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The Inexplicable Success of Capitalist Indoctrination

Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
How have you reached the conclusion for what constitutes a fair share as far as paying taxes goes? That's pretty much the source of disagreement here. We will have different standards.
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I would say fair means equal percentage. I think that the no one should pay income taxes if you make below a certain amount like $50k/year. That amount can be discussed. Then everyone pays the same percentage above the $50k lets say 10% (negotiable) with allowances for tax breaks for different things. I would also say that at some level say $1M you don't get any tax breaks at all you pay 10% of money earned. In the US in 2019 the overall effective tax rate was 8.6%.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
Yerda said:
Some will never need convincing. A fair chunk of society will always accept the propaganda coming from the most powerful people - that is just how some people are.

The rest of us are too distracted, politically splintered or just indifferent.
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And exhausted. Capitalism is exhausting. It pits everyone against everyone else for everything, all the time. Like living in a war zone for your entire life.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
I would say fair means equal percentage. I think that the no one should pay income taxes if you make below a certain amount like $50k/year. That amount can be discussed. Then everyone pays the same percentage above the $50k lets say 10% (negotiable) with allowances for tax breaks for different things. I would also say that at some level say $1M you don't get any tax breaks at all you pay 10% of money earned. In the US in 2019 the overall effective tax rate was 8.6%.
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Sure, but how did you reach the conclusion any of this constitutes fair taxes? Where does fairness enter the picture and how?
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Firenze said:
My claim is backed up by those in the top 10% who constantly brag about the fact that they pay no taxes. Remember Trump bragging in a national debate that only stupid people pay taxes?
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So no good evidence then. You believe what Trump says?

And when Trump said that in the debate with Hillary that is when I started to be swayed by him. He told the truth unlike Hillary, He exposed Hillary and her donors that they don't want to change the tax code because they benefit the most from it. He was a politician telling the truth.


Also notice that he said he paid taxes but he took the allowed deductions and write-offs. You would be dumb not to if you could.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
PureX said:
Then why are school teachers, secretaries, cops and everyone else working hard every day to keep society running paying a greater percentage of their income in taxes than billionaires like Warren Buffet? How do you imaging this to be fair? Especially when the school teacher's total income is a matter of econmic survival, and Warren Buffet's income is many, many thousands of times beyond the level needed for him to survive in this culture, Your idea of fairness is mind-boggling to me.
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Where is your evidence for this claim?
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
Because they made it, now are you going to answer my question?

Why do you think you are entitled to the rich's money?
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They didn't make it. At best they set up the conditions for other people to generate wealth for them. The workers made it. At worst they extracted it through rents. Most likely, though, they simply inherited it. None of them earned it.

I don't feel entitled to it. I'm not looking to redirect their wealth to me. I want those who have been able to partake of a massive share of my societies wealth to repay the society that made it possible. I also want to limit the power of individuals and corporations to tilt political decisions in their favour, create an economy that works for everyone, and restore a balance and justice to the society I live in.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen said:
The less they pay in taxes, the more you and I have to, obviously.
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First, That is not how it works. Our income taxes in the US are not dependant on how much the government spends.

Second, then this is your greed not theirs. You think it is ok to take from someone that has more so you can pay less.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Yerda said:
They didn't make it. At best they set up the conditions for other people to generate wealth for them. The workers made it. At worst they extracted it through rents. Most likely, though, they simply inherited it. None of them earned it.
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This is simply not true and just sour grapes. The workers got paid, the people who made the money took the risk and did the work to earn set up those conditions. Do you know how much work it takes to start a business and how much risk people take to get rich? A lot. Rich people create jobs and wealth for others, government cannot do that.
Yerda said:
I don't feel entitled to it. I'm not looking to redirect their wealth to me. I want those who have been able to partake of a massive share of my societies wealth to repay the society that made it possible.
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They have paid it back in taxes.
Yerda said:
I also want to limit the power of individuals and corporations to tilt political decisions in their favour
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We can do that without confiscating people wealth.
Yerda said:
, create an economy that works for everyone,
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Anyone can become rich in the US. There are tons of examples. It will not work for everyone if you take away the ability for people to become wealthy who want to.
Yerda said:
and restore a balance and justice to the society I live in.
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What is unjust? Working to become wealthy? Employing others? What?
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
Where is your evidence for this claim?
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Warren Buffet has said it himself on many occasions.

From Politifact:

Buffett vs. his secretary
We fact-checked Warren Buffett's statements about taxes in the New York Times. Buffett said that his taxes amounted to "only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent." Individual tax filings are private, so there was no way we could compare Buffett's actual tax return with that of his secretary and other co-workers. (We contacted his office when we did the fact-check and didn't hear back.) So instead, we checked Buffett's statement that the "mega-rich" pay about 15 percent in taxes, while the middle class "fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot." We rated the statement True.


Warren Buffett Defends Paying the Least Among America's Richest

5 Ways That Billionaire Warren Buffett Pays a Lower Tax Rate Than His Secretary | Entrepreneur
 
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Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
I will answer your question if you answer mine first (since I asked it first): How did you reach the conclusion of what constitutes a significant ammount?
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1% pays 40% of the taxes is significant.

One definition of significant is: of a noticeably or measurably large amount
In my opinion this meets the definition.
 
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