The logical fallacy of atheism

[Bunyip]

And yet, you can and do use the term in sentences without specifying, and magically get understood.

Well no, and that is the problem. My sentence would not be understood at all, it would be meaningless.

I'm not sure why you are struggling so much with the fact that unless you define a term it is meaningless.

 

[s2a]

I think they do have something in common--that's why you can say things like, "I can imagine multiple concepts of god," and fully expect your sentence to be understood without having to specify "concept of god."

Or perhaps, all concepts of a "god"(s) is utterly meaningless absent any definition or description of whatever "he" or "they" may be.

IF "god" defies ALL explanation or definition, then "he" is little better that a bowl of Count-Chocula. Maybe tasty to some...but hardly interesting beyond breakfast.

 

[Bunyip]

Or perhaps, all concepts of a "god"(s) is utterly meaningless absent any definition or description of whatever "he" or "they" may be.

IF "god" defies ALL explanation or definition, then "he" is little better that a bowl of Count-Chocula. Maybe tasty to some...but hardly interesting beyond breakfast.

Exactly. And if god defies explanation or definition, then it is a meaningless term.

 

[Willamena]

And what exactly do YOU mean by that concept? How would YOU define the co cept of god?

A concept is the mental image that you hold to fill in what 'god' (the term) means. The image is necessarily private. It doesn't matter that it matches anyone else's--it never will exactly because you've constructed your vocabulary all by yourself, from your first word--but it is close enough that you use the word intelligibly.

 

[serp777]

I think they do have something in common--that's why you can say things like, "I can imagine multiple concepts of god," and fully expect your sentence to be understood without having to specify "concept of god."

What they have in common, what you've given them, is the concept "concept of god."

So God is a concept, which is God, which is a concept, which is God, which is a concept....

Why does everything taste like copper?

 

[Willamena]

So God is a concept, which is God, which is a concept, which is God, which is a concept...

No. No silly circularity necessary. You made the concept "concept of god," when you talked about imagining concepts of god. That's how you phrased it. If you had talked about imagining multiple versions of god, then we'd be talking just the "concept of god."

 

[Bunyip]

A concept is the mental image that you hold to fill in what 'god' (the term) means. The image is necessarily private. It doesn't matter that it matches anyone else's--it never will exactly because you've constructed your vocabulary all by yourself, from your first word--but it is close enough that you use the word intelligibly.

Of course it matters that it does not match anyone elses - unless you explain what the term means to you other people will not know what you mean.

Unless you define terms, they have no meaning - this is just basic co mon sense.

What do YOU mean by God? What does that term mean to you?

 

[Willamena]

Of course it matters that it does not match anyone elses - unless you explain what the term means to you other people will not know what you mean.

Unless you define terms, they have no meaning - this is just basic co mon sense.

What do YOU mean by God? What does that term mean to you?

Rather, we must 'come to terms' for them to have shared meaning.

I'm not going to answer what god means to me because it won't mean much to you if you haven't defined it, and I don't think it's relevant to the discussion. Seeing how you use the term 'god' well in discussion, though, at least you have the concept.

 

[serp777]

No. No silly circularity necessary. You made the concept "concept of god," when you talked about imagining concepts of god. That's how you phrased it. If you had talked about imagining multiple versions of god, then we'd be talking just the "concept of god."

How could I suggest there was a concept of a God when I stated there were multiple concepts for God?

 

[Willamena]

How could I suggest there was a concept of a God when I stated there were multiple concepts for God?

There's a concept for every term you use.

 

[serp777]

There's a concept for every term you use.

I can talk about something I don't have a concept of; like God for example.

Or higher dimensions. Or what is at the center of a singularity.

 

[Bunyip]

Rather, we must 'come to terms' for them to have shared meaning.

I'm not going to answer what god means to me because it won't mean much to you if you haven't defined it, and I don't think it's relevant to the discussion. Seeing how you use the term 'god' well in discussion, though, at least you have the concept.

So you wont define the term, because it won't mean anything if I haven't defined it?

Sooooo.....if I haven't defined it, it has no meaning - that being my point all along.

 

[Willamena]

I can talk about something I don't have a concept of; like God for example.

Or higher dimensions. Or what is at the center of a singularity.

Yes, you can, but if you use the word as a term, you have made a concept.

 

[serp777]

Yes, you can, but if you use the word as a term, you have made a concept.

Or a reference to an undefined entity.

I have made a concept of unknown i suppose.

God consists of the concept of unknown to me.

 

[Willamena]

So you wont define the term, because it won't mean anything if I haven't defined it?

Sooooo.....if I haven't defined it, it has no meaning - that being my point all along.

We can come to terms in predictably lengthy discussion, but that doesn't impact that we use the term 'god' meaningfully in our discussion without yet having come to terms.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes, you can, but if you use the word as a term, you have made a concept.

Yes, and unless you define it the concept can not be communicated and is thus essentially meaningless.

 

[Bunyip]

We can come to terms in predictably lengthy discussion, but that doesn't impact that we use the term 'god' meaningfully in our discussion without yet having come to terms.

Of course it has impact - unless the terms are defined and the meaning of the terms understood by both parties no meaningful discussion can take place.

 

[serp777]

Yes, you can, but if you use the word as a term, you have made a concept.

So you're saying I can't talk about ___ then since it's a term I don't have a concept of?

 

[Willamena]

So you're saying I can't talk about ___ then since it's a term I don't have a concept of?

Ah... no? Is this a trick question?

 

[Willamena]

Yes, and unless you define it the concept can not be communicated and is thus essentially meaningless.

The word and the term are different uses. I can use the term without defining the word, because the term refers only to the concept and the word refers to the thing.