"The Mosque at Ground Zero"

[Autodidact]

Of course not dweeb.

Are you not able to discuss something intelligently without resorting to name-calling? Because it gives the impression that you either don't have, or can't make, an actual argument.

Well then what is your point? What is the relevance of your question,

And what if "THEY" are islam?

 

[Majikthise]

Are you not able to discuss something intelligently without resorting to name-calling? Because it gives the impression that you either don't have, or can't make, an actual argument.

Well then what is your point? What is the relevance of your question,

I found your question insulting. It's the kind of thing my 8 year old comes out with. And I already stated my point and did not ask any questions. You mean the stadium thing? I would have thought that would be self explanatory. We detain suspected criminals in gitmo, they stone and behead adulterers and women in public ceremonies. That was my point.

 

[Majikthise]

Who are THEY in the quote? I'm pretty sure it actually refers to the nazis, but who does it represent to you ,now?

 

[Autodidact]

I found your question insulting. It's the kind of thing my 8 year old comes out with. And I already stated my point and did not ask any questions. You mean the stadium thing? I would have thought that would be self explanatory. We detain suspected criminals in gitmo, they stone and behead adulterers and women in public ceremonies. That was my point.

I think I'll wait to discuss with you till you gain some maturity.

 

[Autodidact]

Who are THEY in the quote? I'm pretty sure it actually refers to the nazis, but who does it represent to you ,now?

See post above.

 

[Majikthise]

(sigh) Looks like skins have gotten thinner since I was here last.

G'nite.

 

[beenie]

They are twisting our own laws to use them against us as usual. Why can't we use common sense once in a while instead of bending to every cretin with an agenda and the knowledge to abuse the system? These people (radical muslims ) are, in the end , very simple minded. Denying them this triumph, and they would definitely consider it one, will drive them bonkers and force thier hand. Truely moderate muslims should understand that and not freak out that thier rights are being violated. And, I'm still not ready to count this country out or crap on it to be accepted into the so called main stream.

how so? i do agree that radicals are very simple minded.

I found your question insulting. It's the kind of thing my 8 year old comes out with. And I already stated my point and did not ask any questions. You mean the stadium thing? I would have thought that would be self explanatory. We detain suspected criminals in gitmo, they stone and behead adulterers and women in public ceremonies. That was my point.

who does? clearly not the norm in any country i know. yes, i know it happens, and it is a disgrace to any culture or religion...it should be stopped immediately...but to raise this issue in this thread, why?

(sigh) Looks like skins have gotten thinner since I was here last.

G'nite.

i have pretty thick skin, and i enjoy a respectful dialogue. can we have one?

 

[Smoke]

last I checked, they scrapped this plan in favor of two reflecting pools at ground level and some kind of underground museum thing. Apparently the big glass atrium spire thing was structurally unsound, and the second plan was too close to the road and vulnerable to the simplest of terrorist attacks.

Honestly, I don't think they know what they're doing. You wouldn't believe the difficulty of doing anything at all in New York. Everybody has an opinion, everybody wants a cut or a stake or something. Parts of New York City didn't get cable television for years after my parents had it in rural South Carolina, because of endless squabbling over who can do what where. And when it comes to the World Trade Center site, the squabbling is taken to new heights.

 

[Smoke]

I think that the memorial should be the smoking rubble. Never cover it over and never build on it. Lest ye forget.

That was the plan with the Frauenkirche in Dresden, but eventually people get sick of looking at rubble.

 

[Smoke]

You claim to be so tolerant yet you would ignore civility in dealing with people who don't fit in with your ideals.

I don't "claim to be" tolerant. I am tolerant.

However, that does not mean that I necessarily feel any need to be respectful, civil, patient, friendly, or otherwise personally indulgent of people who are -- frankly -- liars, hypocrites and bigots. I do not pretend to respect people who have forfeited any claim on my respect. I don't recognize any obligation to be civil to people who not only go so very far out of their way to be uncivil, but make great efforts to deprive their fellow Americans of their civil rights. For you to lecture me about the need to be civil to such intolerant morons is absurd.

I don't like Islam. It wouldn't bother me if there was no mosque anywhere in the world. So what? The civil rights and religious freedom of Muslims in America does not depend on my enthusiasm. Civil rights are not just for people you like and whose ideals you feel comfortable endorsing, and anybody who doesn't get that is a threat to everything that's worthwhile about this country. I despise such people and I make no apology for it.

 

[Smoke]

Some people think it's accurate to describe Obama as a Muslim planning to destroy America & enslave us.

If only. That would be easier to deal with.

Your description of Reagan reminds me of that. We should all strive to know the difference between entertaining hyperbole & accurate description.

I don't really care what it reminds you of. Anybody who paid the slightest attention during Reagan's second term could tell he was slipping into his dotage, to put it as politely as possible. The man was not all there. At times he barely seemed aware of where he was. He fell asleep at odd times. His fantasies about his "Star Wars" program compromised his ability to do his job. Point out the inaccuracy of what I said. Did you think he was real cowboy?

 

[Scott C.]

So I just got an ad on Facebook:This is what it means to be a "conservative" in America today: You're actually willing to get yourself all worked up over **** that's not only made up, but is obviously made up. To be a "conservative" in America today is to admit to being dishonest, insane, or both.

The muslims who want to build this would win me over if they declared the building (along with a big plaque on the front door) to be in memory of those who lost their lives at the hands of fanatic religionists, apostates from true Islam. Declare Islam as a religion of peace and express gratitude and allegiance to the United States of America. Have a prayer on the door that all who enter the sanctuary will enter in peace with sorrow for their lost brethren who murdered the innocent.

That would build bridges, heal wounds, and diminish fear and prejudice.

 

[Smoke]

The muslims who want to build this would win me over if they declared the building (along with a big plaque on the front door) to be in memory of those who lost their lives at the hands of fanatic religionists, apostates from true Islam. Declare Islam as a religion of peace and express gratitude and allegiance to the United States of America. Have a prayer on the door that all who enter the sanctuary will enter in peace with sorrow for their lost brethren who murdered the innocent.

That would build bridges, heal wounds, and diminish fear and prejudice.

Why do they have to win you over? What gives you the right to expect that? When the Mormons want to build a temple, do Muslims get to make those kinds of demands and set conditions? Do you not understand what freedom of religion means, or what?

 

[T-Dawg]

It's amazing that Muslims wanting to build their mosque near the World Trade Center rubble would attract any attention. Heck, when I first heard the headlines, I thought they were talking about literally building the mosque in the warzone where people were fighting. But no, "ground zero" turns out to be the site of 9/11, and frankly, the fact that many people oppose the basic right to do what one wishes with private property astounds me.

Radical Christianists are truly taking over America.

Who are THEY in the quote? I'm pretty sure it actually refers to the nazis, but who does it represent to you ,now?

You were implying that because some Muslims wanted to build a mosque, radical Muslims are taking over America and shoving their agenda into our legal system.

You deserve to be laughed at.

I found your question insulting. It's the kind of thing my 8 year old comes out with. And I already stated my point and did not ask any questions. You mean the stadium thing? I would have thought that would be self explanatory. We detain suspected criminals in gitmo, they stone and behead adulterers and women in public ceremonies. That was my point.

And you're point is bigoted and not worth even responding to, were it not for the fact that enough people take it seriously enough to be considered.
What do you not understand about the fact that these are not radical Muslims building the mosque, that it is well within their rights to build a mosque on their own damn property, and that painting all Muslims as barbarians who stone and behead people is just plain bigoted?

The welfare state and it's subsequent entitlement mentality have ruined it for the middle class. The rich who spend ridculous amounts of money at my JOB for me to service thier yachts keep the economy going. And a lot of them are democrats.Very rich democrats.

The welfare state ruined the middle class? The rich spend most of their money on providing us jobs (you didn't say this directly, but it was implied)? A lot of yacht-owners are rich democrats? I see strawmen and lies. I don't even know where you pull these ridiculous claims from.

They are twisting our own laws to use them against us as usual. Why can't we use common sense once in a while instead of bending to every cretin with an agenda and the knowledge to abuse the system? These people (radical muslims ) are, in the end , very simple minded. Denying them this triumph, and they would definitely consider it one, will drive them bonkers and force thier hand. Truely moderate muslims should understand that and not freak out that thier rights are being violated. And, I'm still not ready to count this country out or crap on it to be accepted into the so called main stream.

Moderate Muslims want to build a mosque, which means that radical Muslims are taking over our country and twisting our laws to do... something evil, apparently. Your claims are baseless and just plain bigoted.

Of course not dweeb.

Well gee, aren't you mature.

 

[Scott C.]

Why do they have to win you over? What gives you the right to expect that? When the Mormons want to build a temple, do Muslims get to make those kinds of demands and set conditions? Do you not understand what freedom of religion means, or what?

I'm not addressing legal rights here. I'm talking about common sense bridge building.

 

[T-Dawg]

I'm not addressing legal rights here. I'm talking about common sense bridge building.

How do Muslims wanting to build a mosque on their property contradict common sense?

 

[Sunstone]

They are twisting our own laws to use them against us as usual. Why can't we use common sense once in a while instead of bending to every cretin with an agenda and the knowledge to abuse the system? These people (radical muslims ) are, in the end , very simple minded. Denying them this triumph, and they would definitely consider it one, will drive them bonkers and force thier hand. Truely moderate muslims should understand that and not freak out that thier rights are being violated. And, I'm still not ready to count this country out or crap on it to be accepted into the so called main stream.

Your so called "common sense" is exactly the same thing as giving Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban what they want.

 

[Copernicus]

They are twisting our own laws to use them against us as usual. Why can't we use common sense once in a while instead of bending to every cretin with an agenda and the knowledge to abuse the system? These people (radical muslims ) are, in the end , very simple minded. Denying them this triumph, and they would definitely consider it one, will drive them bonkers and force thier hand. Truely moderate muslims should understand that and not freak out that thier rights are being violated. And, I'm still not ready to count this country out or crap on it to be accepted into the so called main stream.

This has nothing to do with the very moderate Muslims who are sponsoring this Muslim center. They are not the radicals, yet you paint them with the same broad brush. We should be encouraging moderate Muslims, not insulting them by denying them their basic rights.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not addressing legal rights here. I'm talking about common sense bridge building.

Oh, okay. Just like the way Mormons have a prayer on the doors of their temples that all who enter will enter in peace and sadness for their lost brethren, apostates from true Christianity, who murdered the innocent at Mountain Meadows. Right?

Just like the way every Mormon temple has a plaque honoring those who had their civil rights taken away by Mormons in 2008. Just common sense bridge building.

 

[Autodidact]

The muslims who want to build this would win me over if they declared the building (along with a big plaque on the front door) to be in memory of those who lost their lives at the hands of fanatic religionists, apostates from true Islam. Declare Islam as a religion of peace and express gratitude and allegiance to the United States of America. Have a prayer on the door that all who enter the sanctuary will enter in peace with sorrow for their lost brethren who murdered the innocent.

That would build bridges, heal wounds, and diminish fear and prejudice.

My question is, why would they need to win you over? Why should have a word to say about this community center? What business is it of yours? Don't you believe in private property and freedom of religion? How did it become your business where these people build their community center? Should you have to win me over before you join with your neighbors to build a church? Because if so, I have some suggestions as to how you could win me, an atheist, over.