The Monopoly of Religious Believers

[nazz]

:thud: I agree, I did say without a god an atheist can do what a theist does.
But I have also said that an atheist would not do those abhorrent things I have mentioned.

I don't see agreement in those two statements.

Anyway, the old "atheists are better than believers" shtick gets old.

 

[monti]

The child would be able to choose for itself in most situations.

fail

I also don't claim to know what my brother would or not do when he has a child. He is still technically a child himself.

so your brother is "technically " a child, but refused to have a transfusion? is he still alive?

What about the atheists I mentioned who had had circumcision?

you said "various reasons", I agreed in that circumcision is sometimes needed in medical situations, this is where there would bee a NEED to have it performed. Do you actually think a atheist would agree to this if it were not necessary ?

Why is it ok for an atheist to choose to have a circumcision but not a believer? Both is a choose that person makes.

he may have no choice because it is NEEDED. But show me an example of an atheist having circumcision for the fun of it and I will show you a lunatic.

What about atheists that commit murder?
What about atheists that lie?

what about them?

The problem I have with your arguments is you are making sweeping statements. You have an issue with religion so every act ever committed in the name of a belief which is still a choice is wrong..

.
I do have an issue of faith in a god that dictates all those abhorrent actions committed by his sheep on his behalf.

You wrongly claimed that atheists wouldn't do these acts, but I gave you examples where they have!

No you gave me an anecdote(who refused a blood transfusion) about your brother who is "is still technically a child himself" according to you.

I believe in God, I believe in loving my neighbour....is the act of loving my neighbour wrong?.

Of course not but do you need a god to tell you this, do you need faith in a god to tell you this. Do you think you cannot do this unless you have faith in a god? would it no be better to do these things out of conviction rather than because you have a faith in a god. ?[/quote]

Remember it's my choice to do this, but with your logic, the reason is my belief and so the act is wrong?

No you have missed my point altogether or you simply do not understand my point or you are on a back foot or in denial..
or all the above.

 

[nazz]

The bigger question may be: Why do religious believers need a dogmatic holy book to tell them how to love in the first place? I mean, without Jesus, many of us would still probably realize that it's better to show love and affection towards others. Commanding love turns it into something unnatural.

Indeed. It's quite unnatural to love one's enemies. The thought probably would never occur to me if I had not read Jesus said to do so.

 

[monti]

You have a very angry and hardened heart

Assumption..

I hope that one day you realise not all people who believe do this,

I do realised that, atheist won't do those thing.

just because a woman chooses not to use contraceptives, it's got nothing to do with me.

It is a dictate of a god that they must not use contraceptives, according to the RC church is it not?

I don't fully disagree with you,

You mean you disagree but cannot give me any examples as mentioned above. as you say you "have done already".

The difference being I don't make sweeping statements and I accept those people are still choosing to do those things.

And what about those who do not choose but do so because their gods dictate it? , what about children who have no say in any matter?

They are not held at gun point,

Well they are aren't they, they are threatened with purgatory and hell fire etc etc.

they choose to do it.

yes you keep repeating that too but have shown me no proof.

I truly hope you lose the anger and can see the good in some believers and the bad in atheists.

like I have said, you have totally missed the point.

Or perhaps you want me to blame the lack of belief for your anger?

more assumption TF. do you think I would be less angry (as you believe I am) if I believed in a god?

Or the reason an atheist murders or rapes or judges others for not living the lifestyle they do?

The old testament is riddled with these abhorrent crimes You mention above, committed by humans against humans on the orders of their god.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Indeed. It's quite unnatural to love one's enemies. The thought probably would never occur to me if I had not read Jesus said to do so.

To me it seems quite natural to love one's enemies. If I see a rabid dog in the street, I don't hate him. I put him down, but I don't hate him.

 

[monti]

Indeed. It's quite unnatural to love one's enemies. The thought probably would never occur to me if I had not read Jesus said to do so.

Indeed, What is the point in loving someone who wants to kill you and is determined to kill you? Does jesus answer that anywhere in the scriptures.

 

[nazz]

Indeed, What is the point in loving someone who wants to kill you and is determined to kill you? Does jesus answer that anywhere in the scriptures.

There is a point but it takes time and experience to understand.

 

[monti]

There is a point but it takes time and experience to understand.

I see you have your Religion down as "truth".
So tell me, what came first, truth or religion?

 

[monti]

To me it seems quite natural to love one's enemies. If I see a rabid dog in the street, I don't hate him. I put him down, but I don't hate him.

Slight difference AG, The dog may want to kill you rabid or not. It is rather difficult sometimes to "hate" an animal for doing what comes natural to an animal.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Slight difference AG, The dog may want to kill you rabid or not. It is rather difficult sometimes to "hate" an animal for doing what comes natural to an animal.

We are all animals.

 

[idav]

It is rather difficult sometimes to "hate" an animal for doing what comes natural to an animal.

I agree but at the same time I think humans should know better. We are natural and do natural things. Sex, greed and happiness are all part of our nature.

 

[monti]

Slight difference AG, The dog may want to kill you rabid or not. It is rather difficult sometimes to "hate" an animal for doing what comes natural to an animal.

We are all animals.

I did say "slight difference" AmbiguousGuy .

..............................................................................

I agree but at the same time I think humans should know better. We are natural and do natural things. Sex, greed and happiness are all part of our nature.

Indeed, idav, we are reminded often are we not, that we were made in the “image” of the gods.:sarcastic

 

[psychoslice]

There are religions who believe their the chosen people of god, there are those who believe all others are dogs, and there are those who believe that all others are infidels, they all believe they have the monopoly on going to heaven, and my question is, who on earth would want to be living their life for eternity with people like that ?.

 

[monti]

There are religions who believe their the chosen people of god, there are those who believe all others are dogs, and there are those who believe that all others are infidels, they all believe they have the monopoly on going to heaven, and my question is, who on earth would want to be living their life for eternity with people like that ?.

Someone who is very delusional,unbalanced, and cannot think any further than what their god dictates, in my opinion.

 

[psychoslice]

Someone who is very delusional,unbalanced, and cannot think any further than what their god dictates, in my opinion.

A strait forward reply, I love it.

 

[Sees]

A strait forward reply, I love it.

Google search Radbod

 

[psychoslice]

Google search Radbod

Na, I don't always trust Google, I do have a life outside of Google you know lol.

 

[Objective Qualia]

Why is it that the religious believer believes they have the monopoly on being the only people who can be kind and benevolent to others?

Some but not all religious people believe they have a monopoly on some good quality because it feels good and appeals to a sort of tribalism. "Only good/smart/happy people are part of my group if you're not a part of it you can't be good/smart/happy."

 

[Sees]

Na, I don't always trust Google, I do have a life outside of Google you know lol.

He is a sort of folk hero amongst us heathen types. What he said as he was about to be baptized served as a model. You would enjoy.

 

[psychoslice]

He is a sort of folk hero amongst us heathen types. What he said as he was about to be baptized served as a model. You would enjoy.

isn't it great to be a heathen, we are so free to be who we are. Oh yea. :tigger: