The Meaning of Body Resurrection

[Ben Masada]

Body resurrection is the return to life of someone who has died. It's impossible for being against two kinds of laws: The first is natural laws. The second is Biblical laws.

God has established the natural laws, which have become the tools by which He governs the Universe. Any going against such laws, even by God Himself, would mean only weakness, for His having been unable to maintain order in the Universe.

Regarding Biblical laws, resurrection would only cause contradictions where Divine inspiration is claimed. Since God is not a God of confusion, resurrection must go and the Scriptures must be upheld.

The Scriptures are only too clear about dying and the impossibility to return. Some of the Biblical passages are: Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 88:6; 146:4; Proverbs 2:19; Ezekiel 26:20. I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.

But then, what happened to Jesus that millions today believe he resurrected? He didn't. What happened to him was resuscitation. Resurrection was made up much later by Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. If we read what he said to Timothy in his second Epistle 2:8, he connected the resurrection of Jesus to his own gospel. It means that there was another gospel at the time, which would not mention such a claim. It could only be the gospel of Jesus' disciples, who at the first indication of resurrection by the women, had considered their report as an ildle tale and nonsense. (Luke 24:11)

Then, we have Luke in Acts 1:1-3, saying that when Jesus started appearing to his disciples, with many convincing evidences that he was alive in flesh and bone, Luke said, "after his passion or suffering," not after death or resurrection. Therefore, it does not mean at all that Jesus had died and resurrected. True that Luke contradicts himself later, but that's normal of the NT.

Ben

 

[Enoch07]

Jesus was resurrected into his spiritual body. His spiritual body was made seen to this dimension so that people would see that He had conquered the angel of death (Satan), thus proving that belief in him would bring eternal life after death (Passover). Its called Transfiguration when God "atomizes" your physical body to release your true "spiritual body". God does this several times to various people throughout the Bible. This is why there was no body of Jesus inside his tomb, and why no body was ever found at all after that point.

 

[S-word]

I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.


You are wise to leave out the book of ecclesiastes the satirical work of Solomon.

The book of Sirach, which is to be found in the Apocrypha of the Old Testament, coupled together with the Book of Job, a number of the Psalms, Parables, Ecclesiastes, and the Wisdom of Solomon, all belong to the Hokmah or Wisdom Literature of the Hebrews. (The Hebrew, ’Mashal’ means, Similitude, parable, or proverb.) ------ In the Book of Sirach, R. H. Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, “By thy songs, parables, dark speeches, and satires, thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc. ----

“ Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc. A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a decent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off. Man and animals receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they will return.

A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for being good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, why kill yourself? We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life. So go ahead and eat drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all you will get for all your troubles. Never again will you take part in any thing that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise, and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

Solomon’s songs are found in his Book ’Song of Songs’, his parables are found in the Book of Proverbs, his dark speeches are in the ‘Wisdom of Solomon’, and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of Ecclesiastes without realising that here is the satirical work of Solomon, aimed at those who believed in neither life after death or the resurrection of the dead.

 

[sojourner]

Body resurrection is the return to life of someone who has died. It's impossible for being against two kinds of laws: The first is natural laws. The second is Biblical laws.

God has established the natural laws, which have become the tools by which He governs the Universe. Any going against such laws, even by God Himself, would mean only weakness, for His having been unable to maintain order in the Universe.

Regarding Biblical laws, resurrection would only cause contradictions where Divine inspiration is claimed. Since God is not a God of confusion, resurrection must go and the Scriptures must be upheld.

The Scriptures are only too clear about dying and the impossibility to return. Some of the Biblical passages are: Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 88:6; 146:4; Proverbs 2:19; Ezekiel 26:20. I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.

But then, what happened to Jesus that millions today believe he resurrected? He didn't. What happened to him was resuscitation. Resurrection was made up much later by Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. If we read what he said to Timothy in his second Epistle 2:8, he connected the resurrection of Jesus to his own gospel. It means that there was another gospel at the time, which would not mention such a claim. It could only be the gospel of Jesus' disciples, who at the first indication of resurrection by the women, had considered their report as an ildle tale and nonsense. (Luke 24:11)

Then, we have Luke in Acts 1:1-3, saying that when Jesus started appearing to his disciples, with many convincing evidences that he was alive in flesh and bone, Luke said, "after his passion or suffering," not after death or resurrection. Therefore, it does not mean at all that Jesus had died and resurrected. True that Luke contradicts himself later, but that's normal of the NT.

Ben

This proves nothing. The tradition out of which the OT comes had no conception of life after death (in the sense we do). It's no surprise that there's no mention of it in the OT.

However, in Mark we find several instances of Jesus overcoming the natural laws in his healings, resurrections, stilling the storm, etc. That's because Mark establishes Jesus as Lord of nature.

Again, we're not debating that resurrection was not an understanding that the OT writers had. But it is a concept that NT writers had. I don't see the problem.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus was resurrected into his spiritual body.

Ben: Great! And spiritual bodies can eat and drink, and digest their food just like material bodies. I have heard that one before.

His spiritual body was made seen to this dimension so that people would see that He had conquered the angel of death (Satan), thus proving that belief in him would bring eternal life after death (Passover).

Ben: I should know that to believe such a sonsense one had also to believe in Satan as angel of death. There is no such a thing as
Satan as a being. It's only a concept to illustrated the evil inclination in man.

Its called Transfiguration when God "atomizes" your physical body to release your true "spiritual body". God does this several times to various people throughout the Bible.

Ben: How about at least a quotation to help YOU out? Otherwise, you are in bad shape.

This is why there was no body of Jesus inside his tomb, and why no body was ever found at all after that point.

Ben: There was no body in the tomb because Joseph of Arimathea had removed Jesus from there in the first hours of that Friday evening when there was no one around and the tomb area was completely deserted. He was the one who resuscitaded Jesus and took care of his wounds. Afterwards, Jesus left the Land of Israel with his wife and Joseph of Arimathea.

 

[Ben Masada]

I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.


You are wise to leave out the book of ecclesiastes the satirical work of Solomon.

The book of Sirach, which is to be found in the Apocrypha of the Old Testament, coupled together with the Book of Job, a number of the Psalms, Parables, Ecclesiastes, and the Wisdom of Solomon, all belong to the Hokmah or Wisdom Literature of the Hebrews. (The Hebrew, ’Mashal’ means, Similitude, parable, or proverb.) ------ In the Book of Sirach, R. H. Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, “By thy songs, parables, dark speeches, and satires, thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc. ----

“ Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc. A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a decent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off. Man and animals receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they will return.

A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for being good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, why kill yourself? We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life. So go ahead and eat drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all you will get for all your troubles. Never again will you take part in any thing that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise, and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

Solomon’s songs are found in his Book ’Song of Songs’, his parables are found in the Book of Proverbs, his dark speeches are in the ‘Wisdom of Solomon’, and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of Ecclesiastes without realising that here is the satirical work of Solomon, aimed at those who believed in neither life after death or the resurrection of the dead.

Does it mean you agree with me that there is no afterlife?

 

[Ben Masada]

This proves nothing. The tradition out of which the OT comes had no conception of life after death (in the sense we do). It's no surprise that there's no mention of it in the OT.

However, in Mark we find several instances of Jesus overcoming the natural laws in his healings, resurrections, stilling the storm, etc. That's because Mark establishes Jesus as Lord of nature.

Again, we're not debating that resurrection was not an understanding that the OT writers had. But it is a concept that NT writers had. I don't see the problem.

Thank you! You have confirmed my views that the concept of afterlife, and resurrection, is a NT fabrication. Mind you that Jesus was born, lived his life and died, and never had any idea about the NT. The only Scriptures he ever used was the Tanach. Therefore, he could have never tought something that the Hebrew Scriputres would not acknowledge.

 

[S-word]

Does it mean you agree with me that there is no afterlife?

Nope! Like I said, the book of Ecclesiastes is Solomons little sarcastic arrow=barb, aimed at people such as yourself who do not believe in the after life or the resurrection from the dead.


A wise man is no better than a fool, the reward for being good is the same as that for doing evil, so don't be too good or too wise, why kill yourself? we are all going to the same place and life is useless, so let us all eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die and never more shall we take part in anything that happens beneath the sun.

If you have ever read 'The Wisdom of Solomon', you will know that Solomon believed in the after life and the resurrection and that this book is his satirical work spoken of by Ben Sirach.

Nah mate, you continue to believe what you wish to believe, I will continue to believe God's word, Isaian 57: 1; Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can hurt them. those who lead good lives: Who? those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

For according to Jesus, those who lead good lives are gathered to the bosom of Abraham, while they who lead selfish and wicked lives, cry out in torment as they await the inevitable; the day when the spirit that has developed upon their share of God's immortal soul is wiped clean, as one wipes the words and visions from a tape, then the Lord will give to that portion of his life force, a new heart=body and a new mind=spirit.

 

[sojourner]

There was no body in the tomb because Joseph of Arimathea had removed Jesus from there in the first hours of that Friday evening when there was no one around and the tomb area was completely deserted. He was the one who resuscitaded Jesus and took care of his wounds. Afterwards, Jesus left the Land of Israel with his wife and Joseph of Arimathea.

There's nothing in the Biblical record to support this. But there's plenty in a popular Tom Hanks movie...

Thank you! You have confirmed my views that the concept of afterlife, and resurrection, is a NT fabrication. Mind you that Jesus was born, lived his life and died, and never had any idea about the NT. The only Scriptures he ever used was the Tanach. Therefore, he could have never tought something that the Hebrew Scriputres would not acknowledge.

Of course there was no NT while Jesus was alive. It would be rather stupid to think otherwise. But that doesn't mean that he didn't begin teaching about an afterlife. There's no reason to think that his resurrection quotations aren't authentic.

In fact, Jesus did teach things that the OT wouldn't have acknowledged. He plucked grain on the Sabbath. he healed on the Sabbath. he forgave sins. You may say that these are later stories "added to the tradition," but there's no real reason to think that they don't have a basis in truth, either. Despite what you may think, Xy is not a Pauline fabrication.

 

[tomspug]

The idea that natural laws disproves resurrection first of all requires that you have the same knowledge of natural law that God does, secondly it requires that God is, in fact, limited by natural law.

 

[Ben Masada]

There's nothing in the Biblical record to support this. But there's plenty in a popular Tom Hanks movie...

Of course there was no NT while Jesus was alive. It would be rather stupid to think otherwise. But that doesn't mean that he didn't begin teaching about an afterlife. There's no reason to think that his resurrection quotations aren't authentic.

In fact, Jesus did teach things that the OT wouldn't have acknowledged. He plucked grain on the Sabbath. he healed on the Sabbath. he forgave sins. You may say that these are later stories "added to the tradition," but there's no real reason to think that they don't have a basis in truth, either. Despite what you may think, Xy is not a Pauline fabrication.

You are too fast in saying that there is no Scripture to support what I say. I am waiting for an scripture to support what you say that Jesus taught about an afterlife.

Well, let's see if there is no reason to think that the quotations about the resurrection are not authentic. When Paul wrote his second Letter to Timothy, he said that Jesus was of the lineage of David and that he had resurrected was the gospel that he was preaching. (II Tim. 2:8) Why those items had to be according to his gospel? Opposite to what gospel? Obviously, there was another gospel being preached about Jesus which did not mention that Jesus was from the lineage of David or that he had resurrected. Probably the gospel of the Nazarenes, disciples of Jesus. Does it make sense to you? If not, I would like to hear your logic.

If Christianity is not a Pauline fabrication, tell me why his converts were called Christians first in Antioch, after he spent a whole year there teaching about Jesus as Christ. (Acts 11:26)

 

[sojourner]

You are too fast in saying that there is no Scripture to support what I say.

'K. show me.

I am waiting for an scripture to support what you say that Jesus taught about an afterlife.

Just for starters, what about the thief on the cross? They were all going to die. Jesus certainly knew that, for he predicted it. He told the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

The faithful were called "Christians" first in Antioch, as a perjorative term. Remember, Xy began in the urban centers as a fringe minority.

 

[Heneni]

Body resurrection is the return to life of someone who has died. It's impossible for being against two kinds of laws: The first is natural laws. The second is Biblical laws.

God has established the natural laws, which have become the tools by which He governs the Universe. Any going against such laws, even by God Himself, would mean only weakness, for His having been unable to maintain order in the Universe.

Regarding Biblical laws, resurrection would only cause contradictions where Divine inspiration is claimed. Since God is not a God of confusion, resurrection must go and the Scriptures must be upheld.

The Scriptures are only too clear about dying and the impossibility to return. Some of the Biblical passages are: Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 88:6; 146:4; Proverbs 2:19; Ezekiel 26:20. I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.

But then, what happened to Jesus that millions today believe he resurrected? He didn't. What happened to him was resuscitation. Resurrection was made up much later by Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. If we read what he said to Timothy in his second Epistle 2:8, he connected the resurrection of Jesus to his own gospel. It means that there was another gospel at the time, which would not mention such a claim. It could only be the gospel of Jesus' disciples, who at the first indication of resurrection by the women, had considered their report as an ildle tale and nonsense. (Luke 24:11)

Then, we have Luke in Acts 1:1-3, saying that when Jesus started appearing to his disciples, with many convincing evidences that he was alive in flesh and bone, Luke said, "after his passion or suffering," not after death or resurrection. Therefore, it does not mean at all that Jesus had died and resurrected. True that Luke contradicts himself later, but that's normal of the NT.

Ben

Yes Jesus spoke of resurrection. He said..unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies it remains alone, but if it dies, it produces much fruit.

 

[S-word]

You are too fast in saying that there is no Scripture to support what I say. I am waiting for an scripture to support what you say that Jesus taught about an afterlife.

Jesus taught about life after death in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Lazarus who had lived a good life was at rest in the bosom of Abraham, while the rich man who lived a selfish life, disregarding the needs of others, suffered in torment in the world of Hades.

Jesus would have known this from the holy scriptures in which Isaiah says in 57:1; Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when good people die, no calamity cand hurt them. Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

Now, if it only good people who find peace and rest in death, then there remains another state for people who do not lead good lives, and Jesus reveals that state of torment in his story of Lazarus and the rich man.

But you must keep growing in your errors until you reach a height where you can be brought down with a crash that can be heard through out the forum.

 

[jtartar]

Body resurrection is the return to life of someone who has died. It's impossible for being against two kinds of laws: The first is natural laws. The second is Biblical laws.

God has established the natural laws, which have become the tools by which He governs the Universe. Any going against such laws, even by God Himself, would mean only weakness, for His having been unable to maintain order in the Universe.

Regarding Biblical laws, resurrection would only cause contradictions where Divine inspiration is claimed. Since God is not a God of confusion, resurrection must go and the Scriptures must be upheld.

The Scriptures are only too clear about dying and the impossibility to return. Some of the Biblical passages are: Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 88:6; 146:4; Proverbs 2:19; Ezekiel 26:20. I am leaving Ecclesiastes out for being almost the whole book about the same issue: Against afterlife.

But then, what happened to Jesus that millions today believe he resurrected? He didn't. What happened to him was resuscitation. Resurrection was made up much later by Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. If we read what he said to Timothy in his second Epistle 2:8, he connected the resurrection of Jesus to his own gospel. It means that there was another gospel at the time, which would not mention such a claim. It could only be the gospel of Jesus' disciples, who at the first indication of resurrection by the women, had considered their report as an ildle tale and nonsense. (Luke 24:11)

Then, we have Luke in Acts 1:1-3, saying that when Jesus started appearing to his disciples, with many convincing evidences that he was alive in flesh and bone, Luke said, "after his passion or suffering," not after death or resurrection. Therefore, it does not mean at all that Jesus had died and resurrected. True that Luke contradicts himself later, but that's normal of the NT.

Ben

Ben Masada,
I can see your reason for trying to destroy the beliefs in Christianity. Being a Jew, you were God's chosen people, but because you did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, but rejected God's son, you now have neither the son or the Father.
You do not even obey your own laws. Consider Deut 19:15, which says that every matter should good by two or three witnesses. The Christian Greek Scriptures were written by many more Jews than required. Even the Four Gospels were written by four Jews. Why do you reject God's law???

All the scriptures that you cited were showing that the resurrection was impossible for man. This is not so with God, for the Greek Scriptures speak about the resurrection many times.
You cited Job, but you failed to mention Job 14:14,15, which tells about Job waiting in death until God calls him back.
What about Isa 26:19??
The term resurrection means to stand up to life again.
Abraham, on whom you believe, believed in the resurrection. That is the reason he was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac, through whom the promises would continue.
Several people were even resurrected in the Hebrew Scriptures, by prophets, Elijah, Elisha caused two to be resurrected.

 

[S-word]

Several people were even resurrected in the Hebrew Scriptures, by prophets, Elijah, Elisha caused two to be resurrected.

Nope! those who were resuscitated by Jesus and the other prophets have long since died and their bodies have returned to the universal elements from which they were formed.

Although their spirits still exist in Hades the world of the dead, whether in a state of rest or torment, where they await the resurrection to eternal life or to be cast back into the refining fire of another cycle of universal activity, who can tell?

 

[sojourner]

Even the Four Gospels were written by four Jews.

We don't know that, especially in the case of Luke.

Abraham, on whom you believe, believed in the resurrection.

No, he didn't.

 

[herushura]

The Word "Ressurect" comes from the gods RA+Assur(osiris). When you Die you first meet Osiris, who judges you of sins and weight your heart on the scales of truth, if you are worthy enough you go to paradise.

Christianity distorted the original true meanings of "Ressurect"

 

[Ben Masada]

'K. show me.

Just for starters, what about the thief on the cross? They were all going to die. Jesus certainly knew that, for he predicted it. He told the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

The faithful were called "Christians" first in Antioch, as a perjorative term. Remember, Xy began in the urban centers as a fringe minority.

Jews do not believe in an afterlife. Now, you have a choice. Since that alleged talk of Jesus with the thief on the cross was recorded 50+ years after Jesus had been gone, your choice is either to admit that it was an interpolation by the Gentile who wrote the gospel or stop claiming that Jesus was Jewish. What do you pick?

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes Jesus spoke of resurrection. He said..unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies it remains alone, but if it dies, it produces much fruit.

Jesus was a Jewish learnt man, and he knew that the idea of bodily resurrection is a contradiction to the Scriptures. Therefore, he was not speaking of resurrection. That's as simple as a syllogism can be.