• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
"Why do you think it is a bad idea to be polite?"
is akin to
"When did you stop beating your wife?"
or
When did you begin to think that you are intelligent?

They are assumptions / loaded questions.
It would be if the person that one was talking to had never shown signs of being rude. Did you not notice I am the not the only one that can see how you are being rather rude at times?

If you had seen a person beating his wife the question "When did you stop beating your wife" can be appropriate. And that is where your analogy fails.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well, you say I need to try again. Do you have any authority here?
***
You find a smiley insulting? Aren’t you being somewhat over-sensitive?
***

You are assuming that I am 'afraid to debate' because it looks this way to you. However, just because "It looks to X" that Y is afraid to debate, does not mean that Y is afraid to debate.

Aren't you assuming that because something seems to you to be true, it is true?
It is your continued rudeness that makes the abuse of a smiley rude. And you are back to claiming without showing any evidence. You do not seem to understand when and how to use evidence. When you accuse someone of something, such as "assuming" you need something stronger than failed logic. One cannot ignore one's past behavior.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
  • “Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death.(Exodus 31:15)
  • The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.” (Exodus 31:16)
  • [The Sabbath day] will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” (Exodus 31:17)
Since you believe the Sabbath should be kept, do you believe the penalty for breaking the Sabbath law should be enforced?

And is it just the 10 Commandments that were to be kept for all their generations, or was it all of the laws?

And what do you believe about all these other Christians that don't follow the Sabbath? Is it something that makes them unsaved? Since, this would be a false belief on their part.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Since you believe the Sabbath should be kept, do you believe the penalty for breaking the Sabbath law should be enforced?
Hi GC nice to meet you and thanks for joining us. I know this was for another member but I thought to add some comments that might be helpful as I have studied this topic in a lot of detail from the Old testament scriptures. You are referring to the death penalty under the civil laws of Israel in the old covenant right (Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2)? My answer is no absolutely not. The reason being is that the death penalties were civil laws for the physical nation of Israel to teach God's people that the wages of opening sinning and rejecting God's law was death. The same death penalty was not restricted to Gods' 4th commandment as a civil law for Israel but the same death penalty was given for all of God's 10 commandments. There is nothing new here as the death penalty is the same in the new covenant to all those who reject Jesus (see Romans 6:23) but will not be enforced on the wicked until the second coming.

According to the scriptures of the old covenant, the same death penalty was given to anyone who was caught breaking 1st Commandment (Exodus 20:3), Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20); 2nd Commandment, (Exodus 20:4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15); 3rd Commandment (Exodus 20:7), Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Leviticus 24:16); 4th Commandment Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) see Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; 5th commandment (Exodus 20:12) honor your father and mother see Exodus 21:15-17; 6th commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13) see Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33; 7th commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14) see Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5; 8th Commandment thou shall not steal (Exodus 20:15) but only applied to man stealing or kidnapping (Exodus 21:16); 9th commandment (Exodus 20:16) thou shall not bear false witness see Deuteronomy 19:15-21 and the 10th commandments thou shall not covet (Exodus 20:17) see Joshua 7:21-25.

This of course all ceased during the time of Christ when Israel was under Roman rule and law and at the death of Christ bringing an end to the old covenant and the bringing in of the new covenant. The death penalty is still in force today because it is written that the wages of sin is death for those that do not repent before the time of judgement is finished (Romans 6:23; James 2:8-12) but enforcement of the death penalty does not take place until the second coming (see Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8 etc etc)

The only difference today is that we are in the new covenant now so we no longer put people to open death because we are not in the physical nation of Israel in the flesh or under the old covenant civil laws of Israel. The death penalty for sin is still the same however for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 but Jesus says now that Vengeance is mine and his reward will be with him at the 2nd coming *Romans 12:19-21; Revelation 22:12. God's Word does not teach or support the false doctrine of lawlessness (without law) and Gods' 4th commandment in the new covenant is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Exodus 20:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.
And is it just the 10 Commandments that were to be kept for all their generations, or was it all of the laws?
According to the scriptures there are many laws in the bible that God wants us to believe and obey. At the same time there are many laws in the old covenant that are "shadow laws" pointing to Jesus and His role and new ministration under Gods' new covenant promise (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 8:10-12). For example all those laws relating to the earthly Sanctuary, the Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices and sin offerings, Feast days etc were all pointing to Jesus as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all (Hebrews 10:10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:7-8; Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22). All these laws to do with the earthly Sanctuary and old covenant laws of forgiveness of sins and sin offerings and the Levitical Priesthood are all now fulfilled and continued in Jesus as the promised Christ and Messiah to who they were all pointing to in the New covenant promise of Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:10-12. However, these old covenant "shadow laws" (Hebrews 9:1-27) are not the same as God's eternal moral laws (the 10 commandments see Exodus 20:3-17) that under the new covenant give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *see Romans 3:20. So the role of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant have the same role they did in the old covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God as sinners breaking all of Gods' law. Therefore to break the Sabbath which is one of Gods' 10 commandments in the bible is sin in the new covenant. There is not a single scripture in all of the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is simply a man-made teaching and tradition that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9 that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God.
And what do you believe about all these other Christians that don't follow the Sabbath? Is it something that makes them unsaved? Since, this would be a false belief on their part.
For me personally, I believe according to the scriptures that God has His people in every Church who is living up to all the light of God's Word that He has revealed to them (see John 10:16). However, most of these Church's have departed God and His Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions. According to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship the father must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (see John 4:23-24). God is calling all of is where ever we might be back to His Word so we can worship Him in Spirit and in truth. According to the scriptures as we grow in the knowledge of Gods' Word (Ephesians 4:13), God does not hold us accountable for sin until He gives us a knowledge of what sin is (see James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31). When God gives us a knowledge of His Word that shows what sin is then God expects us to believe and follow what His Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. At this time, when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word, according to the scriptures, if we choose not to believe and follow what Gods' Word says then God holds us accountable for sin and we will be in danger of the judgement unless we repent of our sins and believe and obey what Gods' Word says (see Hebrews 10:26-31).

Hope this was helpful

Take Care.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
It would be if the person that one was talking to had never shown signs of being rude.
You are just not getting this, SZ. Even if I had shown signs of being rude, why does this mean that think it is a bad idea to be polite?
If you had seen a person beating his wife the question "When did you stop beating your wife" can be appropriate. And that is where your analogy fails.
Sorry, but no. Your understanding of the analogy fails. You say that I think it is a bad idea to be polite? But you have zero evidence. You are assuming, again.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
It is your continued rudeness that makes the abuse of a smiley rude. And you are back to claiming without showing any evidence. You do not seem to understand when and how to use evidence. When you accuse someone of something, such as "assuming" you need something stronger than failed logic. One cannot ignore one's past behavior.
SZ, this is really simple. You are accusing me of believing it is a bad idea to be polite.
But you have no evidence that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.
You are assuming that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.

Goodness me, SZ! This ought not to be difficult to understand.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
It is your continued rudeness that makes the abuse of a smiley rude. And you are back to claiming without showing any evidence. You do not seem to understand when and how to use evidence. When you accuse someone of something, such as "assuming" you need something stronger than failed logic. One cannot ignore one's past behavior.
I abused a smiley? How?
Don't try to ignore your past behavior, SZ. Just learn from it and move on.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Try to remember this one lesson, you don't get to claim "assumption" with impunity. Every time that you do so you really need to justify it. If you say "it was obvious" then it clearly was not.
So, if I say something is obviously the case, it is not the case.
Another positive statement, SZ. Over to you…
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You are just not getting this, SZ. Even if I had shown signs of being rude, why does this mean that think it is a bad idea to be polite?

Sorry, but no. Your understanding of the analogy fails. You say that I think it is a bad idea to be polite? But you have zero evidence. You are assuming, again.
To be honest here sis. I do not see that you have been rude anywhere in your responses

God bless
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You are just not getting this, SZ. Even if I had shown signs of being rude, why does this mean that think it is a bad idea to be polite?


Try to reason rationally. There usually is a reason for rudeness. People that are constantly losing an argument quite often use rudeness because the alternative is to admit that one is wrong. You have been losing from the start here. Clearly you do not want to own up to that. Hence for you it eould be a bad idea.

[/B]

Sorry, but no. Your understanding of the analogy fails. You say that I think it is a bad idea to be polite? But you have zero evidence. You are assuming, again.

No, you simply pretend the evidence does not exist.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So, if I say something is obviously the case, it is not the case.
Another positive statement, SZ. Over to you…
Another logical fail. Does everything have to be painfully explained to you? If a person can only state "it is obvious" in a situation where evidence is needed, even though it has been explained to them why evidence is needed it is a rather good sign that there is no such evidence.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
SZ, this is really simple. You are accusing me of believing it is a bad idea to be polite.
But you have no evidence that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.
You are assuming that I believe it is a bad idea to be polite.

Goodness me, SZ! This ought not to be difficult to understand.
No, there is plenty of evidence that you believe it is a bad idea to be polite. Your continual rudeness even after being corrected is evidence of that. You might not understand the concept of evidence.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Sorry, but I don't want anyone to think. It sometimes causes headaches. Just name the verse that says this.
I wasn’t quoting a verse - I was just saying that I think I understand what the badly written text was meant to be saying: a clarification - not a statement or agreement with a claim:
  • To wit: there is no verse or even any kind of claim of saints ‘RETURNING’ to Heaven
  • It is more like that: When Jesus RETURNS from Heaven, he will take up the saints from the earth and take them WITH HIM up to Heaven to rule as Kings and Priests (Rev 5:10)
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t quoting a verse - I was just saying that I think I understand what the badly written text was meant to be saying: a clarification - not a statement or agreement with a claim:
  • To wit: there is no verse or even any kind of claim of saints ‘RETURNING’ to Heaven
  • It is more like that: When Jesus RETURNS from Heaven, he will take up the saints from the earth and take them WITH HIM up to Heaven to rule as Kings and Priests (Rev 5:10)
Thank you for the clarification. I see nothing about taking anyone anywhere. That is why I was asking for a verse. The only verse I see says Jesus will return to earth and gather people to him so that they can be with him wherer he is. When he returns to earth he will be on earth not in heaven. Nothing says he will take people to heaven.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Since you believe the Sabbath should be kept, do you believe the penalty for breaking the Sabbath law should be enforced?

And is it just the 10 Commandments that were to be kept for all their generations, or was it all of the laws?

And what do you believe about all these other Christians that don't follow the Sabbath? Is it something that makes them unsaved? Since, this would be a false belief on their part.
Another one that has joined in a discussion thread and taken the wrong line on what a particular person (aka: me, in this case) was saying.

I am, in fact, not expressing a ‘7th day’ Jewish Sabbath. I was not quoting those verses for that reason. You might like to read my previous posts to get the point I was making - but, in fact, that wouldn’t do any good. It’s best to just not make accusations or make pointed remarks at someone when they are not making out something that you very wrongly accuse them of doing.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Thank you for the clarification. I see nothing about taking anyone anywhere. That is why I was asking for a verse. The only verse I see says Jesus will return to earth and gather people to him so that they can be with him wherer he is. When he returns to earth he will be on earth not in heaven. Nothing says he will take people to heaven.
I’m glad we got part of that cleared up.

The other part pertains to the ‘ELECT’, those whose names were pre-written in the book of life ‘since before the foundation of the world:
  • “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love, he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— ” (Eph 1:5)
  • “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.” (Rev 7:4)
  • Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24)
The 144,000 is a symbolic number representing the ELECT who have been pre-chosen to rule as kings and priest WITH Jesus FROM HEAVEN over the earth.

Those chosen to live eternity in Paradise are these:
  • “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.” (Rev 7:9)
God purposed that the earth should be ‘filled’ by mankind - and a paradise made of the earth just as he examples in the Garden of Eden. Thus, the whole earth (which is creation - not just the planet EARTH!) will, over eternity, be populated and made a glorious environment full of wonders as yet undreamt of.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I’m glad we got part of that cleared up.

The other part pertains to the ‘ELECT’, those whose names were pre-written in the book of life ‘since before the foundation of the world:
  • “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love, he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— ” (Eph 1:5)
  • “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.” (Rev 7:4)
  • Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24)
The 144,000 is a symbolic number representing the ELECT who have been pre-chosen to rule as kings and priest WITH Jesus FROM HEAVEN over the earth.

Those chosen to live eternity in Paradise are these:
  • “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.” (Rev 7:9)
God purposed that the earth should be ‘filled’ by mankind - and a paradise made of the earth just as he examples in the Garden of Eden. Thus, the whole earth (which is creation - not just the planet EARTH!) will, over eternity, be populated and made a glorious environment full of wonders as yet undreamt of.
Soapy, I am starting to like you more. I also think the earth, either all or part of creation. will be populated by people who have gained eternal life. I see nothing about any of them "going to heaven" which is what most people hope to do. They would be better off trying to get to the glorious paradise that the earth will be.
 
Top