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The insults don't serve you well

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I read the OP as alerting posters to the fact that when I see insults,
most of the time, it makes the insulter look worse than the insultee.
(It's all about me, you know. Or should I say "aboot" since y'all are Canuckistanian.)
Everyone already has opinions about others, so an insult says nothing new aboot
the recipient. But if the insult is wrongful, erroneous, artless or petulant, then it
reflects poorly on the one who wields it....ya cape wear'n, flea bitten, super sissy!

Don't worry, honey. Just let me tap you with my pink magic wand and your kilt will turn into a skirt and sporran into a fetching purse and you can join me on the fashion runway.

Beyond that, I agree that the insulter says much about himself. That's why I know that inside of @Revoltingest's curmudgeonly snark like exterior beats a heart of a pure snarky curmudgeon with a van fetish.

Now if someone comes up with a high quality, literary insult, it's worth something at least. Such as this one which I particularly like:

Lady Astor to Churchill "Winston, if you were my husband I would flavour your coffee with poison"
Churchill: "Madam, if I were your husband, I should drink it"
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Don't worry, honey. Just let me tap you with my pink magic wand and your kilt will turn into a skirt and sporran into a fetching purse and you can join me on the fashion runway.

Beyond that, I agree that the insulter says much about himself. That's why I know that inside of @Revoltingest's curmudgeonly snark like exterior beats a heart of a pure snarky curmudgeon with a van fetish.
I resent that, Rover!
I'm not "pure".
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Where you are going off the track in your assessment that what I said is wrong is in your assumption of the speaker's intent. You are assuming that given the audience's responsibility for understanding that the speaker is not being impeccable with his/her word.

Nope. I still think it's entirely possible I've misunderstood your intent, but my meaning has nothing to do with the speaker being impeccable with his/her word or not. Audience members simply bring different context to the table, and the same message will not deliver the same outcome in terms of understanding.

I, too, am a teacher. I speak clearly and concisely. My words are planned before they are delivered. I am impeccable with my word. If I leave something open to interpretation, it is purely intentional and planned.

Just for full disclosure, I'm an ex-teacher. Primary teacher, with a little bit of lecturing. I no longer work in teaching, I'm a business consultant in the ERP industry.

Sincerely, I mean no offence, but if you think your words never leave anything open to interpretation, you are either only speaking about very specific and technical items, or you're kidding yourself.

My teaching style may be different than yours. I do not spoon-feed my audience. I speak in a fashion that requires the audience to think and give feedback.

I've been accused of a lot of things, but spoon-feeding my audience is certainly not one of them. Regardless, you appear to be suggesting that you deliberately leave things open to interpretation as a way of encouraging your audience to more fully immerse themselves in the topic at hand, and actually think about it. In a generic sense I commend this. However, I cannot see communication in terms of a strict transactional process.
I taught in Papua New Guinea using a Queensland curriculum, and asking the children to list their cousins (as a very simple example) elicited a vastly different response to what I expected, even though the children I was teaching had English as their first language, and had at least 1 Australian parent.

On occasion, I will add a bit of shock value to my words, which in my experience, helps the audience better retain the information.

Makes sense. I used to occasionally make incorrect connections on purpose, to encourage active listening.

That said, the audience is responsible for understanding the information provided. If something is left to interpretation, it is on the audience to think and give feedback as mentioned above.

I still think there is an inherent assumption here that lacks utility. The audience may believe that they HAVE understood the information. Small and dicky as the example was, my audience in PNG was quite convinced they knew what I meant. I didn't account for their background in framing the instruction (due to ignorance) and they weren't able to effectively clarify (due to ignorance). We both believed the instruction made sense, but it made 'different' sense to each side of the 'transaction'.

If someone is unclear about the information provided, it's on them to ask for clarification. It is their choice to give feedback or remain silent. The responsibility for the understanding of the information provided is theirs. I've done my job in the delivery and my response to any feedback or requests for clarification.

Have you studied communication models by country? It's an interesting concept, and highlights cultural differences in approach. You can believe in them or not, of course, but on a basic level there are very clear differences in structure when communicating across cultures and countries. Having a single communication approach not accounting for audience is a good way to ensure miscommunication.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
You are not required to care, just be aware.
I do agree, that more and more, people are seeing their internet fingerprints used against them in a variety of ways. I would strongly agree that young people, in particular, should be wary about what they post on the Net. People really should disengage from FacePalm and Twit'errrrrr as employers do check out profiles on those and other platforms. Likewise for law enforcement.

For us retired badgers, as long as we stay within the boundaries of the laws in our home countries, we should be perfectly fine.

Is that aware enough for you?
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
By artison, I'm guessing you are making an analogy for the speaker.

The speaker is solely responsible for what is said, not what is understood. Reaction is exclusively on the audience.

Preemptively, if room is left for interpretation, it's on the audience to ask for clarification. Their choice to do so or not falls on them.
And rhetoric takes another blow.

A comedian or speech-writer may well disagree with your statements. If reaction is solely on the audience, there is no reason for them to get paid.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Excuse for what? I am downright polite on RF compared to what I usually say. And that's to the people I love the most, never mind strangers.

But it's not the person's fault if someone outside of the conversation reacts badly to a mere word. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder and something innocuous in one culture is akin to blasphemy to another. Again, not the person's fault necessarily.
If people actually believe that they can be blameless for the reactions they produce, that does go a ways towards explaining things.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
If people actually believe that they can be blameless for the reactions they produce, that does go a ways towards explaining things.
I'm inclined to agree. I often craft my words in ways that they can have multiple meanings. Part of that is to gauge the reaction of the reader and sometimes produces unexpected results, though that is rare. Likewise, my unabashed humor could, in theory, make some people uncomfortable, but I generally have a keep eye on the people I am making laugh and can tell how far to go. I don't think I have ever thought, while on a humorous binge, "Oy, you've gone too far now... Oooops."
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
If people actually believe that they can be blameless for the reactions they produce, that does go a ways towards explaining things.
Well this is the internet. And with anonymity does come a sense of unusual brashness. Because well, who's to know what you actually said IRL if it's online?
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Straw man.

Please point out where I stated, or even implied, the speaker or author doesn't take the audience into account. You are intentionally misrepresenting my argument to support your statement.
It wasn't a straw man so much as rhetoric, specifically passive agressiveness. And it produced an intended effect in you--albeit some people employ rhetoric unconsciously and unwittingly, but then the fact that their words engendered an emotional response should be the first clue that raises awareness of what they've done.

Rhetoric can be a skill in the hands of the gentleman debater.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well this is the internet. And with anonymity does come a sense of unusual brashness. Because well, who's to know what you actually said IRL if it's online?
And that is why many employers and law enforcement types are now asking for Facebook and Twitter information so they can assess a person more completely from a given interview. That can have very real effects and not very nice ones at that.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
And that is why many employers and law enforcement types are now asking for Facebook and Twitter information so they can assess a person more completely from a given interview. That can have very real effects and not very nice ones at that.
Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that. What a person does or says or believes outside of working hours is none of the employer's business, imo. Unless they break the law. Even my manager says as much.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Which is fine in and of itself. A debate isn't a formal logical proof. A bit of emotion for effect is fine.


I'll give an example of what I'm talking about: in debates about Intelligent Design, the ID proponent often makes the argument that ID is a reasonable position that's worthy of respect. If you respond to this in a way that treats the ID proponent's position reasonably and respectfully, then you've conceded his point.
In a respectful debate, it should be a point shared by both.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I read the OP as alerting posters to the fact that when I see insults,
most of the time, it makes the insulter look worse than the insultee.
(It's all about me, you know. Or should I say "aboot" since y'all are Canuckistanian.)
Everyone already has opinions about others, so an insult says nothing new aboot
the recipient. But if the insult is wrongful, erroneous, artless or petulant, then it
reflects poorly on the one who wields it....ya cape wear'n, flea bitten, super sissy!
Yes...
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
So far, so good.



Where you are going off the track in your assessment that what I said is wrong is in your assumption of the speaker's intent. You are assuming that given the audience's responsibility for understanding that the speaker is not being impeccable with his/her word.

I, too, am a teacher. I speak clearly and concisely. My words are planned before they are delivered. I am impeccable with my word. If I leave something open to interpretation, it is purely intentional and planned. My teaching style may be different than yours. I do not spoon-feed my audience. I speak in a fashion that requires the audience to think and give feedback. On occasion, I will add a bit of shock value to my words, which in my experience, helps the audience better retain the information.

That said, the audience is responsible for understanding the information provided. If something is left to interpretation, it is on the audience to think and give feedback as mentioned above. If someone is unclear about the information provided, it's on them to ask for clarification. It is their choice to give feedback or remain silent. The responsibility for the understanding of the information provided is theirs. I've done my job in the delivery and my response to any feedback or requests for clarification.
This is getting off-topic, though. Yes, the student bears responsibility for learning a subject matter, but the topic was the emotional response that an insult is designed to produce.

Well this is the internet. And with anonymity does come a sense of unusual brashness. Because well, who's to know what you actually said IRL if it's online?
The only one to whom it really should matter is to know.
 
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