"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[Subduction Zone]

Are you really saying that my asking about the value you see in the Bible implies that I see no value in the Bible?
Wow! Your mind operates in a weird way! Of course I see value in the Bible, SZ. I am a Christian.

Can you tell us which of Jesus’ teachings you find to be worthwhile? And which of the myths still evoke an emotional response in you? Thanks!

Is this the group you were a part of?

I see that rational reasoning still eludes you. And many of your actions here contradict your claims. I am sure that you believe that you are a Christian, but often you only appear to be a Christian of convenience.

I gave you your answers that is all that you get for now. Convince me that you are more than a Christian of convenience and we may revisit this in the future. Right now it is just a detour.

 

[2ndpillar]

Did look into that @2ndpillar, the wrong Greek words are being used and the context is to the presence of Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary (seven golden candlesticks) so cannot be the day of the Lord or the second coming.

I think the "testimony" of Yeshua was given in Aramaic, not Greek. John on the other hand, on earth, was speaking to the seven churches on earth, and the message was "he is coming with the clouds", which is to say, he is not on earth. The "message" was communicated via "His angel" (Rev 1:1). The "day of the Lord" is not the "second coming" but mirrors the same type of rest as will occur during the millennium. According to your own NT, the "son of man is the lord of the Sabbath", which is to say, the lord of the 7th day. (Mark 2:27-28)

 

[samtonga43]

I see that rational reasoning still eludes you. And many of your actions here contradict your claims. I am sure that you believe that you are a Christian, but often you only appear to be a Christian of convenience.

I gave you your answers that is all that you get for now. Convince me that you are more than a Christian of convenience and we may revisit this in the future. Right now it is just a detour.

And he scurries off again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And he scurries off again.

No. When you do not get the answers that you want that is not running away.

You seem to have a hard time understanding this. I could ask you what sexual position you used last night and with how many partners. If you refused to answer that would that be running away? If you responded "none of your business" that would be a proper answer.

This is why your attacks are false. You do not understand what claims people have to support and how.

 

[YoursTrue]

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

............................

Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

Biblically speaking, and otherwise, the word day does not have to refer to a 24-hour period. It can refer to a period of time, with a beginning and an end. For instance for someone to use the expression such as, "He really had his day then!" does not necessarily mean winning over a 24-hour period but rather a period of time. Or another expression can be, "His day is coming!" Also meaning something more than a 24-hour period. That's just for clarification and starters.

 

[3rdAngel]

Biblically speaking, and otherwise, the word day does not have to refer to a 24-hour period. It can refer to a period of time, with a beginning and an end. For instance for someone to use the expression such as, "He really had his day then!" does not necessarily mean winning over a 24-hour period but rather a period of time. Or another expression can be, "His day is coming!" Also meaning something more than a 24-hour period. That's just for clarification and starters.

Actually sis it does not work that way in the Greek. Let me show why if it might be helpful..

"the Lords day"

• Revelation 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος
• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20, 23. Keep in mind here that this is not as the phrase "day of the Lord" (ἡμέρα κυρίου) which is written in the genitive masculine case (see 2 Peter 3:10, etc, and also so called septuaginta uses). Also, the Greek meaning of day is from the Greek word ἡμέρα (hēméra | hay-mer'-ah) Derivation: feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning day, i.e. (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively, a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context) or parts of a day Yea are correct that κυριακη can also mean time but it is the context that determines word meaning and application here and you may want to consider that nearly all bible translations from Greek Scholars translate κυριακη as "day" and not time or a period of time. So the correct literal Greek translation is...

• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

Does this make sense sis?

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually sis it does not work that way in the Greek. Let me show why if it might be helpful..

"the Lords day"

• Revelation 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος
• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20, 23. Keep in mind here that this is not as the phrase "day of the Lord" (ἡμέρα κυρίου) which is written in the genitive masculine case (see 2 Peter 3:10, etc, and also so called septuaginta uses). Also, the Greek meaning of day is from the Greek word ἡμέρα (hēméra | hay-mer'-ah) Derivation: feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning day, i.e. (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively, a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context) or parts of a day Yea are correct that κυριακη can also mean time but it is the context that determines word meaning and application here and you may want to consider that nearly all bible translations from Greek Scholars translate κυριακη as "day" and not time or a period of time. So the correct literal Greek translation is...

• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

Does this make sense sis?

It's a bit too abstruse for me. I don't know dative terms, but I do know that some translators believe that Revelation 1:14 refers to Sunday. Although I don't believe the Scriptures really say that. I personally can't figure it that way. Because what John saw in Revelation 1 was a vision. Also, and I have been mentioning this for a while, we know that the Bible says God rested on the "7th Day." According to what I understand, and which I have shared in the past with at least one other, that day has not ended. It's still continuing. Every other day of creation has a beginning and an end. Remember also, Jesus said his Father keeps working and so does he. So the Lord's day or day of the Lord certainly would not mean Sunday, Saturday, or one weekday. Perhaps we can discuss more about this later.

 

[3rdAngel]

It's a bit too abstruse for me. I don't know dative terms, but I do know that some translators believe that Revelation 1:14 refers to Sunday. Although I don't believe the Scriptures really say that. I personally can't figure it that way. Because what John saw in Revelation 1 was a vision. Also, and I have been mentioning this for a while, we know that the Bible says God rested on the "7th Day." According to what I understand, and which I have shared in the past with at least one other, that day has not ended. It's still continuing. Every other day of creation has a beginning and an end. Remember also, Jesus said his Father keeps working and so does he. So the Lord's day or day of the Lord certainly would not mean Sunday, Saturday, or one weekday. Perhaps we can discuss more about this later.

Sis to simplify my first post all Greek Scholars in every bible translation translate τη κυριακη ημερα as "the Lords day" I think I also provided a link to this in the last post that you can check for yourself provided again here for convenience (bible translations). There is not a single translation that translates this as Sunday. As to the rest of your post Gods' seventh day Sabbath of the 4th commandment is linked directly into the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. Therefore it is simply every "seventh day" of the week that the scriptures say God blessed as a holy day of rest and as a memorial of Gods' creation and a celebration of God as a the creator of Heaven and earth that He made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 and commands His people not to forget in Exodus 20:8-11. Furthermore Jesus says "doing good" in God's Word is not breaking the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12. So when reading

"the Lords day"

• Revelation 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος
• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly.

So all the Greek here is in reference to a day the the Lord claims ownership over. So the questing then should be asked what day does the Lord specifically claim ownership over? We should simply therefore let the scriptures alone answer this question...

God's specifically claims "ownership" of the Sabbath day which is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The Greek words used in κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. So according to the scriptures answering this question the only day God claims ownership over concerning our time is "the Sabbath day" because on the seventh day of the creation week God rested and blessed the seventh day as a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27).

God bless

 

[YoursTrue]

Sis to simplify my first post all Greek Scholars in every bible translation translate τη κυριακη ημερα as "the Lords day" I think I also provided a link to this in the last post that you can check for yourself provided again here for convenience (bible translations). There is not a single translation that translates this as Sunday. As to the rest of your post Gods' seventh day Sabbath of the 4th commandment is linked directly into the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. Therefore it is simply every "seventh day" of the week. That the scriptures say God bless as a holy day of rest as a memorial of Gods' creation and a celebration of God as a the creator of Heaven and earth that He made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 and command His people not to forget in Exodus 20:8-11. Furthermore Jesus says "doing good" and God's Word is not breaking the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12. So when reading

"the Lords day"

• Revelation 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος
• Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly.

So all the Greek here is in reference to a day the the Lord claims ownership over. So the questing then should be asked what day does the Lord specifically claim ownership over? We should simply therefore let the scriptures alone answer this question...

God's specifically claims "ownership" of the Sabbath day which is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The Greek words used in κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. So according to the scriptures answering this question the only day God claims ownership over concerning our time is "the Sabbath day" because on the seventh day of the creation week God rested and blessed the seventh day as a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27).

God bless

I do believe that in English, yes, none of the translations I have read say Sunday instead of the Lord's Day. Some commentators, however, if I have read correctly, do say it means Sunday. However the context itself does not lead to the conclusion as far as I am concerned. And as I have mentioned, the 7th Day of the days of creation in Genesis has not ended. Every other day did, but not the 7th day. So again -- there is a difference of discernment between some as how it applies, wouldn't you say?

 

[3rdAngel]

I do believe that in English, yes, none of the translations I have read say Sunday instead of the Lord's Day. Some commentators, however, if I have read correctly, do say it means Sunday. However the context itself does not lead to the conclusion as far as I am concerned. And as I have mentioned, the 7th Day of the days of creation in Genesis has not ended. Every other day did, but not the 7th day. So again -- there is a difference of discernment between some as how it applies, wouldn't you say?

Yep but this is about what the scriptures actually say not commentators. There is no scripture in all the bible that links Revelation 1:10 to Sunday. So unless that can be proven from he scriptures it is only opinion. In fact the so called Scholars on this do not even agree. So if there is no scripture to support a Sunday view than it is only a man-made tradition and teaching unsupported by the scriptures. Especially when the scriptures alone state Gods' ownership to the day that Jesus is Lord over is the Sabbath day in Matthew 12:8.

 

[Soapy]

The post you are quoting from but did not address in post # 1152 linked proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. Did you want to try now addressing the content of the post now that you simply ignored? There a lot of scripture that disagree with your teachings. Does this not worry you? It should. There is a lot of scripture that is in disagreement with you. You may want to consider this.

Can anyone help me make sense of what 3rdAngel is talking about here….?

He just seems to be repeating himself and asking to address a post that I have already addressed.

What does this mean?

Well, it means that he has posted just to say he has posted because there isn’t anything he can say against what I posted to him.

If you notice, he does not state exactly what the issue is that hd thinks I didn’t address.

 

[Soapy]

Did you now lets test your claims and accusations and see if there is any truth in them....
I think your projecting. Please post me the links to the specific questions you believe I have not answered and lets discuss them and prove your claims. If you cannot all you are doing is copying your friend who does not address any of my post and scripture content that is in disagreement with Him, then projects what other people are saying to him making false claims and accusations that he is not able to prove and than when challenged runs away from the discussion. Are you copying your friend Soapy or is your friend copying you. Can you prove your claims? Or are you projecting and simply not telling the truth? If you believe I have missed something lets discuss it and post me the link please.

Replying to a post is not the same as addressing the content in the post that is in disagreement with you. For example, you have been provided many posts showing how you simple did not respond to any of the content in the posts you were responding to. Evidence was provided to you with some examples proving that you did not respond to the post content you were responding to. Post # 1152 is the latest example of you not responding to the post content and the scriptures in them that are in disagreement with you for which you had no response. While other examples were already posted in post # 942 linked, showing the same thing. Your second claim is also proven to be a false one.

This is great. Thank you. You have just proved my point. You do not read my posts and do not respond to the post and scripture content that proves why you are in error. Thank you for this - case closed. You just proved to everyone that everything I have been saying about you is true

“The onus is on you to prove that you answered all the questions I asked you….” Isn’t that your technique?

Also, do you not think it hypocritical that you are asking me to show you a post you did not respond to from me when you appear to claim that you read all of my posts contents:

How would you miss my question that I repeated several times even directly to you as well as sideways through SZ if you do indeed read all of what is posted to you?

Answer, you chose not to answer because it spoke against you…

I see and know your ways… It phases me not - only your persistence in disregarding questions set to you when it speaks against you (designed to wear down and frustrate an opponent) keeps you on top of most opponents since they don’t really properly understand the technique you use.

Well, You think I’m going to play the game that you play against SZ? I am not SZ!

Here is the way forward between you and I…

• You (or I) ask less that three questions in any one post
• I (or you) respond in answer to those questions
• After, three unsuccessful / unsatisfactory responses the exact topic must be dropped and each side can claim what they like concerning the state of the responses from the other person
• You must reduce the amount of material you present in your posts and certainly not post huge swathes of verses as though your opponent does not know these themselves (afterall, anything posted against one person can certainly equally be used against another if that person desires it to seem so… the truth is in the relevance and again, it is certain the opponent would know it if it applies to them!)

Agree? Disagree?

 

[3rdAngel]

Can anyone help me make sense of what 3rdAngel is talking about here….?

He just seems to be repeating himself and asking to address a post that I have already addressed.

What does this mean?

Well, it means that he has posted just to say he has posted because there isn’t anything he can say against what I posted to him.

If you notice, he does not state exactly what the issue is that hd thinks I didn’t address.

Here let me help you with that. The post you were quoting did not address the post content in post # 1152 linked that proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The post was asking you if you want to now start addressing the content of the post that you were quoting from that you simply ignored.

 

[3rdAngel]

“The onus is on you to prove that you answered all the questions I asked you….” Isn’t that your technique?

Well aren't you the funny one. All of your questions and post content were answered section by section and proven here in post # 1268 linked; post # 1269 linked; post # 1270 linked and post # 1271 linked for all to see that your making false claims again. My question to you dear friend is do you want to actually try now to respond to the content in these linked posts that prove from the scriptures why your earlier posts are in error or are you going to project, and deflect with false claims and accusations and run away? I am happy to discuss other things with you after you first address the content of the linked posts that are in disagreement with you that you simply choose to ignore because you they refute your earlier posts showing why they are in error. Ignoring Gods' Word (the scriptures) does not make them disappear. According to Jesus all the words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48. It therefore in your best interest dear friend to at least read the linked posts that are in disagreement with you and prayerfully consider what has been shared there as a help to you in care God is trying to reason with you through the scriptures posted there. As posted earlier ignoring Gods' Word does not make it disappear as it becomes our judge come judgement day. These words and posts I leave now between you and God as a witness against you, showing why you are not being honest or truthful.

 

[Soapy]

Did you now lets test your claims and accusations and see if there is any truth in them....
I think your projecting. Please post me the links to the specific questions you believe I have not answered and lets discuss them and prove your claims. If you cannot all you are doing is copying your friend who does not address any of my post and scripture content that is in disagreement with Him, then projects what other people are saying to him making false claims and accusations that he is not able to prove and than when challenged runs away from the discussion. Are you copying your friend Soapy or is your friend copying you. Can you prove your claims? Or are you projecting and simply not telling the truth? If you believe I have missed something lets discuss it and post me the link please.

Replying to a post is not the same as addressing the content in the post that is in disagreement with you. For example, you have been provided many posts showing how you simple did not respond to any of the content in the posts you were responding to. Evidence was provided to you with some examples proving that you did not respond to the post content you were responding to. Post # 1152 is the latest example of you not responding to the post content and the scriptures in them that are in disagreement with you for which you had no response. While other examples were already posted in post # 942 linked, showing the same thing. Your second claim is also proven to be a false one.

This is great. Thank you. You have just proved my point. You do not read my posts and do not respond to the post and scripture content that proves why you are in error. Thank you for this - case closed. You just proved to everyone that everything I have been saying about you is true

“The onus is on you to prove that you answered all the questions I asked you….” Isn’t that your technique?

You think I’m going to okay the game that you play against SZ? Well, I am not SZ!

Here is the way forward between you and I…

• You (or I) ask less that three questions in any one post
• I (or you) respond in answer to those questions
• After, three unsuccessful unsatisfactory responses the topic is dropped in the present form.

Either you are wrong partly or completely, or your opponent is wrong partly or completely… neither party is admitting defeat or understanding maybe that they are in error… or maybe, in fact, BOTH parties can be wrong - I’ve seen this many times where two parties argue to the ends of the earth over an issue that can never be resolved because both were arguing incorrectly….

Currently, you and SZ are in a deadly loop where both parties are accusing each other of mistakes, errors, discrepancies, dodgy postings, ignoring postings, repeated requests for the same questions…. No end …

And you try the same thing with me as though I don’t see you ???

It’s just fun to you, isn’t it? It’s all about winning - and no matter how much you are wrong you won’t stop until you wear the opposition down to giving in out of sheer exasperation.

Oh, and I see there’s a side discussion about being honest in answering according to truth and righteousness (1 Peter .. something!). SZ has asked you several times to respond to some question that he asked you but he seems to think you haven’t answered him…

Is that correct?

Do you do as you call out others for : not answering questions put to them?

Isn’t that hypocritical?

By the way, these minor questions are rhetorical - you don’t need to answer them to me!

 

[Soapy]

Your response here...

I do not know if English is your (ownership) first language but your (ownership) post here made me laugh a little. Instead of responding to the post content that is in disagreement with you as a distraction you want to play Mr Grammarly? Well here let me help you with that. When you are responding to my post that says "your (ownership) post" it means ownership of as in you the owner of the post. You cannot use you're or you are. That would make no sense at all. How does your (ownership) recommendation sound when your telling me that my post should read like this "Sorry you are post here absolutely makes no sense at all. What are you even talking about here?" Your (ownership) recommendation does not make any sense now does it. Perhaps you need to go back to English class.

Your response here...

So that is a no than you cannot provide me with a single scripture that says that we can now make any day the Sabbath. This is what the post you were responding to was asking you. So you have no scripture evidence to support your view now do you. Just be honest and say so.

Your response here...

You simply quoted from my post while ignoring it and not addressing it. Go figure. Anyhow lets address your claims here if it might be helpful. Yes God give his Word to His people that he names Israel because it was a name given by God to all those who choose to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. The other nations did not choose to follow the God of creation. They chose to reject the only true God of creation in order to worship other false gods and ignore Gods' Words so they chose not to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Now to your question. According to the scriptures Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for "man". The Greek word used here for "man" is ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos | G444) Derivation: from G435 and ὤψ (the countenance; Strong's: from G3700); and means mankind or human being. The Sabbath was made by God on Genesis 2:1-3 where it is written; " 1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Now pay attention. Genesis 2:1-3 is the seventh day of the creation week just after God created man (Adam and Eve) on the 6th day of the week in Genesis 1:26-31. Notice when God blessed and set aside the "seventh day" as a holy day of rest for all mankind there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses. Only Adam and Eve (the beginning of mankind ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos) agreeing with what Jesus says in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. These scrptures also prove you wrong dear friend. Open your eyes to all the scripture that is in disagreement with your opinions that you are unable to support with scripture or respond against all the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. - Something for you to at least pray about if you cannot respond to all these scriptures that are in disagreement with you here.

Your response here...

Once again you were corrected from your earlier post. God did not make His new covenant promise to gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12). Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word. Gentile believers however are grafted in to Christ through faith into Gods' Israel and we are all now one in Christ with Jewish believers (see Romans 11:13-27; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29; Ephesians 2:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13) Once again you lose not knowing the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. It looks like the pram comment is referring to you.

Your response here...

You are a funny one I will give you that even though there is nothing truthful in anything you say. You have been posted nothing but scripture all through our discussion as evidence that you are in error. All you provide is your words arguing against Gods Word that are in disagreement with you. You were provided scripture showing that Acts 15 was talking about the Mosaic shadow law of circumcision being a requirement for salvation of new gentile believers. Which according to Acts 15 circumcision from the law of Moses (not Gods 10 commandments) is not a requirement for new gentile believers. Then you were shown after the Jerusalem decision in Acts 15 that Paul says to the gentile believers in Corinthians that circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD is what is important (1 Corinthians 7:9) which is in disagreement with you. Your response was to simply ignore the scriptures in disagreement with your words that disagree with Gods' Word (the scriptures). Once again you lose. Now if you disagree with what has been shared from the scriptures here in any of my posts I challenge you to address my posts section by section addressing the posts content and prove from the scriptures why you are in disagreement. If you cannot dear friend why not simply receive Gods' correction and be blessed?

Take Care...

You are arguing in agreement with the Jews who strangulated themselves with the law - just as Jesus told them.

You wrote in a response to me what Jesus told the Jews about the Sabbath:

• “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:27)

What of the next verse:

• “So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:28)

Think what that verse should mean to you? It should mean that YOU ARE MASTER OF THE DAY in which you DO GOOD AND WORSHIP GOD AND REST FROM WORK.

It certainly DOES NOT TIE YOU DOWN to do good and worship God and rest from your work EXACTLY ON A SPECIFIC DAY oc the working week.

Q: If your working week starts on SUNDAY (according to the JEWISH working week - and there are even Gregorian calendar working weeks that start on Sunday!) are you going to stay off work against your rota in such cases as a firefighter, ambulance crew, soldier, air sea rescue, mountain rescue, … etc?

Here’s what the scriptures says about the Sabbath day:

• “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.” (Exodus 20:8-10)

Q: Hmmm… Are you saying that all mankind TODAY must comply with the bolded text above?

Do not strangle yourself with the law: Choose YOUR SABBATH DAY and ‘Do no work on it; Worship God; and Rest from working’

Jesus said that ‘Corporate worship’ was no longer to be the how God desires worship - it is to be “In Spirit and Truth”… in other words, PERSONAL WORSHIP.
Corporate worship is very repetitive, very rote, spoken words are used without thought, songs are sung for their beauty of tune rather than sincerity of meaning, etc, etc.:

• “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: ’These people honor [GOD] with their lips, but their hearts are far from [Him].“

It is far harder to be insincere when worshipping on a personal level than it is to be claiming to worship in a crowd chanting all too familiar words - hardly heartfelt!!

 

[Soapy]

Well aren't you the funny one. All of your questions and post content were answered section by section and proven here in post # 1268 linked; post # 1269 linked; post # 1270 linked and post # 1271 linked for all to see that your making false claims again. My question to you dear friend is do you want to actually try now to respond to the content in these linked posts that prove from the scriptures why your earlier posts are in error or are you going to project, and deflect with false claims and accusations and run away? I am happy to discuss other things with you after you first address the content of the linked posts that are in disagreement with you that you simply choose to ignore because you they refute your earlier posts showing why they are in error. Ignoring Gods' Word (the scriptures) does not make them disappear. According to Jesus all the words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48. It therefore in your best interest dear friend to at least read the linked posts that are in disagreement with you and prayerfully consider what has been shared there as a help to you in care God is trying to reason with you through the scriptures posted there. As posted earlier ignoring Gods' Word does not make it disappear as it becomes our judge come judgement day. These words and posts I leave now between you and God as a witness against you, showing why you are not being honest or truthful.

I’m not sure you understand your own arguments.

You keep reposting links to humongous threads and expect me to respond to them - after I already have…
That can mean only one thing: an attempt to frustrate your opponent…

You keep dodging any answers given to you and then claim answers have not been given and then re-request answers to already answered questions….

Round and round the mulberry bush!!

You are afraid to post the ACTUAL QUESTIONS you claim were not answered since doing so would expose the fact that the questions have already been answered.

Yet, you do not answer questions put to you did fear of exposing you’d own ignorance on the matter.

As far as I can see you think that the ways of the Jews are the only ways the whole world should behave … and certainly THAT WAS GOD’s intention in the beginning. However, the Jews subverted the laws and made them of ‘no effect’ … This is the contention with regard to SABBATH.

The Jews were working seven days a week - no rest - no time to properly worship God except for the several special worship days set aside during the year when all the Israelites would come together to worship AS ONE GROUP. Of course, when a number of Jews sinned by marrying women from a tribe God banned them from marrying into, these were ejected from the Jewish group - and they worshipped together separately as Samaritans (Samaria being the town they were ejected to after their sin!).

These Samaritans could not join in the worship services held in Jerusalem and so remained worshipping on the mountain that the Jews originally worshipped on before Jerusalem became the established and only authorised place to publicly worship God as a group.

Because the Jews felt so dutiful towards God’s laws (Sabbath day) in our case, they criticised everyone who were not doing things strictly as the law stated (Hmmm…. Sounds like someone I debate with !!!??).
And, as a result, they made the law a millstone around their own necks.

But all was not well! It would become obvious that such strictness to the law could never be upheld entirely and so many Jews broke the law WHEN IT SUITED THEM even while criticising their fellows for far lesser ‘offences against the same law’.

Take, for instance two examples of ‘offences’ they made against Jesus Christ. In one, Jesus was hungry and merely made ‘bread’ for himself … that was deemed as WORKING (being a Baker) and violated the law of the Sabbath. In another, Jesus healed a man on the sabbath. That was deemed a sin since it meant Jesus was being a Doctor.

Jesus pointed out that he was not violating the law of the Sabbath. In fact, Jesus pointed out that God was working EVEN ON THE SABBATH:

• “In his defence Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” (John 5:17)

Q: Now, if Jesus says it’s ok to WORK ON THE SABBATH DAY if it results in DOING GOOD; WORSHIPPING GOD; and RESTING from week day work, HOW is it a Sin to call a REST DAY FROM YOUR WEEKLY your SABBATH DAY.

Q: Is a Godly person to be strangulated by the law of the Sabbath Day because HIS SABBATH DAY falls on a NON-JEWISH (Friday sundown to Saturday Sundown) day?

 

[Soapy]

Here let me help you with that. The post you were quoting did not address the post content in post # 1152 linked that proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The post was asking you if you want to now start addressing the content of the post that you were quoting from that you simply ignored.

This does not show exactly what it is you are seeking an answer to.

 

[Soapy]

Oh yea @Soapy. I did not forget you dear friend lets have a discussion. I will need to spread my response to your last post to me over a few posts. I hope you are able to have a discussion with me to see if your claims in your post are true or not true. I will address all your post section by section and scripture by scripture to see if what you are saying is true or not true. I hope you can extend me the same courtesy. If I am wrong in what I am sharing with you than I certainly want to know it. I hope if you are wrong you feel the same way. So lets start....

Your response here...

Lets talk detail and bring everything to the light of Gods Word. We should not be afraid to test what we believe to be true because if what we believe the scriptures teach should not be in contradiction to the scriptures because the bible does not contradict itself so if we are holding on to a belief that is in contradiction to other scriptures on subject matter we can know that perhaps this might be a red flag that perhaps what we believe in regards to scripture might be in error. I will address your post here with a detailed scripture response. I hope in good faith if you disagree with anything that I have posted you might address my post content, nor providing false claims and accusations you are not able to prove but do what I do with you, providing evidence to show why I am in disagreement with you. Our mindset therefore should be to believe and follow what Gods Word says because our word unsupported by the scriptures is only our words in disagreement with Gods' when only God's Words are true (Romans 3:4) and we should believe and follow them (Acts 5:29).

Your response here...

For context you are responding to my post # 1081 linked that provided a lot of scripture that is in contradiction to your view that the Sabbath is any day of the week for which you never provided any scripture support for your view. In this section of your post instead of addressing any of the scriptures which are not my words but Gods' Word that is in disagreement with you all you do is deflect the scriptures with claims of false accusations you are unable to prove. You were provided scripture in the linked post proving you were in error. You also admitted that there was no scripture in the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that says Gods' 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Then your response is "I cam deceitful for asking you to prove your claims with scripture when you did not provide any? The evidence to our discussion here is scripture and you have not provided any accept your words in disagreement with Gods' Word which are the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. - So your argument here dear friend is with God not me because you are unable to prove your claims with the scriptures.

more to come...

……

I will need to spread my response to your last post to me over a few posts.

Ah, you see the point I’m making…

You post so much that any response necessitates an even longer response to you -

which creates an even longer response from you

which only means even longer responses…..

And you wonder why I don’t read all that you write!!!

You are a quick learner, are you? (NNTA!)

But WHEN ARE YOU going to learn to write LESS so that you can receive shorter more to the point answers??

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here let me help you with that. The post you were quoting did not address the post content in post # 1152 linked that proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The post was asking you if you want to now start addressing the content of the post that you were quoting from that you simply ignored.

You need to do more than just to link to old arguments of yours. If that is all you can do you make them failed arguments.

Once again when you debate and link that alone is not enough. Link quote, explain. If you do not do all three you have merely conceded the argument by debating improperly.