The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

[Redemptionsong]

God's 10 commandments is how LOVE is expressed.

The Ten Commandments are LAW. [The fourth commandment is part of that written law, 'engraved in stones'.]

To transgress the law is sin.

Romans 4:13-16.'For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,'

Where no law is, there is no transgression. [No law, no sin]

Sin is not imputed when there is no law. [As above]

The law is not of faith. [Faith and law are different]

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [Why should one return to law having found faith?]

The just shall live by faith. [If you want to be saved, then live by faith. This does not involve a return to the law]

As Paul says, 'Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.'

 

[Redemptionsong]

You are putting the writings of some unknown author of Acts on the same plain as the Word of God. As for Acts 15:25, Paul, Judas/Barnabas, and Silas were simply sent with the message to "abstain from fornication, from things contaminated by idols, and from what is strangled and from blood". Paul taught none of those things, and actually preached the opposite.

As for the true "church", it remains in the wings, and is simply waiting for Babylon to be thrown in the sea (Revelation 18:21). That will be after two days (2 millennium), on the 3rd day (Hosea 6:1-3). At that time, the wicked/lawless will be judged in the valley of judgment (Har-Megido), and the sun and the moon will grow dark and the stars loose their brightness (Joel 3:12-14).

So having attempted to strip Paul of all authority, you now start on Luke!

Luke was the author inspired to write both the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts.

Acts 1:1.'The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began to do and teach.' [Now, which former treatise might that be?]

Luke 1:3, 4.'It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.'

Keep destroying the threads and eventually you won't have a scripture to deny.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Ten Commandments are LAW. [The fourth commandment is part of that written law, 'engraved in stones'.]

To transgress the law is sin.

Romans 4:13-16.'For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,'

Where no law is, there is no transgression. [No law, no sin]

Sin is not imputed when there is no law. [As above]

The law is not of faith. [Faith and law are different]

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [Why should one return to law having found faith?]

The just shall live by faith. [If you want to be saved, then live by faith. This does not involve a return to the law]

As Paul says, 'Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.'

This is the point God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 Commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 and in times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to believe and follow His Word *ACTS 17:30-31. If after we receive a knowledge of the truth we continue in Sin transgressing any one of God's 10 commandments there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come because those doing to count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-39. The letter killeth indeed to those who brake it. The Spirit gives life indeed to those who obey it *ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 8:13; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31.

 

[Redemptionsong]

This is the point God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 Commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 and in times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to believe and follow His Word *ACTS 17:30-31. If after we receive a knowledge of the truth we continue in Sin transgressing any one of God's 10 commandments there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come because those doing to count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-39. The letter killeth indeed to those who brake it. The Spirit gives life indeed to those who obey it *ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 8:13; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31.

Thank you for keeping the post short and manageable!

Acts 17:30,31, as indeed Acts 14:16 tells us that ,'Who [God] in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.' God has 'winked' at our past transgressions, but now wants us to repent. Yes. I have repented, and I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ as my Saviour from sin and death. His response to me has been to baptise me with His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is now my guide into 'all truth', and this, I believe is not in opposition to God's word, but in the spirit that encapsulates the whole of God's word. What is the spirit upon which all the law hangs? To love God and love our neighbour.

So what you think, if I am correct, is that by not following a Friday/Saturday sabbath, I am not loving God or my neighbour. Yet, in my heart and conscience I know that this is not true. I love God and my neighbour, yet I do not keep a regular sabbath according to the law. Will I be judged for this? I don't believe so. When Jesus was criticised for not keeping the Sabbath, he stated that doing good always takes priority over following tradition or the letter of the law. In my opinion, placing yourself under the bondage of fear, and of the letter of the law, has the effect of quenching the spirit.

Romans 8:1-4 says, more eloquently that I can, that we must follow the Spirit. It says that the law could not make us free because it was 'weak through the flesh'. Now that Christ has 'condemned sin in the flesh' we have His righteousness in us, that 'the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

I was reading about the SDA church the other day, and discovered that very few SDA members believe in the demonstration of God's power that comes with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The fruits are accepted but there is very little SDA practice of the nine manifestations of power recorded in 1 Corinthians 12. Do you see these powers, which were clearly intended for the good of the church, manifested in your church?

 

[2ndpillar]

So having attempted to strip Paul of all authority, you now start on Luke!

Luke was the author inspired to write both the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts.

Acts 1:1.'The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began to do and teach.' [Now, which former treatise might that be?]

Luke 1:3, 4.'It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.'

Keep destroying the threads and eventually you won't have a scripture to deny.

Well, another King James bible enthusiast. The KJB is the only bible I am aware that claims this assumed part time historian, Luke, has a "perfect understanding". The general consensus was that this assumed associate of Paul, according to Luke 1:3, "investigated everything". Of course his "eyewitness" reporting, if indeed he wrote Acts, was not consistent. Two different accounts of Paul in the wilderness were in conflict. As for Luke writing "all that Jesus began to do and teach", I kind of think Luke was not a first party witness, as he indicated he was compiling events, nor did he include much of what Yeshua taught or said. As for Luke being "Scripture", I kind of doubt that except in the eyes of those caught in the wilderness. As for what "Scripture" is, that would be the law and the prophets, and not some writings of part time historians who push the agenda that the law was nailed to the cross, the symbol which Sol Invictus gave Constantine to conquer the world under, the pagan symbol given to Constantine in 310 AD at the battle of Milvian Bridge.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Well, another King James bible enthusiast. The KJB is the only bible I am aware that claims this assumed part time historian, Luke, has a "perfect understanding". The general consensus was that this assumed associate of Paul, according to Luke 1:3, "investigated everything". Of course his "eyewitness" reporting, if indeed he wrote Acts, was not consistent. Two different accounts of Paul in the wilderness were in conflict. As for Luke writing "all that Jesus began to do and teach", I kind of think Luke was not a first party witness, as he indicated he was compiling events, nor did he include much of what Yeshua taught or said. As for Luke being "Scripture", I kind of doubt that except in the eyes of those caught in the wilderness. As for what "Scripture" is, that would be the law and the prophets, and not some writings of part time historians who push the agenda that the law was nailed to the cross, the symbol which Sol Invictus gave Constantine to conquer the world under, the pagan symbol given to Constantine in 310 AD at the battle of Milvian Bridge.

You might not believe the New Testament, but it also strikes me as odd that you do not accept the Ketuvim, or Writings, as a part of the Tanakh. Most Jews recognise all three divisions of the Tanakh as scripture.

What also seems odd to me is that you refer to Yeshua, but you reject one of the two books of the New Testament that provide important evidence, the genealogy, for Jesus being the rightful Messiah.

What exactly do you believe about Yeshua?

 

[2ndpillar]

You might not believe the New Testament, but it also strikes me as odd that you do not accept the Ketuvim, or Writings, as a part of the Tanakh. Most Jews recognise all three divisions of the Tanakh as scripture.

What also seems odd to me is that you refer to Yeshua, but you reject one of the two books of the New Testament that provide important evidence, the genealogy, for Jesus being the rightful Messiah.

What exactly do you believe about Yeshua?

Yeshua came to provide light to shine on the law and the prophets and to fulfill them. The world in turn has chosen the darkness of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Yeshua was to provide the "Way" to become sons of God, yet the world (the many) has chosen the path of lawlessness that leads to destruction (Mt 7:13-15).

As for your defined "Ketuvim", Yeshua quotes Psalms 82:6, and calls it "Scripture". (John 10:34-35) Apparently, he isn't concerned with the traditions of men.

 

[3rdAngel]

Thank you for keeping the post short and manageable!

Well to be honest I thought why bother. Forgive me for speaking plainly but I believe your not interested in God's Word and simply ignore what it says in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. The evidence of this is that you ignore God's Word when it is shared with you that shows why you are in error. God's Word is a blessing or a curse. It is a blessing to all those who hear and receive it or a curse to all those who reject it. I believe sin will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom when we have been given a knowledge of God's truth and reject it. *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27 and will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Acts 17:30,31, as indeed Acts 14:16 tells us that ,'Who [God] in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.' God has 'winked' at our past transgressions, but now wants us to repent.

Repentance is from sin which is defined in God's Law as the transgression of anyone of God's 10 commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11 not to continue in sin (breaking God's commandments). If we continue in sin when we have been given a knowledge of the truth, this is not repentance but rejection of God's Word at which I believe the scriptures teach, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Yes. I have repented, and I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ as my Saviour from sin and death. His response to me has been to baptise me with His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is now my guide into 'all truth', and this, I believe is not in opposition to God's word, but in the spirit that encapsulates the whole of God's word. What is the spirit upon which all the law hangs? To love God and love our neighbour

I believe the scriptures teach that no one has repented from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) if they knowingly continue to break any one of Gods 10 commandments. If anyone of us practice sin the scriptures teach we have neither seen him or know him and not telling the truth *1 JOHN 3:6; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. According to the scriptures I believe sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:10

So what you think, if I am correct, is that by not following a Friday/Saturday sabbath, I am not loving God or my neighbour. Yet, in my heart and conscience I know that this is not true. I love God and my neighbour, yet I do not keep a regular sabbath according to the law. Will I be judged for this? I don't believe so. When Jesus was criticised for not keeping the Sabbath, he stated that doing good always takes priority over following tradition or the letter of the law. In my opinion, placing yourself under the bondage of fear, and of the letter of the law, has the effect of quenching the spirit.

Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? *JEREMIAH 17:9. According to the scriptures I believe we will all be judged by the very Word of God that we believe and follow or reject *JOHN 12:47-48 and God's Law *PSALMS 9:8; PSALMS 119:172 for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-39. No one is under bondage to sin if they have sought God through repentance from sin (breaking God's LAW and unbelief in God's Word) and faith in His Word and have recieved God's forgiveness *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4. We are only under bondage if we continue in sin and have not received God's forgiveness through faith. I believe the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom that leads to love *PSALMS 111:10; ROMANS 13:8-10 at the foot of the cross of Christ. It is here that we find forgiveness by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. I believe we place ourselves under bondage by practicing sin when we have been given a knowledge of God's truth and reject God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36.

Romans 8:1-4 says, more eloquently that I can, that we must follow the Spirit. It says that the law could not make us free because it was 'weak through the flesh'. Now that Christ has 'condemned sin in the flesh' we have His righteousness in us, that 'the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

I believe ROMANS 8:1-4 is talking about freedom from sin not freedom from the law as verse 4 is saying that walking in the Spirit of God establishes the law...

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

same thoughts are continued in ROMANS 8:13...

ROMANS 8:13 [13], FOR IF YOU LIVE AFTER THE FLESH, YOU SHALL DIE: BUT IF YOU THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, YOU SHALL LIVE.

and again here...

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, WALK IN THE SPIRIT, AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUST OF THE FLESH.

and here wher Paul says faith in God's Word establishes the law...

ROMANS 3:31 [31],Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If we continue in sin we are in bondage and slaves to sin.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED; [32], AND YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, WHOEVER COMMITS SIN IS THE SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], IF THE SON THEREFORE SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

I believe the scriptures teach that bondage is sin not the law as the purpose of the law is simply to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God in the bondage of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

ROMANS 6:4-17
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14] FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], BUT GOD BE THANKED, THAT YOU WERE THE SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE WHICH WAS DELIVERED YOU.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

............

I believe according to the scriptures being made FREE in ROMANS 8:1-4 is from the BONDAGE OF SIN. Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If you continue in sin you will die *ROMANS 8:13. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39

I was reading about the SDA church the other day, and discovered that very few SDA members believe in the demonstration of God's power that comes with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The fruits are accepted but there is very little SDA practice of the nine manifestations of power recorded in 1 Corinthians 12. Do you see these powers, which were clearly intended for the good of the church, manifested in your church?

I believe according to the scriptures no one receives God's spirit by rejecting God's Word and practicing known unrepentant sin as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through God's Word as we believe and follow it not outside of it *JOHN 6:63. The conditions for receiving God's Spirit is turning away from sin (breaking God's Law) *ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 17:30. I believe no one receives Gods Spirit by not believing and following God's Word. God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

 

[Redemptionsong]

Yeshua came to provide light to shine on the law and the prophets and to fulfill them. The world in turn has chosen the darkness of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Yeshua was to provide the "Way" to become sons of God, yet the world (the many) has chosen the path of lawlessness that leads to destruction (Mt 7:13-15).

As for your defined "Ketuvim", Yeshua quotes Psalms 82:6, and calls it "Scripture". (John 10:34-35) Apparently, he isn't concerned with the traditions of men.

What, therefore, do you think marks a person out as being a 'son of God'?

Psalms are 'Ketuvim', and they are scripture, exactly my point.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Well to be honest I thought why bother. Forgive me for speaking plainly but I believe your not interested in God's Word and simply ignore what it says in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. The evidence of this is that you ignore God's Word when it is shared with you that shows why you are in error. God's Word is a blessing or a curse. It is a blessing to all those who hear and receive it or a curse to all those who reject it. I believe sin will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom when we have been given a knowledge of God's truth and reject it. *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27 and will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.



Repentance is from sin which is defined in God's Law as the transgression of anyone of God's 10 commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. If we continue in sin when we have been given a knowledge of the truth, this is not repentance but rejection of God's Word at which I believe the scriptures teach, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Yes. I have repented, and I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ as my Saviour from sin and death. His response to me has been to baptise me with His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is now my guide into 'all truth', and this, I believe is not in opposition to God's word, but in the spirit that encapsulates the whole of God's word. What is the spirit upon which all the law hangs? To love God and love our neighbour.

I believe the scriptures teach that no one has repented from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) if they knowingly continue to break any one of Gods 10 commandments. If anyone of us practice sin the scriptures teach we have neither seen him or know him and not telling the truth *1 JOHN 3:6; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. According to the scriptures I believe sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:10



Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29.
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? *JEREMIAH 17:9. According to the scriptures I believe will all be judged by the very Word of God that we believe and follow or reject *JOHN 12:47-48 and God's Law *PSALMS 9:8; PSALMS 119:172 for this who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-39. No one is under bondage if they have sought God through repentance from sin (breaking God's LAW and unbelief in God's Word) and faith in His Word and have recieved God's forgiveness *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4. We are only under bondage if we continue in sin and have not received God's forgiveness. I believe there fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom that leads to love *PSALMS 111:10; ROMANS 13:8-10 and leads us to the cross of Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. I believe you have placed yourself under bondage by practicing sin when you have been given a knowledge of God's truth and reject God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36.



I believe ROMANS 8:1-4 is talking about freedom from sin not freedom from the law as verse 4 is saying that walking in the Spirit of God establishes the law...

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

same thoughts are continued in ROMANS 8:13...

ROMANS 8:13 [13], For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

and again here...

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

and here wher Paul says faith in God's Word establishes the law...

ROMANS 3:31 [31],Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If we continue in sin we are in bondage and slaves to sin.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

I believe the scriptures teach that bondage is sin not the law as the purpose of the law is simply to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God in the bondage of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

ROMANS 6:4-17
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14] FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], BUT GOD BE THANKED, THAT YOU WERE THE SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE WHICH WAS DELIVERED YOU.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.



I believe according to the scriptures no one receives God's spirit by rejecting God's Word and practicing known unrepentant sin as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through God's Word as we believe and follow it not outside of it *JOHN 6:63. The conditions for receiving God's Spirit is turning away from sin (breaking God's Law) *ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 17:30. I believe no one receives Gods Spirit by not believing and following God's Word.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27

Consider these words, because they are yours and they express your belief.

'I BELIEVE NO ONE RECEIVES GODS SPIRIT BY NOT BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.'

If a person believes and follows God's Word BEFORE the Spirit is received then they are following the Word according to the law. Why? Because the Spirit has not yet been given. Such a person is righteous under the law. This person is DOING what is commanded under the law. They are not walking by grace, which only happens when you have received the Holy Spirit, God's free gift.

All along, I was convinced that you had things the wrong way around, and this confirms my belief. You believe that a person has to be DOING ALL THE LAW before they can receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus acted righteously and he received the Holy Spirit, and, therefore, you think that it should happen the same way for us!

The difference is that we are not righteous. We are sinners in need of a Saviour. When we repent, we turn away from our sinful ways, and we turn instead to Christ in faith, that we might receive His righteousness through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is Christ's Spirit in us that enables us to fulfil the law in love. This is why we cannot sin when we walk by His Spirit, because His Spirit is righteous!

All in all, it seems to me that you are trying to be righteous by your own efforts and by your own faith.

Have you ever noticed that faith is one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit? This is not our faith, but the faith of God. [1 Corinthians 12:9]

Is this why you remain silent about the SDA attitude to the powers of the Holy Spirit? Are these powers absent because your members are not walking by grace? It sounds very similar to the attitude held by Jehovah's Witnesses.

Romans 8:1,2.'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'

Scripture does not threaten us with condemnation if we walk after the Spirit in good conscience. A born-again believer is a 'new creation' in Christ, a son [or daughter] to the Father. It's a gospel of grace because we rely on the goodness of God in us, not on our own ability to be good.

 

[2ndpillar]

What, therefore, do you think marks a person out as being a 'son of God'?

Psalms are 'Ketuvim', and they are scripture, exactly my point.

A "son of God" does the will of God. The mark given by God to his people was to teach the 10 commandments and keep them. (Dt 6:8).

A mark of the beast is to keep the beast's commandments/decrees. The 7th head of the beast, Constantine, changed the law, and those keeping his law bear his mark, and he was instructed by Sol Invictus, at the battle of Milvian Bridge, in 310 AD, to conquer under the sign of the cross. The cross is the image given by the dragon to the beast, and the "many" worship the beast by worshipping the wooden cross, which can not speak or hear, and by following the false prophet Paul, and his false gospel of the cross/grace. Your gospel of the grace/cross, is the gospel of the false prophet, and leads the "many" to destruction. The "many" don't know their final destination, but in general, because they do not "come out of her (daughter of Babylon), they suffer her plagues (Rev 18:4).

 

[3rdAngel]

Consider these words, because they are yours and they express your belief.

'I BELIEVE NO ONE RECEIVES GODS SPIRIT BY NOT BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.'

If a person believes and follows God's Word BEFORE the Spirit is received then they are following the Word according to the law. Why? Because the Spirit has not yet been given. Such a person is righteous under the law. This person is DOING what is commanded under the law. They are not walking by grace, which only happens when you have received the Holy Spirit, God's free gift.

Nonsense. I believe the scriptures teach faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD *ROMANS 10:17. If faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God we cannot believe and follow God's Word when there is no Word.

Think it through brother. What comes first before we can receive Gods salvation and God's Spirit; 1. the Word of God, 2. faith in God's Word or 3. The Spirit of the Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 6:63? The answer is in ROMANS 10:17 we need to have faith in God's Word to receive God's Spirit and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

I believe your own post shows your in confusion if you believe that the Spirit comes before the Word of God. As posted earlier God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word *JOHN 6:63 and works through the Word of God as we believe it and gives us power to follow it *2 PETER 1:4; JOHN 3:16-21; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. As posted earlier I believe the scriptures teach no one receives God's Spirit without receiving God's Word and believing it. Believing God's Word allows God to work in us to give us life to follow it through his Spirit.

All along, I was convinced that you had things the wrong way around, and this confirms my belief. You believe that a person has to be DOING ALL THE LAW before they can receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus acted righteously and he received the Holy Spirit, and, therefore, you think that it should happen the same way for us!

As shown above through the scriptures already it is you that has things the wrong way around. If you have no Word you have not faith and if you have no faith you have no Spirit *ROMANS 14:15; JOHN 6:63.

The difference is that we are not righteous. We are sinners in need of a Saviour. When we repent, we turn away from our sinful ways, and we turn instead to Christ in faith, that we might receive His righteousness through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is Christ's Spirit in us that enables us to fulfil the law in love. This is why we cannot sin when we walk by His Spirit, because His Spirit is righteous!

How can you repent and have faith when there is no Word if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 14:15. I believe the scriptures teach no one has God's Spirit without first believing and following God's Word. God's Spirit works through the Word of God not outside of it *JOHN 6:63.

All in all, it seems to me that you are trying to be righteous by your own efforts and by your own faith.

Nonsense my dear friend. I believe you are confused. I believe according to the scriptures we are only saved only by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not by works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50 and if we sin willfully after we recieve a knowledge of the truth there remains no sacrifice for sin and a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Have you ever noticed that faith is one of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit? This is not our faith, but the faith of God. [1 Corinthians 12:9]

Indeed and it comes through the Word of God not outside of it *ROMANS 14:15

Is this why you remain silent about the SDA attitude to the powers of the Holy Spirit? Are these powers absent because your members are not walking by grace? It sounds very similar to the attitude held by Jehovah's Witnesses.

The evidence if someone knows God or not is in the fruit. JESUS says by their fruits you shall know them *MATTHEW 7:13-20. If someone is from God or not from God is made clear through the scriptures. What are their fruits? How can we know if someone is from God or not from God? 1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

Romans 8:1,2.'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'

I believe ROMANS 8:1-4 is talking about freedom from sin not freedom from the law as verse 4 is saying that walking in the Spirit of God establishes the law...

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

same thoughts are continued in ROMANS 8:13...

ROMANS 8:13 [13], For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

and again here...

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

and here wher Paul says faith in God's Word establishes the law...

ROMANS 3:31 [31],Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If we continue in sin we are in bondage and slaves to sin.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

I believe the scriptures teach that bondage is sin not the law as the purpose of the law is simply to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God in the bondage of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

ROMANS 6:4-17
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14] FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], BUT GOD BE THANKED, THAT YOU WERE THE SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE WHICH WAS DELIVERED YOU.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

............

I believe according to the scriptures being made FREE in ROMANS 8:1-4 is from the BONDAGE OF SIN. Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If you continue in sin you will die *ROMANS 8:13. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39

Scripture does not threaten us with condemnation if we walk after the Spirit in good conscience. A born-again believer is a 'new creation' in Christ, a son [or daughter] to the Father. It's a gospel of grace because we rely on the goodness of God in us, not on our own ability to be good.

God's Word is a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing to all those who believe and follow it and a curse of threatenings to all those who do not believe and do not follow *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

 

[Redemptionsong]

A "son of God" does the will of God. The mark given by God to his people was to teach the 10 commandments and keep them. (Dt 6:8).

A mark of the beast is to keep the beast's commandments/decrees. The 7th head of the beast, Constantine, changed the law, and those keeping his law bear his mark, and he was instructed by Sol Invictus, at the battle of Milvian Bridge, in 310 AD, to conquer under the sign of the cross. The cross is the image given by the dragon to the beast, and the "many" worship the beast by worshipping the wooden cross, which can not speak or hear, and by following the false prophet Paul, and his false gospel of the cross/grace. Your gospel of the grace/cross, is the gospel of the false prophet, and leads the "many" to destruction. The "many" don't know their final destination, but in general, because they do not "come out of her (daughter of Babylon), they suffer her plagues (Rev 18:4).

The Ten Commandments, and, indeed, the whole law, was a covenant made between God and Israel. Did the nation of Israel keep those commandments?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Nonsense. I believe the scriptures teach faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD *ROMANS 10:17. If faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God we cannot believe and follow God's Word when there is no Word.

Think it through brother. What comes first before we can receive Gods salvation and God's Spirit; 1. the Word of God, 2. faith in God's Word or 3. The Spirit of the Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 6:63? The answer is in ROMANS 10:17 we need to have faith in God's Word to receive God's Spirit and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

I believe your own post shows your in confusion if you believe that the Spirit comes before the Word of God. As posted earlier God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word *JOHN 6:63 and works through the Word of God as we believe it and gives us power to follow it *2 PETER 1:4; JOHN 3:16-21; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. As posted earlier I believe the scriptures teach no one receives God's Spirit without receiving God's Word and believing it. Believing God's Word allows God to work in us to give us life to follow it through his Spirit.



As shown above through the scriptures already it is you that has things the wrong way around. If you have no Word you have not faith and if you have no faith you have no Spirit *ROMANS 14:15; JOHN 6:63.



How can you repent and have faith when there is no Word if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 14:15. I believe the scriptures teach no one has God's Spirit without first believing and following God's Word. God's Spirit works through the Word of God not outside of it *JOHN 6:63.



Nonsense my dear friend. I believe you are confused. I believe according to the scriptures we are only saved only by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not by works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50 and if we sin willfully after we recieve a knowledge of the truth there remains no sacrifice for sin and a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-39.



Indeed and it comes through the Word of God not outside of it *ROMANS 14:15



The evidence if someone knows God or not is in the fruit. JESUS says by their fruits you shall know them *MATTHEW 7:13-20. If someone is from God or not from God is made clear through the scriptures. What are their fruits? How can we know if someone is from God or not from God? 1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.



I believe ROMANS 8:1-4 is talking about freedom from sin not freedom from the law as verse 4 is saying that walking in the Spirit of God establishes the law...

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

same thoughts are continued in ROMANS 8:13...

ROMANS 8:13 [13], For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

and again here...

GALATIANS 5:16 [16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

and here wher Paul says faith in God's Word establishes the law...

ROMANS 3:31 [31],Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If we continue in sin we are in bondage and slaves to sin.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

I believe the scriptures teach that bondage is sin not the law as the purpose of the law is simply to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God in the bondage of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

ROMANS 6:4-17
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
[5], For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], KNOWING THIS, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.
[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14] FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY, HIS SERVANTS YOU ARE TO WHOM YOU OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN TO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
[17], BUT GOD BE THANKED, THAT YOU WERE THE SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE WHICH WAS DELIVERED YOU.
[18], BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN, YOU BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

............

I believe according to the scriptures being made FREE in ROMANS 8:1-4 is from the BONDAGE OF SIN. Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin. If you continue in sin you will die *ROMANS 8:13. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39



God's Word is a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing to all those who believe and follow it and a curse of threatenings to all those who do not believe and do not follow *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

You have stated, all along, that a Christian, a born again believer, should follow all Ten Commandments, as written in Exodus 20. Is this not what you have argued? [Yes/No]

 

[2ndpillar]

The Ten Commandments, and indeed, the whole law, was a covenant made between God and Israel. Did the nation of Israel keep those commandments?

Apparently they did not, and the consequences have been ongoing (Hosea 5-6), but apparently the judgment will end with the destruction of "all the nations where I have scattered you (house of Israel) (Jeremiah 30:11), and "Israel" being "chastened justly". The "house of Israel" will eventually be gathered from the nations, and brought "into your own land", and "will be careful to observe all My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:22-27). But the "mark" of God per Dt 6:8 is with regard to Israel teaching the 10 commandments. Indeed, the state of Israel has the 7th day, the Sabbath as day of rest, whereas they stipulate the "day of the sun", Sunday, as the first day of work. The world in general, keeps the day of the sun as their day of rest, thereby giving homage to the beast, his false prophet, and the dragon (Sol Invictus/Apollo etc.).

 

[Redemptionsong]

Apparently they did not, and the consequences have been ongoing (Hosea 5-6), but apparently the judgment will end with the destruction of "all the nations where I have scattered you (house of Israel) (Jeremiah 30:11), and "Israel" being "chastened justly". The "house of Israel" will eventually be gathered from the nations, and brought "into your own land", and "will be careful to observe all My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:22-27). But the "mark" of God per Dt 6:8 is with regard to Israel teaching the 10 commandments. Indeed, the state of Israel has the 7th day, the Sabbath as day of rest, whereas they stipulate the "day of the sun", Sunday, as the first day of work. The world in general, keeps the day of the sun as their day of rest, thereby giving homage to the beast, his false prophet, and the dragon (Sol Invictus/Apollo etc.).

It's interesting that you should choose to quote Ezekiel 36. The sprinkling of clean water does not occur until Israel is 'gathered out of all countries' and brought into their own land. The scripture states, 'A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:'

Israel is, again, a nation in their own land. And since 1948 we have seen an increasing number of Jews accept Jesus Christ as Messiah. These Jews understand what it means to have 'a new heart' and 'a new spirit' because this is exactly what was promised by Jesus Christ to those who repent and believe. This is the new covenant that you have so forcefully been denying, and which was preached by both Peter and Paul!

 

[3rdAngel]

You have stated, all along, that a Christian, a born again believer, should follow all Ten Commandments, as written in Exodus 20. Is this not what you have argued? [Yes/No]

I believe you are confused here dear brother or perhaps you have a misunderstanding. According to the scriptures I believe that SIN is the transgression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. Without Christ all we can do is SIN because we love sin and we are sinners and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

This is what the law (10 commandments) teaches us *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; MATTHEW 9:12-13. The good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is that we have a Savior that gave His life for us to pay the penalty for our Sins that we can have the power to walk in newness of life *JOHN 3:16-21. The reason we need to be born again is to have newness of life *JOHN 3:3-7; ROMANS 6:1-23. This is God's new covenant promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36 to all those who call on the name of the Lord *ROMANS 10:13. It is the circumcision of the heart to love that is the operation of God, that fulfills God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 2:28-29; ROMANS 13:8-10; COLOSSIANS 2:12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10; JAMES 2:8-12. This is what it means to be "BORN AGAIN" as whosoever is BORN of God does not practice sin (breaking anyone of God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:6-9; JAMES 2:10-11 and is why JESUS says IF you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15.

According to the scriptures we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW what Gods Word says. Doing what God's Word says is the FRUIT of faith that works by a new heart that LOVES given in the new covenant promise of a new heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. This is God's work in us * PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate love and law as it is the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed. This is the same as how we express our faith by doing what God asks us to do.

The answer to your question is YES and NO! Why? The born again believer does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:9 because their heart has been circumcised to love and love fulfills Gods' LAW *ROMANS 2:28-29; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10; 1 JOHN 3:9. Obedience is not how they are saved it is simply the fruit of love because salvation has already been provided through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9; JOHN 14:15; JOHN 15:10-12; JOHN 14:21; MATTHEW 22:26-40. It has never been about following the law. It has always been about following Christ who fulfills the law in all those who believe and follow him through faith *JOHN 8:31-36 in the new covenant promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Ten Commandments, and, indeed, the whole law, was a covenant made between God and Israel. Did the nation of Israel keep those commandments?

I believe the scriptures teach that God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word

 

[2ndpillar]

It's interesting that you should choose to quote Ezekiel 36. The sprinkling of clean water does not occur until Israel is 'gathered out of all countries' and brought into their own land. The scripture states, 'A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:'

Israel is, again, a nation in their own land. And since 1948 we have seen an increasing number of Jews accept Jesus Christ as Messiah. These Jews understand what it means to have 'a new heart' and 'a new spirit' because this is exactly what was promised by Jesus Christ to those who repent and believe. This is the new covenant that you have so forcefully been denying, and which was preached by both Peter and Paul!

Ezekiel 36:22 refers to the "house of Israel", not the house of Judah/Judah/Jews. The "house of Judah" refers to the Jews, who have preceded the "house of Israel" out of the "nations". The "house of Israel" remains "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19). The house of Israel will be combined with "Judah" (Ezekiel 37) and have "David" "king over them" in the land "that I gave to Jacob" (Ez 37:24), and they "will keep My statutes and observe them". At that time the "nations"/Gentiles will be destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11), and the judgment against Judah and the house of Israel will be completed. Judah is now a fire brand among branches (Zechariah 12:6), but the "house of Israel remains scattered among the nations, and numbered as the sands of the sea, and their judgment is not finished until after 2 days, 2000 years plus after "I will go away and return to My place" (Hosea 5 & 6). Your New Testament, new covenant, based mostly on the writings of some unknown author of Hebrews, is built on the foundation of the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd", Peter (Zechariah 11). At the time of the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31, no one will have to teach their neighbor to "know the Lord" for they will all know the Lord. That is not the case with todays world And the "covenant which they broke", I will write on their heart. It does not say, that I will nail that covenant to the pagan symbol of the cross.

One repents of sin, which is transgression of the law. When one is deceived, they like Eve, believe the serpent/dragon, and have faith they will live forever, or as preached by Paul, be changed from corruptible to incorruptible. All they have to do is "believe" they have a "new heart" and a "new spirit", and believe as the demons, that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It didn't work for Eve, and it won't work for the "many".

 

[Redemptionsong]

I believe you are confused here dear brother or perhaps you have a misunderstanding. According to the scriptures I believe that SIN is the transgression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. Without Christ all we can do is SIN because we love sin and we are sinners and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

This is what the law (10 commandments) teaches us *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; MATTHEW 9:12-13. The good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is that we have a Savior that gave His life for us to pay the penalty for our Sins that we can have the power to walk in newness of life *JOHN 3:16-21. The reason we need to be born again is to have newness of life *JOHN 3:3-7; ROMANS 6:1-23. This is God's new covenant promise of a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36 to all those who call on the name of the Lord *ROMANS 10:13. It is the circumcision of the heart to love that is the operation of God, that fulfills God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 2:28-29; ROMANS 13:8-10; COLOSSIANS 2:12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MATTHEW 22:36-40; HEBREWS 8:10; JAMES 2:8-12. This is what it means to be "BORN AGAIN" as whosoever is BORN of God does not practice sin (breaking anyone of God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:6-9; JAMES 2:10-11 and is why JESUS says IF you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15.

According to the scriptures we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW what Gods Word says. Doing what God's Word says is the FRUIT of faith that works by a new heart that LOVES given in the new covenant promise of a new heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. This is God's work in us * PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate love and law as it is the fruit of OBEDIENCE to God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed. This is the same as how we express our faith by doing what God asks us to do.

The answer to your question is YES and NO! Why? The born again believer does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:9 because their heart has been circumcised to love and love fulfills Gods' LAW *ROMANS 2:28-29; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10; 1 JOHN 3:9. Obedience is not how they are saved it is simply the fruit of love because salvation has already been provided through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9; JOHN 14:15; JOHN 15:10-12; JOHN 14:21; MATTHEW 22:26-40. It has never been about following the law. It has always been about following Christ who fulfills the law in all those who believe and follow him through faith *JOHN 8:31-36 in the new covenant promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

Subtle differences seem to make all the difference!

Romans 10:4,5. 'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doth those things shall live in them.'

How can obedience to the law be the fruit of our faith in Christ, when Christ is the end of the law for righteousness? Our righteousness has become Christ Himself, not the old commandments! Our fruit is the fruit of His Holy Spirit. [Galatians 5:22-23]

There is only one new commandment, and this applies to those who walk by the Spirit.
John 13:34. 'A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.'