"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I was asking him that since his comment seemed to indicate it, but that would be highly unusual for a Christian. You response neither answered for him, or for yourself.

Nonsense. Which of the 613 commandments do you think can't be kept? People keep them all the time.

As for the laws regarding sacrifice in the Temple, Hosea pretty much taught us that when there is no temple, our prayers substitute for sacrifice. Have you ever wondered why Daniel prayed three times a day? It is because each of those prayers was one of the three daily sacrifices in the temple. Hosea 14:2 "so will we render as bullocks (sacrifices) the offering of our lips (prayers)."

I think you need to read what God said about the commandments, which is that they are easy to follow:
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

Do you keep the 613 laws? Do you eat foods that are not kosher?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you keep the 613 laws? Do you eat foods that are not kosher?

Yes, I follow all that apply to me. Yes, I only eat kosher. But then again, I'm an observant Jew, so that is what we do. It is very unusual for a Christian to claim to follow the 613, which is why I queried him to confirm that this is what he meant.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I follow all that apply to me. Yes, I only eat kosher. But then again, I'm an observant Jew, so that is what we do. It is very unusual for a Christian to claim to follow the 613, which is why I queried him to confirm that this is what he meant.

OK. You say you follow all that apply to you. I didn't realize you claim to be an observant Jew since if I remember correctly you indicated you believe much of the Bible is mythical. I won't say any more now about this now and have a good night.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, I follow all that apply to me. Yes, I only eat kosher. But then again, I'm an observant Jew, so that is what we do. It is very unusual for a Christian to claim to follow the 613, which is why I queried him to confirm that this is what he meant.

You do not follow the 613. You do not follow any of the temple laws, do animal sacrifices for sin offerings every time you sin, which make up the majority of these laws that are also connected to the annual Feast days now do you? Be honest.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure what your post was about. It certainly did not address anything in the quote of me that you used.

If the entire law of Moses was obeyed there would not be a need for sacrifices for sin.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK. You say you follow all that apply to you. I didn't realize you claim to be an observant Jew since if I remember correctly you indicated you believe much of the Bible is mythical. I won't say any more now about this now and have a good night.

Correct. My observance level is that of Conservative Judaism, but my theology is pretty liberal. So while I keep the Shabbat, eat kosher, observe the Holy Days, etc., I also accept scientific realities like evolution and the big bang. I think that textual criticism is one of many tools to help me better understand the sacred texts. Remember that Judaism is a religion of right action, not right belief. That's one of the great many things that distinguishes it from Christianity.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You do not follow the 613. You do not follow any of the temple laws, do animal sacrifices for sin offerings every time you sin, which make up the majority of these laws that are also connected to the annual Feast days now do you? Be honest.

Like I said, I follow all those laws that apply to me. Since there is no temple at this time, none of the sacrificial laws apply to me. It is actually UNlawful to make a sacrifice if there is no temple. Hosea 14:2 instructs "We shall render as bullocks (sacrifices) the words of our lips (prayers)." So yes, I obey the prophet, and say prayers in lieu of sacrifices.

You need to know that sin offerings were only ever offered for unintentional sins. If you sinned deliberately, you had to go the harder route and repent, beginning with making things right with the person you harmed. Consider that when David exclaimed "I have sinned," did Nathan say "Quick, lets go do a sacrifice!" ??? No. Nathan said his sin was forgiven, without any sacrifice at all.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If the entire law of Moses was obeyed there would not be a need for sacrifices for sin.

I'm not sure what your point is. The standard for righteousness is not perfection, but repentance.
Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

 

[YoursTrue]

Correct. My observance level is that of Conservative Judaism, but my theology is pretty liberal. So while I keep the Shabbat, eat kosher, observe the Holy Days, etc., I also accept scientific realities like evolution and the big bang. I think that textual criticism is one of many tools to help me better understand the sacred texts. Remember that Judaism is a religion of right action, not right belief. That's one of the great many things that distinguishes it from Christianity.

Later perhaps

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure what your point is. The standard for righteousness is not perfection, but repentance.
Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

True.

 

[YoursTrue]

Gotta go to sleep. God does not sleep. I do.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

So does this mean you keep the 613? You dont' eat shrimp? You dont' mow your lawn on Saturday? You make sure your wool suits don't have linen button holes

What has that got to do with keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus?

I think you are confusing Gods law of love with the 613 laws of the mishna...these were common by laws..,not part of the 10 commandments.

Revelation 14.12 is specifically the 10 commandments...even google returns the 10 commandments for rev 14.12.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What has that got to do with keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus?

I think you are confusing Gods law of love with the 613 laws of the mishna...these were common by laws..,not part of the 10 commandments.

Revelation 14.12 is specifically the 10 commandments...even google returns the 10 commandments for rev 14.12.

Metis said Christians are not obligated to observe the 613. You responded that Revelation stated the opposite. The opposite would be that Christians ARE obligated to the 613 commandments. However, that is such an unusual opinion for a Christian, that I'm double checking to make sure I understand you correctly. Hence my asking if you personally observe the 613?

Revelations 14;12 says "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." The commandments are given in the Torah, and there are 613, not 10.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Metis said Christians are not obligated to observe the 613. You responded that Revelation stated the opposite. T

No I did not say that at all.
A plain reading of my statement is that Revelation 14.12 patience of the saints are those who keep the commandment and have the faith of Jesus....I was specifically saying ONLY 10 commandments and NOT the 613 by-laws.

The by-laws argument is always used to deny the keeping of the Sabbath. It's a rubbish argument.

The second most common argument is that we are under the new covenant and that Christ gave us a new commandment " love the lord thy God with all thy heart and soul and mind..." this is also rubbish...Christ was quoting Deuteronomy 6 Titled "The Greatest Commandment"

5And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.b​

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Christ adding in the love thy neighbour phrase, Moses talked about the requirement for loving strangers in Deuternonomy 10!​

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The fact is, it's the modern Sunday worshipping Christians who are demanding by-laws worship...because Christs statement comes from them in Deuteronomy ch 6 and 10!​

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Finally, have you ever actually seen 613 by laws of the Jewish faith? You know it's not a literal number right? If you read the Wikipedia article on these bylaws, there aren't 613 agreed laws that they follow...its argued that its actually a calculation similar to that of the principle of mark of the beast. The point is, there are differing views on the actual number of bylaws even within Judaism it seems.​

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No I did not say that at all.

Yes you did. You said, and I quote, "Revelation 14.12 specifically tells us the opposite."

If you mispoke and want to walk that back, that's fine. But don't try to gaslight me.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Yes you did. You said, and I quote, "Revelation 14.12 specifically tells us the opposite."

If you mispoke and want to walk that back, that's fine. But don't try to gasligh

If you are incapable of reading and comprehension, what more can i do. I have fully explained what i said.

Go back and quote my full post instead of dog barking up trees!

And whilst you are doing that...note what you also claimed below...

"Remember that Judaism is a religion of right action, not right belief"

A question...

How does a jew know what the right action is WITHOUT the right belief?

You see the problem with your argument there right?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If you are incapable of reading and comorehension, what more can i do. I have fully explained what i said.

Go back and quote my full post instead of dog barking up trees!

And whilst you are doing that...not what you also claimed below...

"Remember that Judaism is a religion of right action, not right belief"

A question...

How does a jew know what the right action is WITHOUT the right belief?

You see the complete stupidity of your argument there right?

Look dude. YOU SAID "Revelation 14.12 specifically tells us the opposite." I didn't imagine it. You can try to gaslight me all you want. You can walk it back and explain what you REALLY meant to say. All that is fine. It doesn't change that I responded to exactly what you said.

I'm moving on. I've had my fill of this conversation.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Indigo, you are Dog barking up trees.

Quote my full post and then critique it appropriately...that is the honest thing to do. Otherwise, as you have said...you have had your fill and are done.
The problem here is that your liberal theology is your undoing even within the Jewish faith. A jew is going to have a very difficult time reasoning evolution within that faith I think...hence your very limited acceptance and application of Jewish doctrine. Essentially, you straw pluck.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Indigo, you are Dog barking up trees.

Quote my full post and then critique it appropriately...that is the honest thing to do. Otherwise, as you have said...you have had your fill and are done.
The problem here is that your liberal theology is your undoing even within the Jewish faith. A jew is going to have a very difficult time reasoning evolution within that faith I think...hence your very limited acceptance and application of Jewish doctrine. Essentially, you straw pluck.

 

[3rdAngel]

Indigo, you are Dog barking up trees.

Quote my full post and then critique it appropriately...that is the honest thing to do. Otherwise, as you have said...you have had your fill and are done.
The problem here is that your liberal theology is your undoing even within the Jewish faith. A jew is going to have a very difficult time reasoning evolution within that faith I think...hence your very limited acceptance and application of Jewish doctrine. Essentially, you straw pluck.

Kind of happens a lot in this forum. People will micro quote another persons post pulled from context and try and build arguments that others are not even talking about. To me that is a little dishonest. Its just another way of ignoring the post content and scriptures provided that might not agree with those responding. We are better off fully quoting another persons post and responding to it section by section in my view. Happy 2024!