The Monopoly of Religious Believers

[Breathe]

Because you don't know and were neither expecting nor were you prepared for someone to call your bluff; I know, we covered that already.

Nah, because you've been less than a pleasant person to chat with, and I have no tolerance for ******* contests, any more.

 

[monti]

Of course they did. They're angry and wanted to start a civil war.

indeed in the name of islam. which last time I looked was a religion.

You're clearly British, and you're most probably from a working class city.

Wrong! Big fail!

I could wager the closest thing to religion you've ever encountered is being handed some fliers by a brown man in the [local] city centre, seeing a preacher, and having a missionary knock on your door.

You would lose, another big fail.

How terrifying.

Religion is a terrifying subject.

 

[Breathe]

Wrong! Big fail!

I don't think so.
Are you enjoying Sky broadband?

Religion is a terrifying subject.

You always have /r/atheism.

 

[RabbiO]

Indeed it isn't. Yiddish is a fairly modern language, spoken by European Jews (c 9th century) than the Hebrew language of antiquity. Goy is a Hebrew word used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew.
Goy-im (plural) was also a term used towards Jews (European Jews) who were ignorant of the Jewish scriptures. It was also used towards gentiles who were classed (particularly by the Galilean zealots) as unclean and not worthy of life.
Whichever way or in which context one chooses to use this word it is still in the main a derogatory word usually aimed at none Jews.

I'm sorry if you feel this is derailing the thread, but I cannot allow this to pass without challenge since you plainly are misinformed.

The great prophetic pronouncement that nation shall not lift up sword against nation is in Hebrew, לא ישא גוי אל גוי חרב, which begins "lo yissa goy ayl goy. As the language evolved the word came to mean, in addition and without perjorative intent, a non-Jew. And the word moved into Yiddish, which is primarily a German dialect, with the same meaning.

It is true that some Jews have used the word in a negative way primarily by inserting the word into a conversation otherwise not spoken in Yiddish. I would agree that using the word in that manner is inappropriate and I am quick to rebuke it if it occurs in my presence, but I repeat that your general thesis is just wrong.

Peter

 

[Breathe]

[snip]

This is so true. The word "goy" isn't a pejorative term.
What do you believe contributes to this widely-held misinterpretation of the term?

 

[RabbiO]

This is so true. The word "goy" isn't a pejorative term.
What do you believe contributes to this widely-held misinterpretation of the term?

An interesting question. I think there a couple of factors which maybe I can explore, but Shabbat fast approaches so it will have to wait until Sunday because I do not post on Shabbat.

Peter

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Nah, because you've been less than a pleasant person to chat with, and I have no tolerance for ******* contests, any more.

Or backing up your (clearly false) assertions, apparently.

 

[Breathe]

An interesting question. I think there a couple of factors which maybe I can explore, but Shabbat fast approaches so it will have to wait until Sunday because I do not post on Shabbat.

Nice to see Shabbat being honoured. A few questions [but an easy one ] for when you're back, what denomination of Judaism are you, and are you a rabbi as your username says?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

This is so true. The word "goy" isn't a pejorative term.
What do you believe contributes to this widely-held misinterpretation of the term?

I think that terms can't be perjorative or non-pejorative all by themselves. Only people can be perjorative or non-perjorative.

The N-word, for example, isn't perjorative. I've heard many people use it in the most friendly of ways. (And I would have written it out in full except the forum bleeps it out.)

Same with 'goy.' It depends on the user, not the word.

 

[Breathe]

I think that terms can't be perjorative or non-pejorative all by themselves. Only people can be perjorative or non-perjorative.

The N-word, for example, isn't perjorative. I've heard many people use it in the most friendly of ways. (And I would have written it out in full except the forum bleeps it out.)

Same with 'goy.' It depends on the user, not the word.

Yeah pretty much, but that's to be expected with any "not us" term.

 

[sinner]

"recognize morality when it happens without explicit religious trappings."
- How does one do that? Where does one get their definition of morality? Doesn't history show that morals weren't invented by humans?

"religious believers believe they have the monopoly on being the only people who can be kind and benevolent to others" - They shouldn't & don't...Humans didn't invent love.

"It's not how much Truth you got in your pocket, it's what you do with it." - Ancient Dragonslayer
-And what truths one has in their pocket.

Some of them seem to have sorely underdeveloped morality and sincerely believe that only fear of punishment keeps them somewhat functional."
"underdeveloped morality" is in fact an act of the will-since morals are available, it is a rejection.

"A few seem to actually believe that there is no other reason to even attempt to be moral at all."
-Those are operating in the flesh-like an animal. Animals have no morals.

 

[sinner]

RE: "...religious believe they some how have the monopoly on benevolence...".
-Not so-they believe God has that monopoly, - man's benevolence, ethics,& even love are arbitrary & capricious. Morals didn't evolve, nor develop, they were revealed. Where does the conscience [which everyone has] come from? It didn't evolve-it was put in every human heart-it is not a coincidence that animals don't have one. Note that constant ignoring or violating one's conscience will sear it, & restoration is difficult like overcoming an addiction.

 

[sinner]

"Every person has a god [note the small g] - it is the governing power, or guiding principle of their life.

 

[LuisDantas]

"recognize morality when it happens without explicit religious trappings."
- How does one do that? Where does one get their definition of morality?

By exercising attention, discernment and honesty.

Doesn't history show that morals weren't invented by humans?

Define invention. Morality is a human creation to an extent, but it is also the unavoidable consequence of sentient perception.

(...)

Some of them seem to have sorely underdeveloped morality and sincerely believe that only fear of punishment keeps them somewhat functional."
"underdeveloped morality" is in fact an act of the will-since morals are available, it is a rejection.

That is something I have a hard time picturing anyone as taking seriously. If they gave the matter any thought, at least.

Morality is only available to the extent that one's intelligence and education enables them to.

"A few seem to actually believe that there is no other reason to even attempt to be moral at all."
-Those are operating in the flesh-like an animal. Animals have no morals.

Humans inherently do, though. Confused as it may often be. What is your point here?