The mind and the brain

[chinu]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more?

Mind means existence, and brian means intelligency of that existence.
Both mind and brain keeps on changing after getting new aprehensions in life. Thus.. as a result almost every individual get new views at the end of life.

Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc?

Well.. the work of every mind and brain is to always think, feel, experience etc.. continuously. As nobody is out of this continues process, and everybodies mind and brain keeps on changing after getting new aprehensions in life, So what's the use of explaining our ability to others ? its all useless.

Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?

Subconscious mind works are the results of our habits.
For example: One is in the habit of doing crime, So its not a very big thing for that person. Rather its very big for the person who is doing for the first time.

 

[atanu]

This has been discussed endlessly without a resolution. OK. Once more. Brain alonwith the sense organs are the tools for the aware being.
...........................................................
Without the power of cognition the brain itself would not be cognized. Moreover, a brain in a lifeless body does not show any capacity to cognize etc.

As per Vedanta the being is sheathed within five layers of clothing; Bliss,Ego or Intellect, Mind, Life or Vital Air, Food or Matter, from inner to outer.

The being traverses from name-form to name-form together with the inner 3sheaths (discarding the outer two at each transition) as long as ego desireslast.

As the outer two layers are shed, the superficial information related to the immediate body and the conscious mind is lost.But we know that instincts are not lostt even in abnimals. Yogis of all religions through concentration of mind on pure consciousnesshave averred that the soul transits from a body to another.

As per this understanding, the being that transits from form to form isnothing but conditioned awareness with particular set/s of desire/s.

If the awareness was mechanically generatedthrough material interaction alone, then there was no way that we could use ourintellect and make choices and decisions – we would simply be mechanistic machines. We may very well be mechanistic machines only but inthat case the view point of those who assert the mechanistic view point is alsothat. Whereas, even for claiming that the material brain is the source ofintellect, intellect is required. Before we can see the brain and understandits working, intellect is required.

Machines can make choices.

Hi

That I have granted for you several times long ago. No arguments since I cannot argue with an intellect generated and controlled by chemicals.
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Because some thinking is truly mechanistic, there is no way that an analysis from outside the system could even be contemplated.

Why does a human being think that the awareness that they have is all that there is? The arrogant conclusion of infallibilty of rational thinking is erroneusly based on this assumption.

What does a crow or a cow have for awareness? What does a man have for awareness during waking, dreaming, and sleeping? Can there be an awareness that can watch the mind? What do yogis who stop all mental movement yet exist find?

The answers are there. The knowledge that we own the awareness (opposed to the lie that chemicals own our awareness) is employed regularly in meditation techniques such as Yoga Nidra and many others to the control and calm the mind.

The commercial medicine industry will do anything to suppress this knowledge that awareness is one thing and sensual and mental experiences are another. The mental experience varies under different states. But the awareness to experience does not.

 

[atanu]

As a materialist I'd say it's a product of the brain,
Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?
....
It is a product of the brain. I have the idea of how it works, but really I think it's better to let actual neurologists do the explaining instead of me:

Source: How does your Subconscious Mind Work? - Health & Wealth Centre

Hope I helped!

The reference does not say what you say.

 

[PolyHedral]

No arguments since I cannot argue with an intellect generated and controlled by chemicals.

Why not?

 

[work in progress]

This does not and cannot happen. Energy does not retain form or coherency in this way.

I'm expecting the term for mind to switch from "energy" to "information" very soon now. Since Deepak Chopra and some other purveyors of quantum quackery start rambling on about "information fields" and how information can never be destroyed in their Huffpo new age spiritualism editorials. But, whenever I've discussed this previously with fans of quantum mysticism, I've never got an answer for this information that has left our bodies maintains it's coherence out there in the ether. It's more likely just a matter of spiritual concepts being updated now and again with scientific-sounding jargon.

 

[1137]

I'm expecting the term for mind to switch from "energy" to "information" very soon now. Since Deepak Chopra and some other purveyors of quantum quackery start rambling on about "information fields" and how information can never be destroyed in their Huffpo new age spiritualism editorials. But, whenever I've discussed this previously with fans of quantum mysticism, I've never got an answer for this information that has left our bodies maintains it's coherence out there in the ether. It's more likely just a matter of spiritual concepts being updated now and again with scientific-sounding jargon.

I didn't know quantum mysticism infered new age nonsense and belief in consciousness survival and whatever else. Good to know what I really believe...

 

[work in progress]

I didn't know quantum mysticism infered new age nonsense and belief in consciousness survival and whatever else. Good to know what I really believe...

My concern is not over what people believe or do not want to believe. And I believe the reality of what we can actually know about our existence ranges from unsatisfying to horrifying in the eyes of most people. So, unlike most new atheist fans, I don't expect some kind of rush to accept some form of materialism.

My problem with the mushy, nebulous spirituality that gets passed around these days, is that it makes claims about the nature of mind - from free will to existence of mind being separate from the brain and continuing after physical death, that are as invalid as concepts of a flat earth and the world being created 6000 years ago, and they open the door for fraudulent medicine, retributive justice and arguments against abortion and euthanasia, that can do great harm to others, and have nothing to back up their core foundations other than our misperceptions about our selves and the world around us.

 

[1137]

My concern is not over what people believe or do not want to believe. And I believe the reality of what we can actually know about our existence ranges from unsatisfying to horrifying in the eyes of most people. So, unlike most new atheist fans, I don't expect some kind of rush to accept some form of materialism.

My problem with the mushy, nebulous spirituality that gets passed around these days, is that it makes claims about the nature of mind - from free will to existence of mind being separate from the brain and continuing after physical death, that are as invalid as concepts of a flat earth and the world being created 6000 years ago, and they open the door for fraudulent medicine, retributive justice and arguments against abortion and euthanasia, that can do great harm to others, and have nothing to back up their core foundations other than our misperceptions about our selves and the world around us.

I agree with that, it is quite annoying that we try to use science to validate silly religious beliefs (although I may disagree that we have NO free will, and retributivism is the only true justice). But I digress haha. The reason seems to be comfort, people choose to ignore the facts that we know or add their own hocus pocus to them because it is much more comfortable. Of course, that is illogical, and lack of full understanding does not mean magical forces are behind everything.

 

[FearGod]

The body and brain is like a car and the soul is it's driver

we are just a machine but we have our own free decision making.

i may call the sense organs as the input devices to the brain(CPU),example

Tasting device :imagine one cup of tea with one spoon sugar,and another cup
with 10 spoons of sugar.

Your taste buds will show you the difference of taste between the one spoon sugar
and 10 spoon sugar,then it is "you" as a decision maker to choose which one to drink.

So your soul is the decision maker and the driver of your body.

Some parts of our bodies are programmed to work automatically like our lungs and hearts,
which show us that our bodies are similar to the machines and every soul manage it's
own machine(body).

 

[Vultar]

You need to realize that energy is not a substance. It is just a shorthand for particular arrangements of objects. In physics terms, it is the ability to do work (force times distance). Your post is nonsensical.

This treating phenomena as things when they are not things is one of the basic errors of thought that give rise to religious thinking.

I'm glad you have informed me that eletrons don't exist, but I'm not believing you...
I know you can't see them... but they are there (there is probably some other particles that go with you in the afterlife but I didn't have an eletron microscope with me to examine the exact makeup of particles that are in the spirit)

On a brighter note, you get to be pleasently surprised once you go to the afterlife (unlike those who believe in an almighty god who get to be disappointed)

 

[Vultar]

Looncall is correct. I take it you don't mean energy as in from physics?

I'm meaning the physical particales like electrons (the main particles in energy and possibly other particles as well), Looncall is simply twisting the meaning of what I stated for some reason. (maybe he just didn't understand - or maybe I just simplified it too much)

 

[Vultar]

This does not and cannot happen. Energy does not retain form or coherency in this way.

Then you tell me the exact particle makeup of the part of a person that is floating about in an "out of body" experience. It would be the same part that becomes the spirit in the afterlife. (I'm thinking it is a majority electrons - but I could be wrong and it is made up of different particles, I had no way to test it)

 

[Looncall]

I'm glad you have informed me that eletrons don't exist, but I'm not believing you...
I know you can't see them... but they are there (there is probably some other particles that go with you in the afterlife but I didn't have an eletron microscope with me to examine the exact makeup of particles that are in the spirit)

On a brighter note, you get to be pleasently surprised once you go to the afterlife (unlike those who believe in an almighty god who get to be disappointed)

How do you know that there is an afterlife?

You did not mention electrons, but energy. The electrons of your body stay with their atoms after you die. Nothing mystical about it at all. This kind of new-agey woo-woo is rather irritating.

For an idea of my view, you might like to check out a satire that you can find by searching on "Kissing Hank's". It is a little crude, but very apt.

 

[Vultar]

How do you know that there is an afterlife?

That one is simple to answer (but not for you to believe). I've died 4 times (1986, 2009, 2010, 2011).

You did not mention electrons, but energy. The electrons of your body stay with their atoms after you die. Nothing mystical about it at all. This kind of new-agey woo-woo is rather irritating.

Sorry I confused you or didn't explain myself correctly, maybe I should have used the term "electrical impulses" or something along that line. I can only use what I know to try to explain my experiences.

For an idea of my view, you might like to check out a satire that you can find by searching on "Kissing Hank's". It is a little crude, but very apt.

I'll have to check that out later, I always enjoy good humour.

 

[Thief]

The brain could almost be considered a "training arena" for the spirit. It has pathways which guide the electrical impulses and the body contains to sensory input devices (eyes, ears, skin etc). Throughout life, the brain is learning from all these inputs, in essence, guiding the electrical impulses in specific ways.

After you die, the energy leaves the host body, but has been "trained" how to move to continue to have thought. This energy is the spirit which can do a number of things after death. Depending on the experiences during life the amount of energy can be more or less. For example, if a baby dies, their energy would be very small (and have little control) and they would have limited options in the afterlife (pretty much just reicarnation for another shot). Your stronger energy spirit can sustain itself in the afterlife and can even split energy off to be reicarnated as a new spirit.

I know this all sounds strange (or crazy), but... it is what it is....

This is good.
But we are under 'religious debates'.
Will there be an effort to bring God into this?

 

[kellykep]

Is the mind a product of the brain, or is it something more? Can the physical brain alone explain our ability to think, feel, experience, interpret, be aware, etc? Also, how exactly does the subconscious mind work? Is it also a product of the brain, or something else?

The brain maps out in fine details all the organs of the body and represent them point by point in the entire surface area of the brain. There are primary areas and areas of associations with the primary areas. There is also crossing over of the representation of the body in the brain (Einstein had a lot of this). There are specialized areas as well devoted especially for the senses. There is one area in the brain stem called the Reticular Activating System (RAS). This is responsible for wakefulness. RAS receives alot of relaying information from all centers of the brain and outputs them to all centers of the brain and the body appropriately. Much like the rest of the brain, its activity and functions is not well understood to date, though.

That's brain in general. But what is mind? I'd like like to think of it as the spontaneous activity of the brain without stimulations from the other parts of the body (peripheral organs). It is a very vague subject, lying somewhere in pshychiatry,psychology, religion, phiosophy, etc.

 

[waitasec]

This is good.
But we are under 'religious debates'.
Will there be an effort to bring God into this?

why does a god have to be involved in religious debates?

 

[FearGod]

The brain maps out in fine details all the organs of the body and represent them point by point in the entire surface area of the brain. There are primary areas and areas of associations with the primary areas. There is also crossing over of the representation of the body in the brain (Einstein had a lot of this). There are specialized areas as well devoted especially for the senses. There is one area in the brain stem called the Reticular Activating System (RAS). This is responsible for wakefulness. RAS receives alot of relaying information from all centers of the brain and outputs them to all centers of the brain and the body appropriately. Much like the rest of the brain, its activity and functions is not well understood to date, though.

That's brain in general. But what is mind? I'd like like to think of it as the spontaneous activity of the brain without stimulations from the other parts of the body (peripheral organs). It is a very vague subject, lying somewhere in pshychiatry,psychology, religion, phiosophy, etc.

i think the different between brain and mind ,can be understood as follow.

every one got similar brain,but we got different minds,similar thing to say that
animals have brains,but do not have similar minds to human.

Brain is the physical body,wheresa the mind is data stored and the ability to think and analyze each situation.

You may say to a person you don't have mind,but it isn't correct to say you don't have brain,
because every one got a brain.

 

[1137]

I'm meaning the physical particales like electrons (the main particles in energy and possibly other particles as well), Looncall is simply twisting the meaning of what I stated for some reason. (maybe he just didn't understand - or maybe I just simplified it too much)

Well our atom stay together when we die. This is why you bury a body, not an empty casket. Another important part you are missing, just to help you out, is that vibration is probably more basic than a particle. If you are going into quantum new age do it correctly!

Then you tell me the exact particle makeup of the part of a person that is floating about in an "out of body" experience. It would be the same part that becomes the spirit in the afterlife. (I'm thinking it is a majority electrons - but I could be wrong and it is made up of different particles, I had no way to test it)

Ok, absolutely nothing is floating about in an out of body experience. It is an illusion of the mind. Many people who are into mysticism take drugs such as LSD, psychedelic mushrooms, salvia, DMT, etc because they think it is allowing them to get in touch with things spiritually. Well, I am not saying there is nothing to experience, but all of what you experience on drugs (including OBEs) is a product of the brain.

This kind of new-agey woo-woo is rather irritating

I agree.

 

[1137]

If you want to get into quantum mysticism you will have to try harder. You see, obviously there is something non-material that all comes from, as all is vibration and not actually mass. There is something that all this comes from, the material really isn't material or physical at all. Start there.