"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[Soapy]

Please forgive me dear friend but I cannot stop sharing the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. Did you notice that you did not address a single scripture showing why the scriptures you are responding to do not mean what they say? All you posted in response to the scriptures shared with you earlier was you arguing against what the scriptures were saying verbatim in post # 2174 linked. Did you want to have another go this time proving from the scriptures, why the scriptures posted here are not calling Jesus God and have application to plural God (trinity)?

Here you go. Prove to us from the scriptures this time, that these scriptures below are not saying Jesus is God and the God of creation by the Apostles and God is not both plural and individual in meaning?

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

At creation...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing.

Take Care.

The verses do not say that Jesus is God because no one who wrote the scriptures ever thought Jesus was God. It is the trinitarian translators who modified the scriptures in an attempt to claim that they show Jesus is God.

Jesus knew that this would occur and gave a warning that there would be severe punishment for those who carried out such irreverences.

The scriptures also says that there will be many who will believe the lie - and worse, that even kings would indulge in the ‘Whore of Babylon’ - which is the !Holy! Roman Catholic Church - Catholicism and its debauched Trinity teachings.

Where you ask for ‘proof’ that verses do not show Jesus is not God… is simply the ridiculous trick of requesting someone prove a negative: No one thought Jesus was God so no one wrote anything that DISPROVES HE WASN’T God!

The nearest thing is where Jesus is accused of ‘Making himself [into a] God’ by stating that he was ‘The Son of God’. This claim from the Jews was in line with nations like the Egyptians in which the Pharoahs believed themselves to be ‘Gods’ by virtue of being ‘Sons of their Gods’ - a claim we know to be complete nonsense!

You will note from the story that Jesus emphatically denied any such acquaintance, saying, ‘I only said that God was my Father!… and, in fact, even God, himself, called those men of valour in his name who received his word, he called ‘Gods’.

There are no other claims on that level in the whole scriptures and so blowing that out of the water leaves you with nothing of a claim of Jesus ‘being God’ or ‘Being called God’.

That ultra-embarrassment you posted of Thomas calling Jesus ‘My God’ is so farcical that it hurts to know an intelligent man such as yourself using that as a claim.. really, 3rdAngel, you truly amaze me!

 

[Soapy]

I am never persuaded by a lie, Soapy.

I cannot show scriptures which describe a ridiculous claim, but I can show some which show the hypostatic union.
John 1:14: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Colossians 2:9: For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Romans 1:4: And was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
John 17:5: And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
John 10:30: I and the Father are one.”
John 8:58: Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

These are just a few. Let me know if you want more.


Three possibilities here:
1. You are not reading the words I am posting to you.
2. You are reading them but not understanding their meaning.
3. You do understand, but cannot escape the brain-washing to which you have been subjected, and so cannot accept that:--
God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
God is One Being, three Persons.
God is Triune.
Jesus alone is NOT God, and therefore there are no ‘twin personalities’.

Get your act together, Soapy, and throw away your strawmen.


When you start answering my questions to you, I will return the favour.

Your delusion is showing greatly.

Jesus alone is NOT God, and therefore there are no ‘twin personalities’.

That makes no sense. What has Jesus alone is not god have to do with twin personalities… the point is that you say Jesus is man AND he is God at the same time (but it doesn’t matter even if he was either or both at different times)… which can’t explain how he, Jesus, knew all things at one moment and then didn’t know all things in another moment.

It also doesn’t explain how he was anointed BY GOD when you say he WAS GOD… not how he died when God cannot die…!!!

And isn’t it a strange thing that ‘Jesus-God’ preferred to be ruler over a limited flesh-constrained world subject to the laws of physics rather than the greater kingdom that he already ruled over as God!

Im not surprised you say you won’t answer any more questions from me - Yeah! The embarrassment is too much for you….

 

[3rdAngel]

The verses do not say that Jesus is God because no one who wrote the scriptures ever thought Jesus was God. It is the trinitarian translators who modified the scriptures in an attempt to claim that they show Jesus is God.

Jesus knew that this would occur and gave a warning that there would be severe punishment for those who carried out such irreverences.

The scriptures also says that there will be many who will believe the lie - and worse, that even kings would indulge in the ‘Whore of Babylon’ - which is the !Holy! Roman Catholic Church - Catholicism and its debauched Trinity teachings.

Where you ask for ‘proof’ that verses do not show Jesus is not God… is simply the ridiculous trick of requesting someone prove a negative: No one thought Jesus was God so no one wrote anything that DISPROVES HE WASN’T God!

The nearest thing is where Jesus is accused of ‘Making himself [into a] God’ by stating that he was ‘The Son of God’. This claim from the Jews was in line with nations like the Egyptians in which the Pharoahs believed themselves to be ‘Gods’ by virtue of being ‘Sons of their Gods’ - a claim we know to be complete nonsense!

You will note from the story that Jesus emphatically denied any such acquaintance, saying, ‘I only said that God was my Father!… and, in fact, even God, himself, called those men of valour in his name who received his word, he called ‘Gods’.

There are no other claims on that level in the whole scriptures and so blowing that out of the water leaves you with nothing of a claim of Jesus ‘being God’ or ‘Being called God’.

That ultra-embarrassment you posted of Thomas calling Jesus ‘My God’ is so farcical that it hurts to know an intelligent man such as yourself using that as a claim.. really, 3rdAngel, you truly amaze me!

Hello Soapy nice to see you dear friend. Did you notice you did not address anything from the scriptures you are arguing against that are in disagreement with your words that are not Gods' Word? Here let me post them again for you and for all to see you trying to explain away what the scriptures say verbatim with your own words in disagreement with what scripture actually says. I will let the scriptures speak for them selves showing why what you post Soapy has not truth in it.

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

At creation...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing.

Take Care dear friend.

 

[Soapy]

Sorry I do not know what you are talking about here Soapy. You do know the difference between the Creator and the created right and man and God?

I think you are admitting you realise your error here.

The questions I put to you are quite simple - and for you to say that you do not know what I’m talking about shows that you are being dishonest.

This tactic is something I’ve seen from Trinitarians many times over - it’s a taught way of not answering an explicit question… and then attack the questioner.

Ok, so now you know I’m calling you out, I’ll ask one of those questions again:

What does this verse mean to you and the trinitarian claim that Jesus was the son of God ‘from the beginning’ (that there wasn’t a time when he wasn’t the son of God):

• “In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:5)

Is such a statement (the bolded part) not something that amounts to an Adoption Declaration?

An add-on question from that verse: Who is Jesus Christ, the high priest to? Is the answer not, ‘God’?
(Therefore trinity claims that God I his own high priest!)

 

[Soapy]

Hello Soapy nice to see you dear friend. Did you notice you did not address anything from the scriptures you are arguing against that are in disagreement with your words that are not Gods' Word? Here let me post them again for you and for all to see you trying to explain away what the scriptures say verbatim with your own words in disagreement with what scripture actually says. I will let the scriptures speak for them selves showing why what you post Soapy has not truth in it.

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

At creation...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing.

Take Care dear friend.

Oh dear, dear forum-friend, you rightly state these warnings:

• “Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day”

I notice you rightly state that Jesus states ‘the words of God we accept or reject …’. Did you not notice that you are saying the words of God are not Jesus’ words - they are GOD’S WORDS?

Yes, it’s true… Jesus said, himself, that:

• “For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.” (John 12:49)

Yes, Jesus spoke what GOD commanded him to say therefore they are not his (Jesus’) words… just as an emissary speaks the words of the king who sent him - the words are not the emissary’s but the king’s words. It would be irreverent for the emissary to claim the words as his own.

Also, Jesus was ‘Commanded’ to speak those words. How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is commanding him?

Oh, and I have answered all the questions you asked.

 

[3rdAngel]

I think you are admitting you realise your error here.

The questions I put to you are quite simple - and for you to say that you do not know what I’m talking about shows that you are being dishonest.

This tactic is something I’ve seen from Trinitarians many times over - it’s a taught way of not answering an explicit question… and then attack the questioner.

Ok, so now you know I’m calling you out, I’ll ask one of those questions again:

What does this verse mean to you and the trinitarian claim that Jesus was the son of God ‘from the beginning’ (that there wasn’t a time when he wasn’t the son of God):

• “In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:5)

Is such a statement (the bolded part) not something that amounts to an Adoption Declaration?

An add-on question from that verse: Who is Jesus Christ, the high priest to? Is the answer not, ‘God’?
(Therefore trinity claims that God I his own high priest!)

You would be thinking incorrectly and wrong. Why ignore the posts and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you (see post # 2183 linked)

 

[3rdAngel]

Oh dear, dear forum-friend, you rightly state these warnings:

• “Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day”

I notice you rightly state that Jesus states ‘the words of God we accept or reject …’. Did you not notice that you are saying the words of God are not Jesus’ words - they are GOD’S WORDS?

Yes, it’s true… Jesus said, himself, that:

• “For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.” (John 12:49)

Yes, Jesus spoke what GOD commanded him to say therefore they are not his (Jesus’) words… just as an emissary speaks the words of the king who sent him - the words are not the emissary’s but the king’s words. It would be irreverent for the emissary to claim the words as his own.

Also, Jesus was ‘Commanded’ to speak those words. How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is commanding him?

Oh, and I have answered all the questions you asked.

Sooo that is a no then? You are not able to address the posts and scriptures that you are responding to that are in disagreement with you (see post # 2183 linked)? Thank you for proving my point. I do like talking to you though Soapy. You do make me smile when I read your posts and share the scriptures with you but I hope only the best for you

 

[3rdAngel]

Ok, so now you know I’m calling you out, I’ll ask one of those questions again: What does this verse mean to you and the trinitarian claim that Jesus was the son of God ‘from the beginning’ (that there wasn’t a time when he wasn’t the son of God):“In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:5) Is such a statement (the bolded part) not something that amounts to an Adoption Declaration?An add-on question from that verse: Who is Jesus Christ, the high priest to? Is the answer not, ‘God’?(Therefore trinity claims that God I his own high priest!)

Please do not be hypocritical dear friend. I have decided to stop responding to your posts in detail because you do not respond to the content of my posts and the scripture in them that are in disagreement with you. This has been pointed out to you many times already throughout this thread bu myself and others even providing evidence of this fact by linking you to lists of linked posts you have not responded to showing posts full of scripture that is in disagreement with you. So your words here are empty as well as untruthful to me. How about we make a deal? Even though you are so far behind in responding to my post content, scriptures that are in disagreement with you and the questions asked of you I am happy to continue answering your questions if you address my post content, scriptures and questions asked of you that are in disagreement with you that you simply choose to ignore? If you agree to do this than I will continue addressing your posts with a detailed scripture response. Do you agree? YES/NO? If not I will not waste my time on you and we will agree to disagree.

Here let me start in good faith just this once more...

1. Jesus is the God of creation as already proven in the scriptures in John 20:28; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:1-2; Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1-42; Peter 1:1 John 8:58; 1 John 5:20; Colossians 2:9 and the oneness of God in plural form *see John 10:30;1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22; Genesis 11:7; Isaiah 6:8.

2. Jesus as God was God who was with God from the beginning (see John 1:1-4). Jesus as God because a man because God loved perishing fallen mankind to save us from our sins and was a part of Gods plan of salvation for all mankind (see John 1:14; John 3:16)

3. When Jesus who was God and was with God was made in the flesh as a man He was born as a man and became the son of man and as a man also became the son of God. Therefore Jesus being God and being born in the flesh makes him both God and the son of man and the son of God because he was born in the flesh to become a man to save mankind (John 1:1-14)

4. Hebrews 5:5 is in reference to the scriptures already provided above and in fact this is already provided in the scripture contexts of Hebrews 1:1-2 and Hebrews 1:8 where God the father calls Jesus the God of creation made flesh to be Gods great high priest for all mankind as the representative of both God and man.
​

Receive God's Word and be blessed dear friend. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear. According to Jesus in John 12:47-48 the words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day. You do err Soapy not knowing the scriptures. This is only sent in love and as a help to for you. Receive God's Words of correction and be blessed.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Please forgive me dear friend but I cannot stop sharing the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. Did you notice that you did not address a single scripture showing why the scriptures you are responding to do not mean what they say? All you posted in response to the scriptures shared with you earlier was you arguing against what the scriptures were saying verbatim in post # 2174 linked. Did you want to have another go this time proving from the scriptures, why the scriptures posted here are not calling Jesus God and have application to plural God (trinity)?

Here you go. Prove to us from the scriptures this time, that these scriptures below are not saying Jesus is God and the God of creation by the Apostles and God is not both plural and individual in meaning?

The Apostles calling Jesus the God of creation...

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

• Titus 2:13 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

• Hebrews 1:1-2 1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2, HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3, WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

• Hebrews 1:8 8 BUT TO THE SON HE (the father) SAYS "YOUR THRONE O GOD (Jesus) IS FOREVER AND EVER, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

• Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS GOD WITH US.

• John 1:1-4 ;14 1, IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2, THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. 3, ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. 4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [14], AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

• 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST

• John 8:58 Jesus said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic)

• 1 John 5:20 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

• Colossians 2:9 “FOR IN CHRIST ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY LIVES IN BODILY FORM."

The God head are three with one mind and purpose...

• John 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

• 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: The FATHER, THE WORD (Jesus see John 1:1-4; 14), and the HOLY SPIRIT; and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

• Matthew 28:19 9, Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST

At creation...

• Genesis 1:26 26 And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

• Genesis 3:22 “Then the Lord God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and also take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.”

• Genesis 11:7 “COME, LET US GO DOWN AND CONFUSE THEIR LANGUAGE so they will not understand each other

• Isaiah 6:8 “Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and WHO WILL GO FOR US?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

Jesus was before creation and the God of creation as shown word for word in the scriptures that disagree with your words that are unsupported by the scriptures (e.g. John 1:1-4; Hebrews 1:1-2,Hebrews 1:8-12 Colossians 1:16 etc). Receive Gods correction and be blessed Soapy. Ignoring Gods' Words does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48), Kind of not going to well for you now is it Soapy? We are best to believe and follow what Gods' Word says not seek to argue with them and try to explain them away which is what you are doing.

Take Care.

Your response here...

The verses do not say that Jesus is God because no one who wrote the scriptures ever thought Jesus was God. It is the trinitarian translators who modified the scriptures in an attempt to claim that they show Jesus is God.

Jesus knew that this would occur and gave a warning that there would be severe punishment for those who carried out such irreverences.

The scriptures also says that there will be many who will believe the lie - and worse, that even kings would indulge in the ‘Whore of Babylon’ - which is the !Holy! Roman Catholic Church - Catholicism and its debauched Trinity teachings.

Where you ask for ‘proof’ that verses do not show Jesus is not God… is simply the ridiculous trick of requesting someone prove a negative: No one thought Jesus was God so no one wrote anything that DISPROVES HE WASN’T God!

The nearest thing is where Jesus is accused of ‘Making himself [into a] God’ by stating that he was ‘The Son of God’. This claim from the Jews was in line with nations like the Egyptians in which the Pharoahs believed themselves to be ‘Gods’ by virtue of being ‘Sons of their Gods’ - a claim we know to be complete nonsense!

You will note from the story that Jesus emphatically denied any such acquaintance, saying, ‘I only said that God was my Father!… and, in fact, even God, himself, called those men of valour in his name who received his word, he called ‘Gods’.

There are no other claims on that level in the whole scriptures and so blowing that out of the water leaves you with nothing of a claim of Jesus ‘being God’ or ‘Being called God’.

That ultra-embarrassment you posted of Thomas calling Jesus ‘My God’ is so farcical that it hurts to know an intelligent man such as yourself using that as a claim.. really, 3rdAngel, you truly amaze me!

Did you notice that all the scriptures in the post you are responding to disagree with every thing you have posted here Soapy? Just saying we are best to believe what the scriptures say rather than seeking to try and explain them away and argue with what God actually says. I hope only the best for you dear friend and pray you will receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Words does not make them disappear.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

That ultra-embarrassment you posted of Thomas calling Jesus ‘My God’ is so farcical that it hurts to know an intelligent man such as yourself using that as a claim.. really, 3rdAngel, you truly amaze me!

That is what the one of many scriptures say word for word, not me Soapy (post # 2183 linked). You are arguing with what the scriptures say not what I say.

• John 20:28 28 Thomas answered him, “MY LORD AND MY GOD!”

John 20:28 is Gods Words not my words. You are arguing against Gods' Words verbatim that are in disagreement with your words that are not Gods Words. Not really a good position to find yourself in Soapy.

Take Care.

 

[samtonga43]

The verses do not say that Jesus is God because no one who wrote the scriptures ever thought Jesus was God. It is the trinitarian translators who modified the scriptures in an attempt to claim that they show Jesus is God. Jesus knew that this would occur and gave a warning that there would be severe punishment for those who carried out such irreverences.

Severe punishment for those who see God as triune?
Scriptural evidence please, Soapy?

The scriptures also says that there will be many who will believe the lie…

What lie? Please provide scriptural evidence for the nature of this lie.

No one thought Jesus was God so no one wrote anything that DISPROVES HE WASN’T God!

The dreaded double negative!
However, there IS no proof that Jesus is God. Is it too difficult for you to understand that, if there were proof, everyone would believe that Jesus is God. No one rational could possibly say, “Oh yes, there is proof of ……………. (fill in the blank) but I still don’t believe it”.
Do you understand?

You will note from the story that Jesus emphatically denied any such acquaintance, saying, ‘I only said that God was my Father!… and, in fact, even God, himself, called those men of valour in his name who received his word, he called ‘Gods’.

Where in Scripture did Jesus say these words, Soapy?
And where did God call men ’Gods’?

 

[samtonga43]

There are no other claims on that level in the whole scriptures and so blowing that out of the water leaves you with nothing of a claim of Jesus ‘being God’ or ‘Being called God’

Nothing? I think not. You continually ignore the following, or blame the translators for the fact that they don't say what YOU want them to say.:
John 1:14: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Colossians 2:9: For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Romans 1:4: And was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
John 17:5: And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
John 10:30: I and the Father are one.”
John 8:58: Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

 

[samtonga43]

That makes no sense. What has Jesus alone is not god have to do with twin personalities… the point is that you say Jesus is man AND he is God at the same time (but it doesn’t matter even if he was either or both at different times)… which can’t explain how he, Jesus, knew all things at one moment and then didn’t know all things in another moment.

Soapy, you will never understand until you are given eyes to see the truth of the Hypostatic Union.

In simplest terms, the hypostatic union is a reference to Jesus Christ as both God and man, fully divine and fully human. Hypostasis is the Greek word for subsistence (think: individual existence). The hypostatic union, therefore, is the technical term for the unipersonality of Christ, whereby in the incarnation the Son of God was constituted a complex person with both a human and a divine nature.

Want to see more? ----
Theological Primer: Hypostatic Union

It also doesn’t explain how he was anointed BY GOD when you say he WAS GOD… not how he died when God cannot die…!!!

Theological Primer: Hypostatic Union

And isn’t it a strange thing that ‘Jesus-God’ preferred to be ruler over a limited flesh-constrained world subject to the laws of physics rather than the greater kingdom that he already ruled over as God!

Theological Primer: Hypostatic Union

Im not surprised you say you won’t answer any more questions from me - Yeah! The embarrassment is too much for you….

As usual, you only see what you want to see. Here is what I actually said:
“When you start answering my questions to you, I will return the favour”.
And you read this as, “I won’t answer any more questions from you”.
This is exactly what you do with Scripture. It’s called The Soapy Translation.

And you think your questions embarrass me?
In your dreams.

 

[Muffled]

Agreed, however the bible is the Word of God that comes from God where we receive Gods' grace, mercy, love and salvation, and shows us what to believe and do in order to follow God and be saved and is the only rule and test of genuine saving faith according to the scriptures.

I believe so but it is the old and older word of God and not the current Word of God.

 

[Muffled]

Your response here...

God does care for all those who believe and follow what His Word says and will never leave and forsake them. God also loves the unbelievers and those who love sin more than God. However the latter will not receive Gods' salvation because they do not believe and follow what Gods' Word says in order to receive His forgiveness of sin. I do not judge you but according to Jesus it is the Words of God we accept of reject that become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48). According to the scriptures we are to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not. (2 Corinthians 13:5). There is also a test to know if we know God and do not know God and that is if we are obedient to Gods' Word and keep His commandments *see 1 John 2:3-4. Gods 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. * see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

I believe the 4th commandment is not where you ae disobeying God. You are disobeying God by not listening to Him. As for me by worshipping on Sunday I am obeying the 4th commandment.

 

[Muffled]

Eeek seems someone does not like this thread because it tells the truth

I believe the truth is Jesus not 3rdAngel.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe so but it is the old and older word of God and not the current Word of God.

Not sure what you are talking about here. How can the bible not be the current Word of God?

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe the 4th commandment is not where you ae disobeying God. You are disobeying God by not listening to Him. As for me by worshipping on Sunday I am obeying the 4th commandment.

According to the scriptures we do not listen to God when we do not believe and follow what Gods Word says (see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21-23; James 2:13-26). If God therefore asks us to do something in His Word and we do not do it than that is what it means not to listen to God which is sin according to the scriptures (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4; Hebrews 10:26-31)

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe the truth is Jesus not 3rdAngel.

Jesus is the living Word of God according to the scriptures (see John 1:1-4; 14) who has given us His recorded spoken Words of God in the scriptures of the bible. According to James in James 2:13-26 the devils also believe but they do not do what Gods Word says and will not enter into Gods Kingdom. Also the bibles definition of truth is the Word of God in John 17:17. How then can you claim to believe Jesus if you do not believe and follow what His Word says and if I tell you the truth and share scripture with you which are Gods Words not mine why do you not believe them?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How then can you claim to believe Jesus if you do not believe and follow what His Word says and if I tell you the truth and share scripture with you which are Gods Words not mine why do you not believe them?

1. Not every Christian is a literalist, or believes the Bible is without error. You are a fundamentalist, which is fine, but you shouldn't say that only fellow fundamentalists are Chrsitians. It's just not true.

2. Not every Chrsitian shares your interpretation of scripture. And before you say, "This is not an interpretation, this is what the Bible says," let me say that there is not such thing as reading the Bible without interpreting it.