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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Oh yea @Soapy. I did not forget you dear friend lets have a discussion. I will need to spread my response to your last post to me over a few posts. I hope you are able to have a discussion with me to see if your claims in your post are true or not true. I will address all your post section by section and scripture by scripture to see if what you are saying is true or not true. I hope you can extend me the same courtesy. If I am wrong in what I am sharing with you than I certainly want to know it. I hope if you are wrong you feel the same way. So lets start....

Your response here...

Lets talk detail and bring everything to the light of Gods Word. We should not be afraid to test what we believe to be true because if what we believe the scriptures teach should not be in contradiction to the scriptures because the bible does not contradict itself so if we are holding on to a belief that is in contradiction to other scriptures on subject matter we can know that perhaps this might be a red flag that perhaps what we believe in regards to scripture might be in error. I will address your post here with a detailed scripture response. I hope in good faith if you disagree with anything that I have posted you might address my post content, nor providing false claims and accusations you are not able to prove but do what I do with you, providing evidence to show why I am in disagreement with you. Our mindset therefore should be to believe and follow what Gods Word says because our word unsupported by the scriptures is only our words in disagreement with Gods' when only God's Words are true (Romans 3:4) and we should believe and follow them (Acts 5:29).

Your response here...

For context you are responding to my post # 1081 linked that provided a lot of scripture that is in contradiction to your view that the Sabbath is any day of the week for which you never provided any scripture support for your view. In this section of your post instead of addressing any of the scriptures which are not my words but Gods' Word that is in disagreement with you all you do is deflect the scriptures with claims of false accusations you are unable to prove. You were provided scripture in the linked post proving you were in error. You also admitted that there was no scripture in the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that says Gods' 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Then your response is "I cam deceitful for asking you to prove your claims with scripture when you did not provide any? The evidence to our discussion here is scripture and you have not provided any accept your words in disagreement with Gods' Word which are the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. - So your argument here dear friend is with God not me because you are unable to prove your claims with the scriptures.

more to come...
  • I wrote to you saying that Jesus says that in time to come worship would no longer be on the mountain nor in Jerusalem.
So far you have not responded to that the verse I gave you but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.
  • I wrote to you asking you what a person who has to work on a Friday evening - Saturday evening should do as regards observing the Sabbath day
So far you have not responded to that but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.

  • I wrote to you saying that the Jews strangulated themselves with the law by too great an adherence to the exactness - Jesus told them that they should not do that since the law was made for their benefit … You say the equivalent of: EVERYONE MUST REST FROM BEING A FIREFIGHTER ON THE JEWISH SABBATH even if it means a house burning down or someone dying in a car crash!

So far you have not responded to that but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.

So who, between you and I, is the deceiver?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
  • I wrote to you saying that Jesus says that in time to come worship would no longer be on the mountain nor in Jerusalem.
So far you have not responded to that the verse I gave you but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.
  • I wrote to you asking you what a person who has to work on a Friday evening - Saturday evening should do as regards observing the Sabbath day
So far you have not responded to that but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.

  • I wrote to you saying that the Jews strangulated themselves with the law by too great an adherence to the exactness - Jesus told them that they should not do that since the law was made for their benefit … You say the equivalent of: EVERYONE MUST REST FROM BEING A FIREFIGHTER ON THE JEWISH SABBATH even if it means a house burning down or someone dying in a car crash!

So far you have not responded to that but rather, you just keep saying that I haven’t shown you anything.

So who, between you and I, is the deceiver?
So that is a no than? You do not want to address the post content of my posts that are in disagreement with you but instead make strawman arguments no one is talking about as a distraction because you cannot address the post content and the scriptures share with you that are in disagreement with you? All of your past questions and post content were answered section by section and proven here in post # 1268 linked; post # 1269 linked; post # 1270 linked and post # 1271 linked for all to see that your making false claims again. My question to you dear friend is do you want to actually try now to respond to the content in these linked posts that prove from the scriptures why your earlier posts are in error or are you going to project, and deflect with false claims and accusations and run away?
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
The onus is on you to prove that you answered all the questions I asked you….” Isn’t that your technique?

You think I’m going to okay the game that you play against SZ? Well, I am not SZ!

Here is the way forward between you and I…
  • You (or I) ask less that three questions in any one post
  • I (or you) respond in answer to those questions
  • After, three unsuccessful unsatisfactory responses the topic is dropped in the present form.
Either you are wrong partly or completely, or your opponent is wrong partly or completely… neither party is admitting defeat or understanding maybe that they are in error… or maybe, in fact, BOTH parties can be wrong - I’ve seen this many times where two parties argue to the ends of the earth over an issue that can never be resolved because both were arguing incorrectly….

Currently, you and SZ are in a deadly loop where both parties are accusing each other of mistakes, errors, discrepancies, dodgy postings, ignoring postings, repeated requests for the same questions…. No end …

And you try the same thing with me as though I don’t see you ???

It’s just fun to you, isn’t it? It’s all about winning - and no matter how much you are wrong you won’t stop until you wear the opposition down to giving in out of sheer exasperation.

Oh, and I see there’s a side discussion about being honest in answering according to truth and righteousness (1 Peter .. something!). SZ has asked you several times to respond to some question that he asked you but he seems to think you haven’t answered him…

Is that correct?

Do you do as you call out others for : not answering questions put to them?I

Isn’t that hypocritical?

By the way, these minor questions are rhetorical - you don’t need to answer them to me!

Well aren't you the funny one. All of your questions and post content were answered section by section and proven here in post # 1268 linked; post # 1269 linked; post # 1270 linked and post # 1271 linked for all to see that your making false claims again. My question to you dear friend is do you want to actually try now to respond to the content in these linked posts that prove from the scriptures why your earlier posts are in error or are you going to project, and deflect with false claims and accusations and run away?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You need to do more than just to link to old arguments of yours. If that is all you can do you make them failed arguments.
Why? They were not failed arguments. They were posts and scriptures provided proving what Soapy was saying was not true and that the linked posts provided have never been addressed by him but ignored (he ran away from discussing them).
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: Here let me help you with that. The post you were quoting did not address the post content in post # 1152 linked that proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The post was asking you if you want to now start addressing the content of the post that you were quoting from that you simply ignored.
Your response here...
This does not show exactly what it is you are seeking an answer to.
Sure it does. It shows a linked post that disagrees with you showing from scripture why you are in error and that you simply ignored it and did not address any of the scriptures of post content that is in disagreement with you. You are running away from the discussion.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why? They were not faith arguments. They were posts and scriptures provided proving what Soapy was saying was not true that have never been addressed.
What does "faith arguments" have to do with anything? That is the proper way to support your beliefs. Just linking past posts of yours is tacitly admitting that you have no point.

It is not that hard. In response to someone link, quote, explain.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Your response here...

Sure it does. It shows a linked post that disagrees with you showing from scripture why you are in error and that you simply ignored it and did not address any of the scriptures of post content that is in disagreement with you. You are running away from the discussion like your friend.
Did you link, quote, and explain? If not he appears to be right.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: I do not know if English is your (ownership) first language but your (ownership) post here made me laugh a little. Instead of responding to the post content that is in disagreement with you as a distraction you want to play Mr Grammarly? Well here let me help you with that. When you are responding to my post that says "your (ownership) post" it means ownership of as in you the owner of the post. You cannot use you're or you are. That would make no sense at all. How does your (ownership) recommendation sound when your telling me that my post should read like this "Sorry you are post here absolutely makes no sense at all. What are you even talking about here?" Your (ownership) recommendation does not make any sense now does it. Perhaps you need to go back to English class.
Your response here...
So that is a no than you cannot provide me with a single scripture that says that we can now make any day the Sabbath. This is what the post you were responding to was asking you. So you have no scripture evidence to support your view now do you. Just be honest and say so.
Your response here...
You simply quoted from my post while ignoring it and not addressing it. Go figure. Anyhow lets address your claims here if it might be helpful. Yes God give his Word to His people that he names Israel because it was a name given by God to all those who choose to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. The other nations did not choose to follow the God of creation. They chose to reject the only true God of creation in order to worship other false gods and ignore Gods' Words so they chose not to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Now to your question. According to the scriptures Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for "man". The Greek word used here for "man" is ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos | G444) Derivation: from G435 and ὤψ (the countenance; Strong's: from G3700); and means mankind or human being. The Sabbath was made by God on Genesis 2:1-3 where it is written; " 1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Now pay attention. Genesis 2:1-3 is the seventh day of the creation week just after God created man (Adam and Eve) on the 6th day of the week in Genesis 1:26-31. Notice when God blessed and set aside the "seventh day" as a holy day of rest for all mankind there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses. Only Adam and Eve (the beginning of mankind ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos) agreeing with what Jesus says in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. These scrptures also prove you wrong dear friend. Open your eyes to all the scripture that is in disagreement with your opinions that you are unable to support with scripture or respond against all the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. - Something for you to at least pray about if you cannot respond to all these scriptures that are in disagreement with you here.

Your response here...

Once again you were corrected from your earlier post. God did not make His new covenant promise to gentiles (see Hebrews 8:10-12). Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word. Gentile believers however are grafted in to Christ through faith into Gods' Israel and we are all now one in Christ with Jewish believers (see Romans 11:13-27; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29; Ephesians 2:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13) Once again you lose not knowing the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. It looks like the pram comment is referring to you.

Your response here...

You are a funny one I will give you that even though there is nothing truthful in anything you say. You have been posted nothing but scripture all through our discussion as evidence that you are in error. All you provide is your words arguing against Gods Word that are in disagreement with you. You were provided scripture showing that Acts 15 was talking about the Mosaic shadow law of circumcision being a requirement for salvation of new gentile believers. Which according to Acts 15 circumcision from the law of Moses (not Gods 10 commandments) is not a requirement for new gentile believers. Then you were shown after the Jerusalem decision in Acts 15 that Paul says to the gentile believers in Corinthians that circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD is what is important (1 Corinthians 7:9) which is in disagreement with you. Your response was to simply ignore the scriptures in disagreement with your words that disagree with Gods' Word (the scriptures). Once again you lose. Now if you disagree with what has been shared from the scriptures here in any of my posts I challenge you to address my posts section by section addressing the posts content and prove from the scriptures why you are in disagreement. If you cannot dear friend why not simply receive Gods' correction and be blessed?
Your response here...
You are arguing in agreement with the Jews who strangulated themselves with the law - just as Jesus told them.

You wrote in a response to me what Jesus told the Jews about the Sabbath:
  • “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:27)
What of the next verse:
  • “So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:28)
Think what that verse should mean to you? It should mean that YOU ARE MASTER OF THE DAY in which you DO GOOD AND WORSHIP GOD AND REST FROM WORK.

It certainly DOES NOT TIE YOU DOWN to do good and worship God and rest from your work EXACTLY ON A SPECIFIC DAY oc the working week.

Q: If your working week starts on SUNDAY (according to the JEWISH working week - and there are even Gregorian calendar working weeks that start on Sunday!) are you going to stay off work against your rota in such cases as a firefighter, ambulance crew, soldier, air sea rescue, mountain rescue, … etc?

Here’s what the scriptures says about the Sabbath day:
  • “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.” (Exodus 20:8-10)
Q: Hmmm… Are you saying that all mankind TODAY must comply with the bolded text above?

Do not strangle yourself with the law: Choose YOUR SABBATH DAY and ‘Do no work on it; Worship God; and Rest from working’

Jesus said that ‘Corporate worship’ was no longer to be the how God desires worship - it is to be “In Spirit and Truth”… in other words, PERSONAL WORSHIP.
Corporate worship is very repetitive, very rote, spoken words are used without thought, songs are sung for their beauty of tune rather than sincerity of meaning, etc, etc.:

  • “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: ’These people honor [GOD] with their lips, but their hearts are far from [Him].“
It is far harder to be insincere when worshipping on a personal level than it is to be claiming to worship in a crowd chanting all too familiar words - hardly heartfelt!!

Please address the post content you are responding to that is in disagreement with you. You are ignoring it again.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: Sure it does. It shows a linked post that disagrees with you showing from scripture why you are in error and that you simply ignored it and did not address any of the scriptures of post content that is in disagreement with you. You are running away from the discussion like your friend.
You response here
Did you link, quote, and explain? If not he appears to be right.
Yep see the post you are quoting from.. An appearance is untruthful and is why I posted the link that was not responded to as evidence of untruthfulness as posted earlier...
3rdAngel said: Here let me help you with that. The post you were quoting did not address the post content in post # 1152 linked that proves from the scriptures why what you posted in your earlier post was not biblical or supported in the scriptures. The post was asking you if you want to now start addressing the content of the post that you were quoting from that you simply ignored.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
What does "faith arguments" have to do with anything? That is the proper way to support your beliefs. Just linking past posts of yours is tacitly admitting that you have no point It is not that hard. In response to someone link, quote, explain.
Lets talk more when you have something truthful to offer and your willing to enter into a discussion and not deflect with false claims and accusations your unable to prove and when challenged run away. Until then I think it best that we will agree to disagree.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I see that rational reasoning still eludes you.
Oh my! This is from someone who is so irrational that he thinks that if A asks B about the value he (B) sees in the Bible then it has to mean that A sees no value in the Bible. Here is how his thinking process ‘works’.
SZ: I find the Bible to be of some value.
SAM: What value do you find in the Bible?
SZ: Ah! So you see no value in the Bible.
This, my friends, is the product of ‘rational reasoning’.
Unbelievable!
And many of your actions here contradict your claims. I am sure that you believe that you are a Christian, but often you only appear to be a Christian of convenience.
As I have said before, SZ, how something appears to you is not necessarily how things are. Especially when you produce the kind of irrational rubbish I have just pointed out.
I gave you your answers that is all that you get for now.
You are fooling no one but yourself, SZ. You gave me no answers. To prove my case I only need to ask the questions that you run away from. Here they are again:--
You accused me of repeating false personal attacks with no evidence. I responded: “False personal attacks?”
Where?
I asked: How can anyone have a serious discussion with someone who :-
1 Is unable to provide one shred of evidence for accusative statements he has made.
2 Pretends he is not answering honestly because the person he has accused falsely is not debating honestly!?
3 Runs away because he is afraid to admit that he has no evidence.
No response
Where did 3rdAngel distort what SZ said? No response
What bogus questions? What false charges? (#1253)
No response
Which of Jesus’ teachings do you find to be worthwhile?
No response

Which of the myths evoke an emotional response in you?
No response

These are questions you have not answered. That is how you run away. How do I prove this? By continually asking the same questions.
Once again, not someone posting an answer that you do not like is not running away.
Can you rephrase this, please; it makes no sense.
No response.
Well since I was not guilty of what you or he claimed then I would have say everything
Can you rephrase this, please; it is not at all clear.
No response.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
No. When you do not get the answers that you want that is not running away.
It would be good to get any intelligent answers from you, SZ.
You seem to have a hard time understanding this. I could ask you what sexual position you used last night and with how many partners. If you refused to answer that would that be running away? If you responded "none of your business" that would be a proper answer.
You can ask me whatever you like, SZ I will not refuse to answer. Interesting that you picked that question as an example of one you could ask. Hmm…. ;)
This is why your attacks are false. You do not understand what claims people have to support and how.
See bold. This is garbled prose. What are you trying to say?
Oh, and the word 'attacks'. You use this a lot, and I have to remind you that this is just an internet forum. We are not playing soldiers. (At least I'm not - I am a grown up).
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
You need to do more than just to link to old arguments of yours. If that is all you can do you make them failed arguments.

Once again when you debate and link that alone is not enough. Link quote, explain. If you do not do all three you have merely conceded the argument by debating improperly.
SZ, I have yet to see any 'debate' in this forum in which you play a part. But maybe I'm missing something; can you help?
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure you understand your own arguments.

You keep reposting links to humongous threads and expect me to respond to them - after I already have…
That can mean only one thing: an attempt to frustrate your opponent…

You keep dodging any answers given to you and then claim answers have not been given and then re-request answers to already answered questions….

Round and round the mulberry bush!!

You are afraid to post the ACTUAL QUESTIONS you claim were not answered since doing so would expose the fact that the questions have already been answered.

Yet, you do not answer questions put to you did fear of exposing you’d own ignorance on the matter.

As far as I can see you think that the ways of the Jews are the only ways the whole world should behave … and certainly THAT WAS GOD’s intention in the beginning. However, the Jews subverted the laws and made them of ‘no effect’ … This is the contention with regard to SABBATH.

The Jews were working seven days a week - no rest - no time to properly worship God except for the several special worship days set aside during the year when all the Israelites would come together to worship AS ONE GROUP. Of course, when a number of Jews sinned by marrying women from a tribe God banned them from marrying into, these were ejected from the Jewish group - and they worshipped together separately as Samaritans (Samaria being the town they were ejected to after their sin!).

These Samaritans could not join in the worship services held in Jerusalem and so remained worshipping on the mountain that the Jews originally worshipped on before Jerusalem became the established and only authorised place to publicly worship God as a group.

Because the Jews felt so dutiful towards God’s laws (Sabbath day) in our case, they criticised everyone who were not doing things strictly as the law stated (Hmmm…. Sounds like someone I debate with !!!??).
And, as a result, they made the law a millstone around their own necks.

But all was not well! It would become obvious that such strictness to the law could never be upheld entirely and so many Jews broke the law WHEN IT SUITED THEM even while criticising their fellows for far lesser ‘offences against the same law’.

Take, for instance two examples of ‘offences’ they made against Jesus Christ. In one, Jesus was hungry and merely made ‘bread’ for himself … that was deemed as WORKING (being a Baker) and violated the law of the Sabbath. In another, Jesus healed a man on the sabbath. That was deemed a sin since it meant Jesus was being a Doctor.

Jesus pointed out that he was not violating the law of the Sabbath. In fact, Jesus pointed out that God was working EVEN ON THE SABBATH:
  • “In his defence Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” (John 5:17)
Q: Now, if Jesus says it’s ok to WORK ON THE SABBATH DAY if it results in DOING GOOD; WORSHIPPING GOD; and RESTING from week day work, HOW is it a Sin to call a REST DAY FROM YOUR WEEKLY your SABBATH DAY.

Q: Is a Godly person to be strangulated by the law of the Sabbath Day because HIS SABBATH DAY falls on a NON-JEWISH (Friday sundown to Saturday Sundown) day?
Who was complaining about long posts...? :D
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It would be good to get any intelligent answers from you, SZ.

You can ask me whatever you like, SZ I will not refuse to answer. Interesting that you picked that question as an example of one you could ask. Hmm…. ;)

See bold. This is garbled prose. What are you trying to say?
Oh, and the word 'attacks'. You use this a lot, and I have to remind you that this is just an internet forum. We are not playing soldiers. (At least I'm not - I am a grown up).
I asked you questions in the past. You never answered. And I should not be surprised that a simple analogy is beyond your ability to understand.

Lastly on a forum one is sometimes limited in one's responses by the rules of that forum I have been dinged to often for pointing out when people have been lying in the past to use more accurate terminology here. It s not that topics are beyond my ability to answer. It appear that the answers are beyond your ability to understand.

That is why I will always answer questions when people do so properly.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Oh my! This is from someone who is so irrational that he thinks that if A asks B about the value he (B) sees in the Bible then it has to mean that A sees no value in the Bible. Here is how his thinking process ‘works’.
SZ: I find the Bible to be of some value.
SAM: What value do you find in the Bible?
SZ: Ah! So you see no value in the Bible.
This, my friends, is the product of ‘rational reasoning’.
Unbelievable!

As I have said before, SZ, how something appears to you is not necessarily how things are. Especially when you produce the kind of irrational rubbish I have just pointed out.

You are fooling no one but yourself, SZ. You gave me no answers. To prove my case I only need to ask the questions that you run away from. Here they are again:--
You accused me of repeating false personal attacks with no evidence. I responded: “False personal attacks?”
Where?
I asked: How can anyone have a serious discussion with someone who :-
1 Is unable to provide one shred of evidence for accusative statements he has made.
2 Pretends he is not answering honestly because the person he has accused falsely is not debating honestly!?
3 Runs away because he is afraid to admit that he has no evidence.
No response
Where did 3rdAngel distort what SZ said? No response
What bogus questions? What false charges? (#1253)
No response
Which of Jesus’ teachings do you find to be worthwhile?
No response

Which of the myths evoke an emotional response in you?
No response

These are questions you have not answered. That is how you run away. How do I prove this? By continually asking the same questions.

Can you rephrase this, please; it makes no sense.
No response.

Can you rephrase this, please; it is not at all clear.
No response.
It is as very bad sing when someone feels it is necessary to writ a book in response to a rather straight forward post.

TLDR.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I sing very well.
And you are running away again, SZ.
Hardly. You need to be polite to demand answers. When you drive people away and they refuse to answer that is not "running away". I was extremely polite when I pointed out running away. I even included the questions that were being avoided.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
I asked you questions in the past. You never answered.
I answered. You didn't like my answers.
And I should not be surprised that a simple analogy is beyond your ability to understand.
Analogy? Where? (Don't run away!)
Lastly on a forum one is sometimes limited in one's responses by the rules of that forum I have been dinged to often for pointing out when people have been lying in the past to use more accurate terminology here. It s not that topics are beyond my ability to answer. It appear that the answers are beyond your ability to understand.
Sweet irony! I understand you very well, SZ. And if you ever do answer my questions (see #1312) I can assure you that I will understand them, unless they are garbled, as is your wont.
But wait!! This is not another excuse I see before me?!? Surely not! Are you really saying that I will not understand, so you don't have to answer? What a truly pathetic excuse!
That is why I will always answer questions when people do so properly.
When people do what properly, SZ? Dance to your tune?
Ask you questions you understand and are able to answer?
:D
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Hardly. You need to be polite to demand answers. When you drive people away and they refuse to answer that is not "running away". I was extremely polite when I pointed out running away. I even included the questions that were being avoided.
Your excuses won't wash any more, SZ. They are too weak.
 
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