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The Mahdi in the Quran.

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My thought about all this, is how the Quran corrects Christian doctrines and yet no Christian will see Muhammad, or the Quran, has any authority to do so.

This pattern is repeated with each of God's Messengers, history proves this so and history would suggest the same thing will happen with the Mahdi, despite how clear Muslims may think they know the Book.

I understand your sentiment. God's way stays the same, just for me, I see that the message of Mohammad and his successors, and the recitation from God revealed to Mohammad, is meant to take on a universal stage. Sending more Prophets might seem like a mercy, but it may not be in this regard. From what I understand, the protection of Quran made interpretation somewhat open to worse possibilities, to allow Satan and his forces, to misuse the book. If it was overly explicit, the Quran would be tampered with as many revelations in the past were distorted.

So the solution this time, instead of revealing another revelation and disputing the details and trying to rebuild a community over that revelation, over and over again, due to the Quran and it's perpetual outreach nature for all times, it's about interpretation. Ali's fight was about interpretation. Our fight is still about interpretation. So the solution this time... It has to be about interpretation. Avoid all the hardship that comes with revelation and keeping the book and the hard darkness for the successors to defeat, but rather, keep the Quran as is, final revelation, protected, but bring about the Mahdi with miracles and signs and emphasize on the true interpretation. If you see the family of Mohammad in Quran, you will see, this task is not easy yet not hard. It's easy and as hard as we want to be. The Family of Mohammad can become vividly clear in Quran if we reflect and break the sorcery. In doing so, the Mahdi and his followers will free us all from Satanic influence once and for all.

The Mahdi according to many hadiths will face greater difficulty than Mohammad, because, people will yes think they know the Quran better then him. So I understand your sentiment.

We just understand God's plan differently. You see usefulness in making a whole new covenant and bringing a new revelation.

I see it per Quran, things have changed but God's way doesn't, but is coming to a universal application to the world through Mahdi and t's about interpretation this time. And this part of the reason it was built over 23 years and part of the reason Quran of Ali had every time stamp of when a verse was revealed and where and in which circumstance and context!
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I see now what you mean.
You are saying that since, according to the Hadithes there must always be an Imam for people, then, where is the Imam for Bahais?

In our view, This Hadith means, that God does not leave humanity without guidance. So, whenever humanity needs a new guidance, God will raise an Imam (guide) for them.
Similar to Islam. After the 11th Imam passed in the year 260AH, for a long time there was no Imam among people. It is because, the guidance of the Quran and hadithes, were sufficient for guiding Muslims. God would raise the Imam among people only, when, the Muslims have corrupted and misinterpreted the Quran, and the Mosques are full of Muslims, but there is no guidance in them, as religious leaders become corrupted. It is only when the Religion of God becomes corrupted, and people invent their own interpretations, then God will manifest the Imam. For Bahais is the same. We are told, once the Religion of God needs to be renewed, God will make next guidance (Imam) manifest for humanity.

I will respond to this later in more detail. The verse of 17:71 also goes with the verses there is a witness from every people. Then there is a verse in Suratal Qaf that says every soul will be called with a driver and a witness. The driver is the leader, the witness is the leader. No soul is without one.

I think there is a disconnect, because Bahais don't believe in the day of judgment literally like Muslims. They believe instead it refers to Baha'allah appearance. While I see this verse clearly in terms of the day of judgment and that the verse means the Imam saw our deeds.

In fact, there are no two Angels writting our deeds, this a misinterpretation, it's rather the two witnesses are the Imam of our time and the other that watches us and is the other Qareen (close to us) is from Iblis forces.

These are the two Qareens talked about in Suratal Qaaf, and the two watchers, one from God the other from Iblis.

The hadiths that support this interpretation are many, and the verses that talk about witnesses seeing our deeds are many and testifying against on the day of judgment are many.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
So the solution this time, instead of revealing another revelation and disputing the details and trying to rebuild a community over that revelation, over and over again, due to the Quran and it's perpetual outreach nature for all times, it's about interpretation. Ali's fight was about interpretation. Our fight is still about interpretation. So the solution this time... It has to be about interpretation.

Has that now then not all been removed by the Message of Baha'u'llah? An Interpretation of all scripture that proves with no doubt that the Foundation of all true faith, is that of Allah.

There is onlt One God and all the Messengers are from God and all the Messages are the Quran.

We can not forget Biblical prophecy as well. A day when all Truth is released.

Off right now, peace be with you, Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Has that now then not all been removed by the Message of Baha'u'llah? An Interpretation of all scripture that proves with no doubt that the Foundation of all true faith, is that of Allah.

I think anyone can say good flowery words. Like a kid, can make a speech, that if the whole world did obey that speech, the world would be a much a better place or even perhaps perfect.

A message that if obeyed is a solution, doesn't prove it to be the solution. This is something most people don't realize about religions. Any religion if everyone agrees on one interpretation and one religion, would create unity.

This doesn't actually bring us to agreeing on that message. Like I said, the plan, from my understanding of Quran, is to unravel the majestic wonders of Quran and how they compliment Ahlulbayt and the legacy they left, and miracles, there will need to be many miracles this time!

I hope you try to see from my perspective, why, this time, not revealing more revelations makes more sense. Actually, you have to get familiar with Quran and Ahlulbayt hadiths in this regard, to know exactly what I mean!
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I think anyone can say good flowery words. Like a kid, can make a speech, that if the whole world did obey that speech, the world would be a much a better place or even perhaps perfect.

A message that if obeyed is a solution, doesn't prove it to be the solution. This is something most people don't realize about religions. Any religion if everyone agrees on one interpretation and one religion, would create unity.

This doesn't actually bring us to agreeing on that message. Like I said, the plan, from my understanding of Quran, is to unravel the majestic wonders of Quran and how they compliment Ahlulbayt and the legacy they left, and miracles, there will need to be many miracles this time!

I hope you try to see from my perspective, why, this time, not revealing more revelations makes more sense. Actually, you have to get familiar with Quran and Ahlulbayt hadiths in this regard, to know exactly what I mean!

I am getting ready to do a presentation, just waiting for the students :D

Yes I see it from your current frame of reference, you see there is no Book after the Quran and no more Messengers.

Should I then also heed the advice of all other Faiths, that their Messenger is the Last, that their Book is the final Word of Allah? That of course would mean I reject many of Allahs Messengers.

I think it may be a lot easier than we think to determine what are the Words of Allah and what are not the Words of Allah.

All good Is from Allah all else is from our own selves. Thus we look for the light of Allah, no matter where it shines from.

The miracles are all around us, the Messages of the Bab and Baha'u'llah are permeating the minds of men. A global conciousness is becoming part of our collective mind, many people turning away from faith, that are bewildered where to look are finding peace in our oneness.

So I would offer as you have, if you choose to see what Baha'u'llah is saying, then you may see what I am saying.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I see it per Quran, things have changed but God's way doesn't, but is coming to a universal application to the world through Mahdi and t's about interpretation this time. And this part of the reason it was built over 23 years and part of the reason Quran of Ali had every time stamp of when a verse was revealed and where and in which circumstance and context!

I see the greatest quandary in all Faiths, is that the very statements of Faith we make, can in themselves become contradictory of the very idea we are presenting.

If we believe Gods ways do not change, then we are in full agreement with what both the Quran and the Baha'i Writings offer. If we then offer that God will give no more Revelations, or Prophets, or Messengers, then we are right away saying God's way did change, as history has proven Messengers have not stopped at any time, despite what people claim about that specific faith as being the final Word. As such we have falsified our statement about God.

"...This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures...." Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Mahdi is a Messenger, I've explained why he will bring the Quran of Ali and we can see if with programming and apps, the timing of Quran as it develops can be shown. He isn't a Nabi but is a Messenger. For example, we can see the many versions of Quran that took place till it took full fledge form on a time line, by the Quran of Ali. While the Quran of Ali could've easily been distorted in the past, if Imam Mahdi comes today, and there is an app for it, or website, it can show how it was built dynamically with the Sunnah.

The Quran of Ali is an important document that humanity has to see. If you don't know @Tony Bristow-Stagg , it was presented to the first Caliph but they rejected. Part of it was because it unveiled who were the hypocrites in Suratal Baqara haha, who it was revealed regarding for per some hadiths we have in Kitab Sulaim ibn Qais.

This is what our hadiths talk about as well, the Quran of Ali is something Imam Mahdi will bring back.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I will respond to this later in more detail. The verse of 17:71 also goes with the verses there is a witness from every people. Then there is a verse in Suratal Qaf that says every soul will be called with a driver and a witness. The driver is the leader, the witness is the leader. No soul is without one.

I think there is a disconnect, because Bahais don't believe in the day of judgment literally like Muslims. They believe instead it refers to Baha'allah appearance. While I see this verse clearly in terms of the day of judgment and that the verse means the Imam saw our deeds.

In fact, there are no two Angels writting our deeds, this a misinterpretation, it's rather the two witnesses are the Imam of our time and the other that watches us and is the other Qareen (close to us) is from Iblis forces.

These are the two Qareens talked about in Suratal Qaaf, and the two watchers, one from God the other from Iblis.

The hadiths that support this interpretation are many, and the verses that talk about witnesses seeing our deeds are many and testifying against on the day of judgment are many.
Sure, give me a detail response when you want.

For now I comment on the Day of Resurrection being the Day of Rise of Qaim.

Here is a hadith to begin with, but will provide more hadithes later to prove that Day of Resurrection is Day of Rise of Qaim! (And I accept other hadithes as well! So, no worries, it will be a fair discussion. I am not of those who accept only what suits my belief!)

عن جابر عن أبي عبد الله في قول الله تعالى وَاللَّيْلِ إِذا يَغْشى
قال دولة إبليس إلى يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيام القائم
وَالنَّهارِ إِذا تَجَلَّى وهو القائم إذا قام

Hadith: Jabir narrated from Imam Abi Abdullah regarding the verse " By the Night as it conceals, By the Day as it appears in glory"

Imam said, in this verse "Night" refers to reign of Iblis until Day of Resurrection, and that is Day of Rise of Qaim!..and "the Day as it appears.." refers to Qaim when He Rises..

Here Imam clearly says, Day of Resurrection, is the Day of Rise of Qaim.

This is why in Bahai view, What Bahaullah taught, is consistent with Quran.
In our view, God did not want to make this obvious, until Qaim comes. Because Manifestation of Qaim, and believing in Him, is a test for Muslims. Their belief is tested by believing in Qaim, otherwise rejecting Qaim will be just as rejecting any other previous Imams and Prophets. For this reason Allah did not reveal the time of His manifestation and His name, and His exact role as Revealer of a new Book to replace Quranic Laws, so, when Qaim comes, it becomes a challenge for Muslims, and thereby true believers become separated from others who merely just say we believe,, and follow their forefathers.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
The Mahdi is a Messenger, I've explained why he will bring the Quran of Ali and we can see if with programming and apps, the timing of Quran as it develops can be shown. He isn't a Nabi but is a Messenger. For example, we can see the many versions of Quran that took place till it took full fledge form on a time line, by the Quran of Ali. While the Quran of Ali could've easily been distorted in the past, if Imam Mahdi comes today, and there is an app for it, or website, it can show how it was built dynamically with the Sunnah.

The Quran of Ali is an important document that humanity has to see. If you don't know @Tony Bristow-Stagg , it was presented to the first Caliph but they rejected. Part of it was because it unveiled who were the hypocrites in Suratal Baqara haha, who it was revealed regarding for per some hadiths we have in Kitab Sulaim ibn Qais.

This is what our hadiths talk about as well, the Quran of Ali is something Imam Mahdi will bring back.
The idea that there was literally another Quran with Imam Ali, has no basis in Quran. Any Hadith must be compatible with Quran, and must have an evidence from the Quran, otherwise it is absord!

In our view, the Quran that was with Ali, is the same Quran as it is available today.
What is intended by "Quran that was with Ali", is true understanding and correct interpretation of the Quran. That is what Qaim brings. This why in your Hadithes, it is said, when Qaim comes, the Muslims fight with Qaim using Quran. It means, Qaim tells them the true interpretation of Quran, but they fight and insist on their own interpretations. In your Hadithes it is also said, when Qaim comes, Islam is so much changed from its original, that Muslims think He is teaching something else.
We Bahais see, all these already fulfilled. When the Bab came, He started by teaching correct interpretation of the Quran and original Islam. For about 5 years, He only taught Quran, and original Islam of Muhammad. Once people were ready, He revealed a new Book, called Bayan. Thus, In our view He fulfilled the prophecies. He brought the Quran that was with Ali, as well as, the new Book which has new Laws!

Here is the Hadith:

131- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Ibne Uqdah from Muhammad bin Mufaddal from Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Zurarah from Muhammad bin Marwan from Fudhayl bin Yasar that Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said:

“When our Qaim appears, he will receive harms from the ignorant people more and bitterer than that the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) had received from the ignorant people of the pre-Islamic age.” I said: “How is that?” He said: “The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) came to people while they used to worship idols of stone and wood whereas when the Qaim comes to people, they will protest against him by interpreting the Book of Allah according to their fancies. By Allah, he (the Qaim) will insert his justice into their houses like the entering of hot and cold. “

This Hadith has a basis in Quran. You can see from verses of Quran, the Muslims will interprete Quran wistfully! But the idea that there was another Quran with Imam Ali, has no basis form Quran!
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Muhammad bin Hamam and Muhammad bin Hasan bin Muhammad bin Jamhur together from Hasan bin Muhammad bin Jamhur from his father from some of his men from Mufaddal Ibne Umar that he said: Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said:

“One tradition, which you comprehend well, is better than ten you narrate. Verily, every truth has a reality and every veracity has an illumination.” Then he said: “We, by Allah, do not consider a man from our Shia to be a Faqih unless when he is addressed through hints and allusions, he understands them....."


@Link This Hadith tells us, understanding the Hadithes are very difficult. The Imams did not simply speak literally. They were giving hints and allusions!
So, for example when they said the Qaim brings the Quran that was with Ali, we need to think what they really mean by that!


Here is another hadith:

ـ ن : أبي ، عن علي ، عن أبيه ، عن حيون مولى الرضا ، عن الرضا 7 قال : من رد متشابه القرآن إلى محكمه هدي إلى صراط مستقيم ، ثم قال 7 : إن في أخبارنا متشابها كمتشابه القرآن ، ومحكما كمحكم القرآن ، فردوا متشابهها إلى محكمها ، ولا تتبعوا متشابهها دون محكمها فتضلوا

Imam Rida said, One who rejects Mutishabihat of the Quran through its Muhkam, will be guided to the right Path.
He then said: Our Hadithes contains Mutishabihat just as there is Mutishabihat in Quran....thus, you must reject Mutishabihat, through the Muhkam. Do not follow Mutishabihaat.

So, for example, when they say, that Qaim brings the Quran that was with Ali, we must reject such an idea that, there was another Quran, or some parts of Quran which is missing, since Allah clearly says in Muhkammat verses of Quran, that this is the Book has all the details! There is nothing that Allah has not said in this Quran!
 
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TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
The Mahdi is a Messenger, I've explained why he will bring the Quran of Ali and we can see if with programming and apps, the timing of Quran as it develops can be shown. He isn't a Nabi but is a Messenger. For example, we can see the many versions of Quran that took place till it took full fledge form on a time line, by the Quran of Ali. While the Quran of Ali could've easily been distorted in the past, if Imam Mahdi comes today, and there is an app for it, or website, it can show how it was built dynamically with the Sunnah.

The Quran of Ali is an important document that humanity has to see. If you don't know @Tony Bristow-Stagg , it was presented to the first Caliph but they rejected. Part of it was because it unveiled who were the hypocrites in Suratal Baqara haha, who it was revealed regarding for per some hadiths we have in Kitab Sulaim ibn Qais.

This is what our hadiths talk about as well, the Quran of Ali is something Imam Mahdi will bring back.

post # 110 & 111

Thank you, this has been good for me, I am learning a lot from the thread. I personally see it as investiagteTruth has offered. History has shown this always happens.

In the time of Muhammad, the Book was the Quran and see any other mention of a book would be a metaphor of what becomes of the Quran, by mans interpretations.

Consider this is what the Muslim say about the Word of God given by Jesus the Christ. They now accuse the Bible as not being the Word originally given by Christ, or another book, and as such I see they reflect their own actions back upon their own selves.

Just as the Quran explains and makes clear Bible Passages, I also see that the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah make clear the Quran and the Bible.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The idea that there was literally another Quran with Imam Ali, has no basis in Quran. Any Hadith must be compatible with Quran, and must have an evidence from the Quran, otherwise it is absord!

In our view, the Quran that was with Ali, is the same Quran as it is available today.
What is intended by "Quran that was with Ali", is true understanding and correct interpretation of the Quran. That is what Qaim brings. This why in your Hadithes, it is said, when Qaim comes, the Muslims fight with Qaim using Quran. It means, Qaim tells them the true interpretation of Quran, but they fight and insist on their own interpretations. In your Hadithes it is also said, when Qaim comes, Islam is so much changed from its original, that Muslims think He is teaching something else.
We Bahais see, all these already fulfilled. When the Bab came, He started by teaching correct interpretation of the Quran and original Islam. For about 5 years, He only taught Quran, and original Islam of Muhammad. Once people were ready, He revealed a new Book, called Bayan. Thus, In our view He fulfilled the prophecies. He brought the Quran that was with Ali, as well as, the new Book which has new Laws!

Here is the Hadith:

131- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Ibne Uqdah from Muhammad bin Mufaddal from Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Zurarah from Muhammad bin Marwan from Fudhayl bin Yasar that Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said:

“When our Qaim appears, he will receive harms from the ignorant people more and bitterer than that the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) had received from the ignorant people of the pre-Islamic age.” I said: “How is that?” He said: “The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) came to people while they used to worship idols of stone and wood whereas when the Qaim comes to people, they will protest against him by interpreting the Book of Allah according to their fancies. By Allah, he (the Qaim) will insert his justice into their houses like the entering of hot and cold. “

This Hadith has a basis in Quran. You can see from verses of Quran, the Muslims will interprete Quran wistfully! But the idea that there was another Quran with Imam Ali, has no basis form Quran!

What I meant by Quran of Ali, is Quran with commentary of Imam Ali that kept track of when every verse was revealed, it's context, and explanation from God and the Prophet.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sure, give me a detail response when you want.

For now I comment on the Day of Resurrection being the Day of Rise of Qaim.

Here is a hadith to begin with, but will provide more hadithes later to prove that Day of Resurrection is Day of Rise of Qaim! (And I accept other hadithes as well! So, no worries, it will be a fair discussion. I am not of those who accept only what suits my belief!)

عن جابر عن أبي عبد الله في قول الله تعالى وَاللَّيْلِ إِذا يَغْشى
قال دولة إبليس إلى يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيام القائم
وَالنَّهارِ إِذا تَجَلَّى وهو القائم إذا قام

Hadith: Jabir narrated from Imam Abi Abdullah regarding the verse " By the Night as it conceals, By the Day as it appears in glory"

Imam said, in this verse "Night" refers to reign of Iblis until Day of Resurrection, and that is Day of Rise of Qaim!..and "the Day as it appears.." refers to Qaim when He Rises..

Here Imam clearly says, Day of Resurrection, is the Day of Rise of Qaim.

This is why in Bahai view, What Bahaullah taught, is consistent with Quran.
In our view, God did not want to make this obvious, until Qaim comes. Because Manifestation of Qaim, and believing in Him, is a test for Muslims. Their belief is tested by believing in Qaim, otherwise rejecting Qaim will be just as rejecting any other previous Imams and Prophets. For this reason Allah did not reveal the time of His manifestation and His name, and His exact role as Revealer of a new Book to replace Quranic Laws, so, when Qaim comes, it becomes a challenge for Muslims, and thereby true believers become separated from others who merely just say we believe,, and follow their forefathers.

This is well known among Shia scholars, that there is two days of risings talked about in Quran for example, and two hours, and when it talks about days of God, there is the days like Moses overthrows Pharaoh (the days like Ad is destroyed, etc), then there is the Mahdi rising (because it's like Moses' day but on a universal world stage), and then there is the day of judgment (I will bring those hadiths).

This was no secret, it's just Baha'allah made it all talk about day of judgment was all metaphoric. This was too far. There is two hours referred to in Quran. Quran talks about the Mahdi true and talks about that day of rising true, but it doesn't mean there is no day of literal resurrection of humanity, it talks about both.

I will focus on this from Quran and ahadith.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
This is well known among Shia scholars, that there is two days of risings talked about in Quran for example, and two hours, and when it talks about days of God, there is the days like Moses overthrows Pharaoh (the days like Ad is destroyed, etc), then there is the Mahdi rising (because it's like Moses' day but on a universal world stage), and then there is the day of judgment (I will bring those hadiths).

This was no secret, it's just Baha'allah made it all talk about day of judgment was all metaphoric. This was too far. There is two hours referred to in Quran. Quran talks about the Mahdi true and talks about that day of rising true, but it doesn't mean there is no day of literal resurrection of humanity, it talks about both.

I will focus on this from Quran and ahadith.

In Hadithes, there are 3 Days, which are Days of God. They occur in this sequence:


1. Day of Rise of Qaim
2. Day of Return (رجعه)
3. Day of Judgement

Now, I will explain each of these Days, and how in Bahai view they are fulfilled:

In recorded traditions there are two promised ones. One is a Person whose lineage is from Muhammad, and is known as the 12th Imam, who rules for 7 years. In our view this Person is the Bab, and the number of years matches with period of His messengership!

Second Day, is the Day of return, which is symbolic return (I will prove it from Hadithes and Quran!...). Since all prophets are one and the same in Spiritual sense, when the Qaim and His companions come, it is as if, all Imams, and prophets of the past appeared. Likewise, anyone who disbelieves and fights with them, is, as if he is the return of infidles of past ages!

The third Day, is Day of Resurrection, or the Judgement Day. On that Day, Humanity meets with the Lord! But when we look at traditions, the Imams have said, humanity meets the Qaim! That is because, God is invisible and has no form, thus, His words and commands manifests from the Qaim. In Bahai view, this is fulfilled by Bahaullah، whose mission began after that Bab, and lasted for 40 years. In hadithes, it is said, after the 12th imam, Hussein returns, and rules for 40 years. It matches precisely with duration of mission of Bahaullah!
I completely see, the Hadithes and Quran compatible with Bahai Faith.

I understand, you would have more objections, and that is ok. I will be more than happy to give more clarification so we understand each others view better.
And if you think, anything I said, contredicts with Quran and Hadith, please point it out, then, I will bring evidence from sources of Islam.

But, here is another evidence from Quran and Hadithes:

القمي: ج‌ 2 ص‌ 245 - أخبرنا أحمد بن إدريس قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد، عن محمد بن يونس، عن رجل، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام في قول الله تبارك وتعالى: فأنظرني إلى يوم يبعثون قال فإنك من المنظرين إلى يوم الوقت المعلوم، قال: - * * * يوم الوقت المعلوم هو يوم ظهور المهدي عليه السلام


According to above Hadith, Abi Abdullah said, the Promised Day (یوم الوقت المعلوم) is the Day Mahdi manifests!

Here is another Hadith from Imam Rida:

- (الامام الرضا عليه السلام) " لا دين لمن لا ورع له، ولا إيمان لمن لا تقية له إن أكرمكم عند الله أعملكم بالتقية، فقيل له: يا ابن رسول الله إلى متى ؟ قال: إلى يوم الوقت المعلوم، وهو يوم خروج قائمنا أهل البيت فمن ترك التقية قبل خروج قائمنا فليس منا.

Here also Imam Rida says, the Promised Day is the Day of Rise of Our Qaim.


Now, here is another Hadith from Abi Abdullah, who says, The Promised Day is the Day of blowing the trumpet, and resurrection:


قال : ويوم الوقت المعلوم يوم ينفخ في الصور نفخة واحدة فيموت إبليس ما بين النفخة الاولى والثانية. وأما « ن » فكان نهرا في الجنة أشد بياضا من الثلج ، وأحلى من العسل ، قال الله عزوجل له : كن مدادا ، فكان مدادا ، ثم أخذ شجرة فغرسها بيده. ثم قال : واليد القوة ، وليس بحيث تذهب إليه المشبهة ثم قال لها : كوني قلما ، ثم قال له : اكتب ، فقال : يا رب وما أكتب؟ قال : ما هو كائن إلى يوم القيامة. ففعل ذلك ، ثم ختم عليه ، وقال : لا تنطقن إلى يوم الوقت المعلوم [١].


Thus, the Promised Day, the Day the Trmpet blows, and Day of Resurrction are the same. These terms are used interchangeably!


In our view, whenever the Quran and traditions talk about Resurrection of the Dead, they only mean in a spiritual sense! That is, when a guidance comes from God through the Qaim, the disbelievers are guided. This is symbolically expressed as Resurrection of the Dead. Here are more proves from Quran and traditions:


وقال الله عز وجل: " يخرج الحي من الميت ومخرج الميت من الحي [4] " فالحي: المؤمن الذي تخرج طينته من طينة الكافر والميت الذي يخرج من الحي: هو الكافر الذي يخرج من طينة المؤمن فالحي: المؤمن، والميت: الكافر وذلك قوله عز وجل: " أو من كان ميتا فأحييناه [5]

This Hadith is from Imam Sadiq. With regards to the verse 30:19 (He brings the Dead out of living....), Imam said, it means, the 'believer is the living', and the 'disbeliever is the dead'...He will cause the attributes of believer to appear in a disbeliever!

Now, here is the complete verse:

"He brings forth the living from the dead and the dead from the living. He gives life to the earth after its death, and you shall be raised to life in the same way." 30:19

We notice, "He gives life to earth after its death", according to Hadithes means, when the earth if filled with injustice, the Qaim will bring justice (I already quoted Hadithes for this, in this thread).
Now, last part of the verse says, 'you shall be raised to life in the same way', meaning, you (humanity), will receive a new guidance when Qaim comes, and is guided to the right path!

So, as we see, resurrection of the dead has a spiritual meaning. Nothing physical. In other places of Quran, it may appear physical, but in our view, those verses are also Mutishabihat!
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
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Here is farther evidence that Day of Resurrection means Day of Rise of Qaim:

Hadith from Imam Sadiq:

( وَكُنَّا نُكَذِّبُ بِيَوْمِ الدِّينِ ) قال يوم الدين خروج القائم

بحار الأنوار - ط مؤسسةالوفاء - العلامة المجلسي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت



According to this Hadith Imam Sadiq said, Day of Deen, is Day of Rise of Qaim.


Now, Imam Ali said, Day of Deen is the Judgement Day:

قوله عز وجل " مالك يوم الدين " قال الإمام عليه السلام: قادر على إقامة يوم الدين وهو يوم الحساب، قادر على تقديمه على وقته، وتأخيره بعد وقته، وهو المالك أيضا في يوم الدين، فهو يقضي بالحق لا يملك الحق والقضاء في ذلك اليوم من يظلم ويجور، كما يجور في الدنيا من يملك الاحكام.

بحار الأنوار - ط دارالاحیاء التراث - العلامة المجلسي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت




This proves, Day of Rise of Qaim, Day of Deen, Day of Judgment (الحساب) all mean the same, and Imams and Quran used these terms interchangeably to mean the Rise of Qaim!.
There are many more evidences to prove this again and again from Quran and Hadith!
 
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