"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

The fact that the Sabbath was originally for the Jews is discussed in Exodus 20, where he tells them to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath He instructed them on at Exodus 16.

There is no truth in this statement whatsoever. According to the scriptures Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for all mankind. You did not think your argument through again. When God made the Sabbath for all mankind there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses. There was only Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind who were created sinless on the sixth day of the creation week. I guess you did not think your argument through here again did you. Looks like the scriptures are in disagreement with you again.

This is further explained at Deuteronomy 16, which tells that he "but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do. Note that keeping the Sabbath meant keeping foreigners within your gates from working the Sabbath, something many Adventists simply don't do. If you own property, and you live in a two, or 3 family home, then any person living within that property is prohibited from working because they are "within your gates". This would extend to remote properties as well, as they are your gates and not the gates of your tenant or guests.

I would not know who is keeping the Sabbath and who is not. If you know how to keep the Sabbath and do not keep the Sabbath what excuse to you have to break it and sin against God? None I would imagine. Does this not worry you? It should.

DO YOU KEEP THE SABBATH? A NO answer means they don't get the apartment. A YES answer means they do. Any objection is "religious persecution" and only enforceable by COURT ORDER. Only then could I smugly claim to be "keeping the Sabbath". Anything less is on me, a testament to my own hypocrisy. I suspect, however wrongly, that you fall woefully short on keeping the 4th Commandment. I have no intension of placing myself in a similar spiritual quagmire where I can stand like a Pharisee, claiming to do one thing while I keep doing another. It was an attractive indulgence for the Pharisees (Luke 18: 10-14), and might be for Adventists, but it's just not me. Instead I am perfectly content enjoying my freedom in Christ. This is not to boast but to convey the personal satisfaction one derives when they place their full trust in Christ rather than the Law. If at judgment, my accuser denounces me for placing "too much faith in Christ, and not enough in the Law" I am fine with that.

Sounds like you are putting your self in the same quagmire where one can stand like a Pharisee, claiming to do one thing while I keep doing another. If you know how to keep the Sabbath what excuse do you now have for not keeping the Sabbath? Romans 2:1 "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are that judge: for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things." Matthew 7:1-2 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. That does not sound to good for you there according to the scriptures.

Also, as explained in Deuteronomy 5:15, it states Israel was to keep the Sabbath because He led them out of Egypt with a strong hand. I mentioned this biblical fact and I believe you called it "stupid".

No not really. You were shown in the commandment spoken by God that the reason for the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:11 was because in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it a holy day. This is a reference back to the seventh day of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3 where God rested on the seventh day of the week and blessed the Sabbath day and made it a holy day of rest for all mankind (see also Mark 2:27). Deuteronomy 5 is Moses reading from the book of the law reminding the children of Israel to keep the Sabbath because they were slaves in Egypt and did not keep Gods Sabbath. That is not Gods reason for making and giving the Sabbath for all mankind. You do certainly have a knack of twisting scripture to try to support your teachings of lawlessness.

I understand this reading goes against what your prophetess proclaims, but scripture is scripture 3rdAngel, and I don't believe God's explanation is stupid, but instructive.

Agreed scripture is not stupid. Your teachings of lawlessness however are not scripture. You have been posted scripture which is Gods Word that are in disagreement with your words that are not supported by the scriptures. Does this not worry you? It should because according to the scriptures only Gods Word are true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead people away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God. According to 1 John 2:3-4 those who do these things are liars and the truth is not in them. Does this not worry you? It should.

We ignore scripture at our own peril. Either God is inconsistent, claiming our Sabbath is because He led us out of Egypt in one breath, while claiming it was because He rested on the 7th Day in another, or we reconcile all scripture, realizing God is not stating mankind's Sabbath began at creation, but began during the Exodus of Jews from Egypt.

Then do not ignore scripture at your own peril and continue in your sins of unbelief and breaking Gods commandments. These are the very definition of what sin is in James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4 ; Romans 14:23; John 3:36. God is indeed consistent but not in your interpretation of the scriptures leading to into teachings of lawlessness. As posted above, and elsewhere, You were shown in the commandment spoken by God that the reason for the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:11 was because in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it a holy day. This is a reference back to the seventh day of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3 where God rested on the seventh day of the week and blessed the Sabbath day and made it a holy day of rest for all mankind (see also Mark 2:27). Deuteronomy 5 is Moses reading from the book of the law reminding the children of Israel to keep the Sabbath because they were slaves in Egypt and did not keep Gods Sabbath. That is not Gods reason for making and giving the Sabbath for all mankind. You do certainly have a knack of twisting scripture to try to support your teachings of lawlessness.

Certainly if mankind's Sabbath rest had began at creation, it would not have come as new knowledge to the Jews at Exodus 16. Even if the Jews had forgotten, I'm sure the Egyptians or some other foreigner would have reminded them.

Why not? The Israelite's in Egypt were slaves to the Egyptians. The majority were not keeping the Sabbath.

This is easily explained. The vast majority of people on this planet are not Jews, so there is no need for them to keep a Sabbath. Also, ISRAEL IS ALWAYS ISRAEL. You prophetess, Ellen White, lived at a time prior to the establishment of the Jewish state. This led her to envision a world where 7th Day Adventists because "spiritual Jews" and claim her fellow Christians would "persecute" the Adventist church. Her vision was not God's plan however, as seen by the rise of the Jewish state in 1948. Most Christians today reject her "replacement theology" however some post Millerite religions, like Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses, still subscribe to it.

Nonsense, as shown through the scriptures that are in disagreement with you, according to the scriptures Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for all mankind. You did not think your argument through again. When God made the Sabbath for all mankind there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses and no sin. There was only sinless Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind who were created sinless on the sixth day of the creation week. I guess you did not think your argument through here again did you. Looks like the scriptures are in disagreement with you again.

This is too funny 3rd Angel. Look, the 4th Commandment is NOT repeated in the New Testament, except as a command for those under the Law, and we are under Christ, not the Law.

Yes I agree this is too funny for you and why I posted earlier I love talking to you even if I do not believe you. I love sharing the scriptures with you that prove why your teachings of lawlessness is not biblical. I know you do not believe these scriptures but I believe others will find them helpful who will be blessed and receive Gods Word even if you choose not to.

ALL OF GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

1 You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
2 You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today - Matthew 24:20; Hebrews 4:9; Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8-12(Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10)
5 Honour your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
6 You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
7 You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
8 You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
9 You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
10 You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

I enjoy our discussion. Seems like Gods Word is in disagreement with you though. Does this not worry you? It should. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness. This is the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4).

You take Care now.

 

[2ndpillar]

Then there is no problem.

Mary did not arrive by herself, as she had either 2 or 3 witnesses with her and an empty tomb.

And while you don't believe Paul, at least believe Matthew, and others who write by the grace of the Holy Spirit.






Your post sound like something taken directly from the writings of Herbert Armstrong. Are you a disciple from Armstrong? From and Adventist offshoot? Church of God maybe?

Doesn't matter. The point is, scripture does "jive", but it's already 3:50 in the morning, and while I find these topics enjoyable, it's very late, especially for me.

Here is my response:

If you have a bible which doesn't jive, then I would suggest a new bible, or a new understanding of what it is you have read.

As for the topic at hand, I can easily go the NKJV and see how the biblical account is put together:

(MAR. 16: 1) Now when the Sabbath was past...​

(MAR. 16: 2) Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week...​

(LUK. 24: 1) Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning...​

(JOH. 20: 1) Now the first day of the week...​

(MAT. 28: 1) Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn..​

This all seems to jive very well.

As mentioned before, your observations and conclusions seem to be based on the writing of Herbert Armstrong. I may be incorrect on this, but that's what it look like to me. It would certainly explain the disagreements you have with @3rdAngle, even though you are both Sabbatarians.

Armstrong was leader of the breakaway Church of God, proclaiming:

The prophesies and mysteries of God, sealed until now, are today revealed to those whom God has chosen to carry his last message to the world as a witness

So, if I am correct, we know who the "messenger" you previously mentioned was: Herbert Armstrong.

He also claims that his Worldwide Church of God was God's only true church while all others are counterfeits. Hmmm... where have we heard that before?

Of course! From Jehovah Witnesses, British Israelism, and Mormonism.

In any event, the vast majority from "Church of God" have repented and are now considered mainstream Protestants, but there are still some Church's who hold fast to Armstrong's false teachings.



Sorry, but I'm not a "King James only" Christian, and I find some NASB's read differently:

NASB 1995​

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.​

​

NASB 1977​

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.​

​

As for the actual text at Matthew 28:1, Οψε δε σαββατων, I would suggest brushing up on the word "sabbaton" in a way that harmonizes, and not disagrees, with the written text of other New Testament authors.

So, from my perspective, you appear to harmonize scripture in accordance with Armstrong, while my other Sabbatarian friends harmonize in accordance with Ellen White, each to poor avail.

Have a good morning everyone! I'll get back to this as quickly as I can.

Your NKJB is the "many" trying to rewrite the KJB in order to clean up their narrative. The newer New American Standard Bibles are also the "many" of Matthew 7:12 trying to clean up their narrative. As for Easter, it was an effort at the time of the Roman emperor convened Nicene Council in 325 A.D. to separate the new Roman church traditions from the Jewish tradition of keeping the Passover day of Preparation on the 14th of Nissan, to the feast of the pagan goddess of Astarte, the pagan spring festival. Mary Magdalen didn't write Matthew 28:1, nor did her female friends. Just because the bishop Athanasius presents a NT canon on this new Easter festival in 367 A.D. as the contents of his canon being holy, does not make it so. Athanasius was obviously not holy, nor was his canon. As for the "message" of Yeshua, the wheat seed, versus the tare seed, the tare seed, the message of the "devil" (Mt 13:37-39), the tare seed would be planted next to the good seed, planted by the "son of man", in the same field/book (NT), and the "tares"/Christian believers in the "message of the devil", would be protected until the "end of the age", which we are now in (Matthew 13:27-30), at which time the tares would be "gathered" "first", and thrown into the "furnace of fire"/great tribulation. As for my background, I was raised in a Catholic family, went to a Catholic school with nuns, and therefore was exposed to the ludicrous traditions of the mother Catholic church, which at the time (1950s), taught that all non-Catholics went to hell. They even taught that if a Catholic didn't go to Sunday Easter services, that Catholic would go to hell. Like mother like daughter, your Protestant churches are no better than the mother church. The say they don't worship idols like the mother church, such as pray to idols of gold, silver, wood, stone, etc., but almost every protestant church has a pagan cross, which they either wear or worship, as a part of their "salvation", which according to the "Word", Jeremiah 31:30, is a lie, for they will all die for their iniquities. The message of Yeshua is the "kingdom", whereas the "son of man" returns (Mt 24:29-30) "immediately after the tribulation", and sets up the millennium kingdom (Revelation 20:4) and the "message" of the "devil"/"serpent", is that if you believe in my message, you can eat the apple, disobey God, and live forever (Genesis 3:4).

 

[3rdAngel]

Okay, let's read Genesis 2:1-3 in context, once again:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.​

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.​

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.​

​

This tells me GOD rested on the 7th Day. It does not tell me anything at all about MAN resting on the 7th Day.

Hope you did not mind me posting a response to your post here. I know you posted this to @AdamjEdgar but I also noticed you did not get a response. I just highlighted all the parts you missed and did not notice in your post so it might be a help for you. Note from the scriptures above and the parts highlighted in red you missed out on..

FROM THE GENESIS 2:1-3

1. God finished making the Heavens and the earth (Genesis 2:1)
2. On the seventh day God has finished His work of creation and rested (Genesis 2:2)
3. God BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY
4. God MADE THE SEVENTH SAY A HOLY DAY OF REST.

Now did who did God bless the seventh day of the week (Sabbath) for?
Who did God make the seventh day of the week a holy day for?

God did not bless the seventh day of the creation week for himself because he was already resting on the seventh day of the week (man being created on the 6th day of the creation week) and neither did he make the seventh day a holy day for himself because God is already holy right? God blessed the seventh day of the week and made it a holy day setting it apart from every other day of the week for Adam and Eve.

This is confirmed in the words of Jesus here in...

MARK 2:27 THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN....

Note the Greek word for "MAN" here is the Greek word G444 ἄνθρωπος its meaning is Human beings. Jesus did not use the Greek word G2453 Ἰουδαῖος meaning Jews. So according to Jesus God made the Sabbath of Genesis 2:1 for human beings. Also please take note that on the seventh day of the creation week when God made the Sabbath for mankind there was no Jews, no Israel, no Moses, and no law and no sin. There was only Adam and Eve who were both created on the 6th day of the creation week (Genesis 1:26-31). Therefore God blessed the seventh day Sabbath and made the seventh day Sabbath a holy day for Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind as a memorial of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth.

That is to be expected, since man was ALREADY at rest in God, just as we now rest in Christ. Remember, Man was created on the SIXTH Day, and he wasn't created in a state of unrest. In fact, God found that His creation was "good", and I don't think unrest with God is "good".

According to the scripture sin is what causes unrest (Isaiah 57:20). Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law or breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says (see James 2:10-11 compare 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 and Romans 14:23; John 3:36). Therefore no one can claim to have rest in Christ if they are sinning against God and breaking Gods commandments and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says. This is literally the bibles definition of what sin is and is the condition of someone that is not in a saved state before God but is someone who is standing before God guilty of sin and death and if they do not repent of their sins confessing them to God and seeking His forgiveness will be lost in their sins (see Romans 3:19-20; Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:13-23). Gods Sabbath commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken just like lying and stealing. According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and death (Romans 3:20).

Show us a mankind that was created in a state of unrest and you will have a valid argument. Anything short of this is simply adding something that isn't there. So God rested from His works on the 7th Day. This foreshadows the Jewish Sabbath. It's not the "start" of the Jewish Sabbath, nor the "starting point" of mankind's Sabbath. Mankind's rest started at the point of our creation on the SIXTH day, and not the SEVENTH. God continued working until the SEVENTH day when HE rested, as man was ALREADY resting in God. This rest on the SEVENTH day was for mankind FUTURE and NOT mankind CURRENT as mankind CURRENT was at that time "very good". Mankind's rest in God DID NOT END until he thought to bite from the fruit. I appreciate the citations @AdamEdgar, and they are well received, especially on a forum like this, but I think Adventists tend to embed a little doctrine with their reading of Genesis.

This section of your post here simply makes no sense because what you have not realized is that there was no sin and no law when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. This actually works against all your arguments. Do you understand why? You claim that the Sabbath was a shadow law. There were no shadow laws before sin and law. Adam and Eve were sinless when God made the Sabbath. Therefore it is impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow of anything at all because there was no sin and nothing that it was to be a shadow for. You would only have a valid argument here if God made the Sabbath after mankind had sinned against God and after God has given us His laws of good and evil and atonement. Therefore before God made the Sabbath before mankind sinned it is impossible for the creation Sabbath to be a shadow of anything. Furthermore, as already proven through the scriptures there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses, no law and no sin when God made the Sabbath for mankind. Only Adam and Even the parents of all mankind who were created on the 6th day of the creation week (see Genesis 1:26-31).

Now what has been posted now from the scriptures us indiputable evidence that your post claims that the Sabbath is a shadow law is a falsehood because there was no sin and there was no law. However to put one more nail in your arguments coffin (un needed) to give you no wiggle room. Look at Gods Sabbath commandment where it is placed as one of Gods 10 commandments which are Gods eternal standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172). Exodus 20:8-11 " 8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (referring to Genesis 2:1-3). Are you paying attention? "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY" (referring to Geneis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.) A Shadow law is something pointing to something to come in the future but look at the commandment. "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY". Note the Sabbath commandment is pointing BACKWARDS not FORWARDS to things to come. Gods Sabbath commandment is pointing back to creation and Genesis 2:1-3 where God blessed the seventh day of the week for all mankind and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest! Gods Sabbath commandment "REMEMBER" therefore is a memorial of creation not a shadow of something to come.

Your argument has been completely dead and buried. Receive Gods word and be blessed. If you continue in your sins and choose not to believe and obey Gods Word you will die in your sins according to the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; Matthew 7:13-23. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we choose to accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48).

Take Care I believe you have something to reflect on here.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Okay, let's read Genesis 2:1-3 in context, once again:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.This tells me GOD rested on the 7th Day. It does not tell me anything at all about MAN resting on the 7th Day.

That is to be expected, since man was ALREADY at rest in God, just as we now rest in Christ. Remember, Man was created on the SIXTH Day, and he wasn't created in a state of unrest. In fact, God found that His creation was "good", and I don't think unrest with God is "good".

Show us a mankind that was created in a state of unrest and you will have a valid argument. Anything short of this is simply adding something that isn't there.

So God rested from His works on the 7th Day. This foreshadows the Jewish Sabbath. It's not the "start" of the Jewish Sabbath, nor the "starting point" of mankind's Sabbath.

Mankind's rest started at the point of our creation on the SIXTH day, and not the SEVENTH. God continued working until the SEVENTH day when HE rested, as man was ALREADY resting in God. This rest on the SEVENTH day was for mankind FUTURE and NOT mankind CURRENT as mankind CURRENT was at that time "very good".

Mankind's rest in God DID NOT END until he thought to bite from the fruit.

I appreciate the citations @AdamEdgar, and they are well received, especially on a forum like this, but I think Adventists tend to embed a little doctrine with their reading of Genesis.

You need to read Hebrews 4 again...you didnt read it otherwise you wouldnt have made the above comment. From Hebrews it is very clear that the Sabbath rest is for the benefit of mankind. God also says that we must enter into that rest and He goes further...its also tied to salvation.

Hebrews 4

1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.a

3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said: “So I swore on oath in My anger, They shall never enter My rest.’ ”b And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.”c 5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.”

Again, note the definition of Saints in Revelation 14:12

here are those who keep the commandments of God...

BTW, i find it a bit stupid to make the claim Adventists are presupposing doctrine...how do you think they came up with theological answers in the first place to questions such as this? Obviously they quote a massive number of bible verses and concordance cross references...the Sabbath doctrine isnt Adventist.

Also, a little history...originally the SDA founders did not believe in the Sabbath, the doctrine actually came from a Seventh Day Baptist (perhaps you didnt know this?)

 

[3rdAngel]

You need to read Hebrews 4 again...you didnt read it otherwise you wouldnt have made the above comment. From Hebrews it is very clear that the Sabbath rest is for the benefit of mankind. God also says that we must enter into that rest and He goes further...its also tied to salvation.

Hebrews 4

1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.a

3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said: “So I swore on oath in My anger, They shall never enter My rest.’ ”b And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.”c 5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.”

Again, note the definition of Saints in Revelation 14:12

here are those who keep the commandments of God...

BTW, i find it a bit stupid to make the claim Adventists are presupposing doctrine...how do you think they came up with theological answers in the first place to questions such as this? Obviously they quote a massive number of bible verses and concordance cross references...the Sabbath doctrine isnt Adventist.

Also, a little history...originally the SDA founders did not believe in the Sabbath, the doctrine actually came from a Seventh Day Baptist (perhaps you didnt know this?)

Thanks this is very helpful

 

[3rdAngel]

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23
The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.
According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.
Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?
• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).
God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.
............................
Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

 

[Soapy]

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23
The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.
According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.
Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?
• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).
God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.
............................
Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

If there are seven days in a week then the work is done on six of the first days and then rest on the seventh.

No one RESTS first THEN does his work!!
First, WORK, then REST.

How is the FIRST day of the week the day of REST!!

The fallacy comes from the fact that SUNDAY is a ROMAN day of rest and worship of their God, ‘Sun’. This day coincided with the JEWISH first day of the week - the day after the Jewish SABBATH…

The Romans forced the Jews to integrate the Jewish day of worship in with the Roman day of worship (Just as the Romans forced integration of the celebration of the birth of Jesus into Saturnalia, the Roman worship of the new year and called it ‘Christmas’!).

Do you see how then the FIRST day of the week came to be the day of Jewish of worship of YHWH? Why else do traditional Jews still hold Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday evening.

The more important question, though, is:

• ‘Is the Sabbath day relevant at all today; or is it simply important to have A DAY OF REST in which to DO GOOD and WORSHIP YHWH whichever day in the week it is. Afterall, in these times, it’s impossible that ALL PEOPLES OF BELIEF should have the SAME DAY (effectively, Saturday) OFF FROM WORK!!

 

[Kenny]

Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hey Kenny nice to see you. Scripture context is your friend here and it does not agree with you.

Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath

Take Care

 

[IndigoChild5559]

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

And where in Rev 1:10 does it say anything about "the Lord's Day" being Saturday or the Shabbat? It doesn't.

As you have been told MANY times, the Bible never says which day of the week is "the Lord's Day." But other first century Christain writings indicate that it is Sunday, the day Jesus is reputed to have risen from the dead.

 

[Kenny]

Hey Kenny nice to see you. Scripture context is your friend here and it does not agree with you.

Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath

Take Care

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

May God open your eyes.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hey Kenny nice to see you. Scripture context is your friend here and it does not agree with you.

Hebrews 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath

Take Care

I am not opposed to you resting on the Shabbat if you choose. But I think it is voluntary on your part, not due to obligation.

The Christians I have spoken to point out that Hebrews was an epistle written for JEWISH believers, and that the suggestion to keep the Sabbath refers only to them, not to Gentile believers. But of course you will interpret it as you please

 

[Kenny]

I am not opposed to you resting on the Shabbat if you choose. But I think it is voluntary on your part, not due to obligation.

The Christians I have spoken to point out that Hebrews was an epistle written for JEWISH believers, and that the suggestion to keep the Sabbath refers only to them, not to Gentile believers. But of course you will interpret it as you please

I’m just enjoying the eternal rest of faith.

For me, every day is a Shabbat or, if you will, I’m resting in my eternal year of Jubilee.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I’m just enjoying the eternal rest of faith.

For me, every day is a Shabbat or, if you will, I’m resting in my eternal year of Jubilee.

Kenny, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, and I'm glad you have a meaningful faith. But the whole definition of Shabbat is that it is the resting from labor on the seventh day. Anything other than that is not REALLY the shabbat. And when you make all days the same, really none are special.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, and I'm glad you have a meaningful faith. But the whole definition of Shabbat is that it is the resting from labor on the seventh day. Anything other than that is not REALLY the shabbat. And when you make all days the same, really none are special.

Thank you, and I agree. Please forgive my overarching liberty that I took.

There is the day Sabbath, the seventh day where men ceased from work.
Then there is the rest of the land every 7th year where agriculturist took a year of rest and simply lived off of the fruit that the land gave.
The rest that I am talking about is the year of Jubilee, where all debts are paid for, the land rested, people rested and it was a year of jubilee.

Do I have that correct?

 

[3rdAngel]

And where in Rev 1:10 does it say anything about "the Lord's Day" being Saturday or the Shabbat? It doesn't. As you have been told MANY times, the Bible never says which day of the week is "the Lord's Day." But other first century Christain writings indicate that it is Sunday, the day Jesus is reputed to have risen from the dead.

The answer to your question is given in the rest of the bible you refuse to believe as already shown in the scriptures you choose to ignore. As shown in the scriptures earlier, The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23
The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.
Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?
• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.
............................
Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

 

[3rdAngel]

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

May God open your eyes.

Context Kenny context..... you keep disregarding it to promote sin (1 John 3:4)

HEBREWS 4:1-9
[1], LET US THEREFORE FEAR, LEST, A PROMISE BEING LEFT US OF ENTERING INTO HIS REST, ANY OF YOU SHOULD SEEM TO COME SHORT OF IT.
[2], FOR TO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS TO THEM: BUT THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT.
[3], For WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

[9] THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Bother Hebrews 3:7-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 are a warning against breaking the Sabbath and not believing and obeying what Gods Word says and says no one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says.

Take Care and remember context Kenny.

 

[3rdAngel]

I am not opposed to you resting on the Shabbat if you choose. But I think it is voluntary on your part, not due to obligation. The Christians I have spoken to point out that Hebrews was an epistle written for JEWISH believers, and that the suggestion to keep the Sabbath refers only to them, not to Gentile believers. But of course you will interpret it as you please

According to the scriptures breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is the very definition of what sin is. If you break anyone of Gods 10 commandments according to James in James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. Those who continue practicing known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures will be in danger of the judgement to come according to the scriptures (see Acts 17:30-31 and compare Hebrews 10:26-31. As posted earlier in another OP,
According to the scriptures, which are the only definition of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4; John 17:17) 'Israel' "born after the flesh of the seed of Abraham", as an unbelieving 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire. The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel”. According to the new covenant scriptures, Gods true Israel are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 3:28-29) but are now all those who are born again of the Spirit of God through faith (see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10 and Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4) into Gods new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Therefore, Gods Israel according to the scriptures in the new covenant are now all those who through faith believe and follow what Gods Word says and all believers both Jews and gentiles are all now one in Christ (Romans 10:11-13; Colossians 3:11) through faith in Gods Word. Gentile believers have been grafted in with Jewish believers (Romans 11:13-27). According to the scriptures, if we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. God never made His new covenant with Gentiles (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) but with believers regardless of their heritage. Our words do not mean much in Gods eyes. Only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them and you have only provided your words that are in disagreement with Gods because you are still waiting for a Messiah that has already come.

Take Care

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you, and I agree. Please forgive my overarching liberty that I took.

There is the day Sabbath, the seventh day where men ceased from work.
Then there is the rest of the land every 7th year where agriculturist took a year of rest and simply lived off of the fruit that the land gave.
The rest that I am talking about is the year of Jubilee, where all debts are paid for, the land rested, people rested and it was a year of jubilee.

Do I have that correct?

Yes, you are absolutely correct. And slaves were freed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The answer to your question is given in the rest of the bible

No its not. There is NO other place in the bible where specifically the "Lord's Day" is mentioned. I don't even bother to read your posts on this anymore, because all you do is quote verses that have nothing to do with the "Lord's Day."