A minimum wage is a good starting point, but it needs to be changed to a living wage and a wage cap needs to be enacted.
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The Minimum Wage: Good or Bad? [POLL]
- Thread starter Ultimatum
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Nothing provides incentive like fixing a limit on folks wages.
But if income is limited, anything they'd have earned over the limit would all accrue to the poor....right?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
FDR cornered the high end wealthy when our economy tanked......he told them.....
You did this....you are going to fix it
social benefits were born
illykitty
RF's pet cat
Yes, since I have no faith in big corporations to do the right thing and treat employees as living beings. I have more faith in smaller business owners, I'd like to assume most would do so, they are perhaps more connected to their employees and would see repercussions of too small of a pay and so on.
But I think it is simply ethical to make sure that people aren't taken advantage of. Same with other laws, such as minimum age, vacation, some countries have maximum work hours, and so on. An underpaid burnt out employee is not efficient anyway, it seems to me a poor business model. Look at how Japanese men are being worked to death and all of these laws and regulations will make sense. Also might want to read some Oliver Twist.
Also, I think we're just living in some interesting times, many things are going to crumble. It's just the impermanence of life. With robots and AI coming in, it's going to have a much greater effect than anything else before it. So I don't think getting a minimum wage causes businesses to crumble, I think that's the silly simple answer that points fingers at social progress instead of truly digging in and search for the true cause.
But I think it is simply ethical to make sure that people aren't taken advantage of. Same with other laws, such as minimum age, vacation, some countries have maximum work hours, and so on. An underpaid burnt out employee is not efficient anyway, it seems to me a poor business model. Look at how Japanese men are being worked to death and all of these laws and regulations will make sense. Also might want to read some Oliver Twist.
Also, I think we're just living in some interesting times, many things are going to crumble. It's just the impermanence of life. With robots and AI coming in, it's going to have a much greater effect than anything else before it. So I don't think getting a minimum wage causes businesses to crumble, I think that's the silly simple answer that points fingers at social progress instead of truly digging in and search for the true cause.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are some who will argue that for the fed to establish a mandated minimum wage is just "big government" in action, but they need to consider the consequences of not doing as such, especially the effect of so many having to go on government assistance of various types because their income is well below the poverty line. Also, what does extreme poverty do to the crime rate, family breakups, kids not eating or being educated properly, etc.?
As the old saying goes, "You get what you willing to pay for".
As the old saying goes, "You get what you willing to pay for".
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
We have a dire situation in this country in that we have provided a fatal environment for the unemployed and economically discouraged worker. We have a benefits system and minimum wage that forces citizens to not engage in job searching or voluntary denial of employment. It, along with tax evasion, is one of the great scourges and hinders unleashing the possible productive potential that is hidden in plain sight.
The reason is the left-wing and trade unions. These are the modern institutionalised weapon of economic destruction. By forcing a minimum wage and refusing to debate about reforming our social security system and the negative income tax, these people instead resort to "muh feels".
Is it not ironic that a right-winger and monetarist should want a fairer, more sensible society than the socialist that claims they want the same? These things are a little more sensitive than they first appear, but they are too idealistic: they're trying to get through the mouse hole when the barn door is open!
Thus, it is not the market or le evil capitalists le bankers le bonuses meme horse**** that has created this society: it has been the left-wing and their ****ing shambles policies that have influenced successive government failure.
The magnitude may be disputed, but the fact remains steadfast.
Can you explain why a minimum wage caused your steel and cement industries to crumble???
A living wage is just another handout. And what constitutes a living wage?
As for the wage cap, I agree economically all things being equal.
But at the same time you would need to carefully set the cap.
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Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Not into that, sorry.
Cite your sources and give an example of your argument.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Akivah
Well-Known Member
The minimum wage doesn't help the poor people in any meaningful wage. Sure they'll get some more money to start with. But businesses will need to raise their prices to cover their increased costs. The cost is typically the amount of the extra wages plus 50% to cover the bump up in payroll taxes and benefits. I'd prefer the market determining the value of an employee's work instead of the government.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Apologies, I thought it was obvious.
Please cite sources that back up your arguments on min wage.
Give an example that validates your arguments against the left-wing.
Points to consider:
poor low skilled workers need more money. that's all this addresses.
so now, they're less poor but still poor.
they're still low skilled workers also. did it improve their skill level. no... nope.
does it teach them anything else? no... no it doesn't.
i'm one for not giving money because who know what that money will be used for. if you don't know what that money is being used for then you don't know if you're fixing the issue.
if we want to fix a problem, we root out the problem and address it.
instead of just giving money blindly, let's give assistance like education and training.
at least there's a chance to fix the actual issue.
so now, they're less poor but still poor.
they're still low skilled workers also. did it improve their skill level. no... nope.
does it teach them anything else? no... no it doesn't.
i'm one for not giving money because who know what that money will be used for. if you don't know what that money is being used for then you don't know if you're fixing the issue.
if we want to fix a problem, we root out the problem and address it.
instead of just giving money blindly, let's give assistance like education and training.
at least there's a chance to fix the actual issue.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's hard to eat money and live in a school. Granted, just throwing money around ain't good.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
To raise the minimum wage for fast-food employees to an average of $15 an hour would be covered by raising prices less than 5 cents per item. If kept at the low m.w. as found in most states, many employees have to go on some forms of government assistance, which ultimately costs you and I more through taxes. I personally know of a couple of people who have had to do as such, btw, so it's not just a hypothetical problem.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/labor/negative-effects-minimum-wage-laws
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/16/minimum-wage-labor-economics-opinions-contributors-art-carden.html
What? Is this some sixth form economics club I've stumbled into?
this has nothing to do with any of this.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
You must be in poverty then.
£23000/ annum allows you into the 1% in terms of income flow. I triple that figure.
Indeed, tens of millions in the UK also fit this bill.
But that aside, what on Earth are you talking about? What I suggest (rid of minimum wage, social security and introduction of NIT) would HARM the rich.
It's just that the left-wing doogooders don't understand basic economics.
So you are saying that you are upper crust, that cares about no one but himself. Yes I live in poverty by your standards and its because of right wing a holes that think like you, that I am not treated better as I am disabled.
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