. And trust me, the opposite has happened as well.

Hindus of different sects are sometimes so very different that there really is no common ground even for satsang. Imagine putting 2 Muslims, 2 Catholics, 2 Southern Baptists, 2 Jews, in the same room and say. "Now we're going to have a mutual understanding sing-song, and all feel better for it. In the end, it all sounds good, but it might be unrealistic.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Intresting.

Can i know some of your theological opinions ?

I am heterodox to both parties, Dharmic and Islamic.

Like a Muslim, I accept the existence of 1 god only but like a Hindu I accept that god has infinite forms, attributes and names. This is the only logical concept to accept the existence of 1 god.

I denounce idolatry like a Muslim.

I do not approve of the worship or veneration of humans whether they are saints or prophets just like a Muslim.

Like a Hindu I believe in moksha and spiritual enlightenment or awareness.

I believe in the cycle of samsara which at the end it always leads to god.

I perform dhyana and meditate on the lord.

I read the Quran and Shiva Purana as well.

That is some basics in a nutshell essentially.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I am heterodox to both parties, Dharmic and Islamic.

Like a Muslim, I accept the existence of 1 god only but like a Hindu I accept that god has infinite forms, attributes and names. This is the only logical concept to accept the existence of 1 god.

I denounce idolatry like a Muslim.

Have you looked at the Kabir Panth.

Kabir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is both Muslim and Hindu. I love the story of Kabirs death. The Muslims and the Hindu disciples were fighting over his funeral. The Hindu's wanted to bury him in Hindu fashion. The Muslims wanted to give him an Islamic funeral. When both groups went to get the body under the sheet they found only flowers.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

what importance do you give to satsang ?

I have found satsang to be very important in my life. Holy Company has been very helpful in my life. When I first started walking the Hindu path I would visit a Swami from the Ramakrishna order every Monday. Then I would go to classes every other weekend. It helped me to walk the walk. In the summer all meetings stop for the most part. During those times of much less temple activity. I found it to be harder to stay consistent with my Sadhana.

We also learn from example. I like the Jewish saying I don't go to the Rabbi to learn scripture but how to tie my shoes. I also find it helpful just to be around other people who have made the same life style chooses as I have.

 

[Treks]

Sangat for me has two elements - the first is company of God/Guru, the second is company of spiritual people. Both are very important, but I've found the language/cultural barrier combined with my shyness and social ineptitude has me pretty lonely for sangat in the real world. Although I attend Gurdwara Sahib regularly and I'm in the company of fellow Sikhs, rarely do we engage in spiritual discussions. We do seva together - that's something though. I've attended the Gurbani classes but they are 80% Punjabi and 20% English and the reading material is all in Punjabi.

So I find most of my "sangat" is with cyber sangat.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Have you look at the Kabir Panth.

Kabir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is both Muslim and Hindu. I love the story of Kabirs death. The Muslims and the Hindu disciples were fighting over his funeral. The Hindu's wanted to bury him in Hindu fashion. The Muslims wanted to give him an Islamic funeral. When both groups went to get the body under the sheet they found only flowers.

Kabir, it means great. I am very well familiar with this man and this story is the primary reason for me choosing the path I am on. Also I cannot forget the story of Sai Baba of Shirdi.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram vinayaka ji

That was kind of my point. At my temple we don't do the aarti song, and I've had people come who basically say what I said in the other post. In other words, they become intolerant in my temple, because they have a preconceived notion of what a temple should be. And trust me, the opposite has happened as well.

prehaps through satsang people may learn to be a little more tollerant ?

of couse at times people have preconceived ideas , but through satsang they have the chance to come together without strictly adhering to any ritual of any particular sect .

people only missunderstand each other because they know little about each others way to worship god , the more we know about each others practices we not only become tollerant but we may also become appreciative of each others way :namaste

Hindus of different sects are sometimes so very different that there really is no common ground even for satsang. Imagine putting 2 Muslims, 2 Catholics, 2 Southern Baptists, 2 Jews, in the same room and say. "Now we're going to have a mutual understanding sing-song, and all feel better for it. In the end, it all sounds good, but it might be unrealistic.

yes it sounds good , and who knows maybe you will be plesantly surprised , after all there is one common ground , ...faith in god . it is not nececary to argue about how any individual sees their god or chooses to worship , maybe satsang is a good way to find out more about each others beleifs without the need to be involved in the ritual side of worship .
in dharmic traditions there are two levels of satsang firstly to be in the company of god and secondly in the company of other spitual aspirants , simmilarly christians have fellowship , I am sure there are many similarities .

it is not just about having a sing song , and it might not work for everyone but if it works for some , then as you say "it is all good"

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram wannabe ji ,:namaste

I have found satsang to be very important in my life. Holy Company has been very helpful in my life. When I first started walking the Hindu path I would visit a Swami from the Ramakrishna order every Monday. Then I would go to classes every other weekend. It helped me to walk the walk. In the summer all meetings stop for the most part. During those times of much less temple activity. I found it to be harder to stay consistent with my Sadhana.

what you say reminds me so much of my first years at the temple , just being around other people who's focus in life was not on the material plain was such a releif from the constant onslaught of maya ,

We also learn from example. I like the Jewish saying I don't go to the Rabbi to learn scripture but how to tie my shoes. I also find it helpful just to be around other people who have made the same life style chooses as I have.

"We also learn from example" .....deffinately , not only is there the example to be inspired by but allso the support to take the next step , to me temple sangha was ilke a big family where we were all there to support each other or simply to enjoy each others company in the service of god .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram treks ji ,

welcome :namaste

Sangat for me has two elements - the first is company of God/Guru, the second is company of spiritual people. Both are very important, but I've found the language/cultural barrier combined with my shyness and social ineptitude has me pretty lonely for sangat in the real world. Although I attend Gurdwara Sahib regularly and I'm in the company of fellow Sikhs, rarely do we engage in spiritual discussions. We do seva together - that's something though.

for years I also struggled with the language and had to go back and translate so much at a later date , but in the end I found that to my benifit as I wasnt just listening and letting it wash over me , I was sitting and contemplating everything very deeply .

in the early days I didnt feel that there was enough "spiritual discussion"and I too feel that I lernt a lot simply by serving alongside others ,as especialy in the company of women I think there is a gentle humility which dosent want to make a show of being very learned , but by doing serva one is putting the teachings in to practice , there is nothing more beautifull than this :namaste

I've attended the Gurbani classes but they are 80% Punjabi and 20% English and the reading material is all in Punjabi.

are there transliteration and translations available in book form ?

I am so fortunate that there are so many translations of the vedic literature , but I have allways felt sad that I canot fully understand it in its original language ,

at first I thought that I was the only one who did not undersand , but I was amazed to find out that only a small portion of the congregation could fully follow the sanskrit , and that many of the lessons were spoken in a mixture of tongues with a small percentage of english , I came to understand much more by studying .

so I find most of my "sangat" is with cyber sangat.

I have only recently learned to use the internet and am ammazed at how much access there is to the most wonderfull things especialy translations

and pleased to join in the "cyber sangat ":namaste

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

I am heterodox to both parties, Dharmic and Islamic.

since the dharmic umbrella is so wide I do not think that I would be happy to say that there was an orthodox veiw , comming from a buddhist background to vaisnavism I am seeing two aspects of the dharmic spectrum .

Like a Muslim, I accept the existence of 1 god only but like a Hindu I accept that god has infinite forms, attributes and names. This is the only logical concept to accept the existence of 1 god.

as a buddist I would say that there is one 'ultimate reality' , some buddhists accept that ultimate reality to be god , others veiw it quite differently without giving 'ultimate reality' god like characteristics . I am of the mind that by realising the ultimate reality one realises god .
as a vaisnava my veiw is one god who as you say has infinate forms , and from both veiw points particularly the buddhist one realises that we need to see each atribute sepperately , seeing god in his fullness would be more than we could comprehend .

I denounce idolatry like a Muslim.

I would also denounce idolatry although deity worship is a large part of our serva personaly I do not veiw out deity forms as idols but as manifestations of god .

I do not approve of the worship or veneration of humans whether they are saints or prophets just like a Muslim.

when I was younger I also had a little difficulty accepting this , but the longer I have practiced the more my sence of indebtedness to saints or prophets , but again both in buddhism and vaisnavism there are many times when prominant teachers have been regarded as divine incarnations or embodiments of the truth , there fore I think I would have to say that not all but some deffinately are worthy of veneration .

Like a Hindu I believe in moksha and spiritual enlightenment or awareness.

I believe in the cycle of samsara which at the end it always leads to god.

:bow:

I perform dhyana and meditate on the lord.

:bow:

I read the Quran and Shiva Purana as well.

I read many texts and find great similarity in the wisdom that they contain ,
Ive not extensively read the Quran or the Shiva Puranas , but that simpy illustrates how broad the dharmic spectrum is , I realy feel a great empathy with the sufis veiw of god to me it breaks the nececity for boundarys or strict confines of beleif , in which case there is no need to identify as ortodox or hetrodox , one simply loses one self in realisation of god .

That is some basics in a nutshell essentially.

sounds good to me , ...welcome to our satsang :camp:

 

[nameless]

from vivekachudamani

Through the company(satsang) of the good/guru, there arises non-attachment;
Through non-attachment, there arises freedom from delusion;
Through freedom from delusion, one realizes the Immutable Reality;
Experiencing the Immutable Reality, one attains liberation-in-life -~ Shankaracharya

 

[Aum_425]

Satsang is vastly impotant! When we engage and cultivate our satsang we give our love a chance to grow. The only way our love can grow is by giving it away!

"Uniting in satsang, your inspiration will increase. The root of all spiritual evolution is satsang, which means cultivating spirituality from a good example, and then becoming a good example yourself. As much as you polish your brass pots and your copper vessels, so much will they shine."

-Shree Maa

 

[Vinayaka]

really depends on the individual sect ... some sects/groups put a lot of emphasis on it, while others don't ... it's also an individual thing as to it's importance, as there are social people and non-social people. I;kll use the temple as an example ... some should like top go alone on a down time, others go for the crowd.

 

[Aum_425]

Indeed. Plus, there are definitely times, for all, when it is more auspicious to take to isolation and have internal satsang!

 

[Vinayaka]

In traditional (read Indian if you wish) there is actually little formal satsang. You get together randomly at the temple, and are in the midst of other devotees, but there is no organisational structure to it.

But satsang has two meanings. One is like a formal worship meeting ... to have a satsang. The other is just the general ... people meeting people, or 'in the company of'