The movement of the earth in Qur'an

[FearGod]

You only read what you want, do you?

There used to be 2 eons, but now there are 4 eons. You are using outdated geochronology (or geological time scale).

The old Precambrian eon has been divided into 3 separate eons.

1. 1. Hadean
   2. Archean
   3. Proterozoic

The Phanerozoic makes 4.

And there are 2 geological time scales, which geologists used:

1. Geochronology
2. Chronostratigraphy

Where the geochronology uses eon, era, period, epoch, age and chron, chronostratigraphy uses the corresponding eonothem, erathem, system, series, stage and chronozone instead.

In both eon and eonthem, they exactly same names, and there are 4 of them:

1. Hadean
2. Archean
3. Proterozoic
4. Phanerozoic

You really should keep up to date on stratigraphy.

And in the Big Bang theory, there are lot more than 6 epochs. Eric J Chaisson only listed 6, but there are lot more going on than 6 epochs. There are dozen-and-half epochs.

Again, you really should read more than one (and current) source on the Big Bang model.

These are the earliest epochs after the Big Bang:

1. Plank's epoch
2. Grand Unification epoch
3. Electroweak epoch
4. Inflationary epoch
5. Baryogenesis

The following epochs are what are how matters were form, but before theformation of the 1st stars:

1. Electroweak Supersymmetry Breaking and Quark epoch (began about the same time).
2. Hadron epoch
3. Lepton epoch (1 to 10 seconds after the Big Bang)
4. Photon epoch (duration from 10 seconds to 388,000 years after the Big Bang)
5. Nucleosynthesis (last from 3 minutes to 20 minutes after BB; hydrogen and helium nuclei were formed into hydrogen ions and helium ions, with no electrons)
6. Recombination (after 377,000, hydrogen and helium ions began capturing electrons, creating stable (neutral) atoms, hydrogen and helium elements.)
7. Hydrogen Line (or Dark Ages)
8. Structure Formation (hydrogen element began gathering together by gravity into small and large structures, this occurred before gravitational collapse cause the first stars.)
9. Reionization
10. Stellar Formation (first stars were called Population III; at the beginning, there were no element heavier than beryllium; they are stars with very low metallicity. Only after these Population III stars ended by supernovae, did heavier elements were introduced into the universe. Other Population III stars that were too massive to explode as supernovae, collapsed and formed into black holes.)
11. Formation of galaxies (This didn't occur until after new stars were formed from Population III stars; these stars are listed as Population II stars.)
12. Our solar system were formed 9 billion years later, from materials of past supernovae. Our sun is 3rd or 4th generation star, and grouped as one of Population I stars, stars with the highest metallicity.

As you can see there are more than 6 epochs, and Chaisson had only listed 6 epochs.

You missed the Vacuum epoch, that was before the singularity.

 

[FearGod]

Union, Chaisson may have only listed 6 main epochs, but that doesn't mean a dozen (if not more) epochs exist.

Chaisson didn't get rid of the other epochs in the Big Bang theory, he just simplified it with only naming 6, but there are 18 (or more) epochs.

And there 4 eons, not 2 for the geological time scales.

And if the quran says it was 4 then you'll find who says it's 6 or 12 or you may say it was 2 and not 4.

 

[Augustus]

And if the quran says it was 4 then you'll find who says it's 6 or 12 or you may say it was 2 and not 4.

Haha, the irony of this post is off the scale

 

[dust1n]

Why are Muslim experts who translate Islamic texts so bad at translating Islamic texts that random people on the internet can easily point out their elementary mistakes?

My guess would that it's a.) incredibly hard to translate accurately and b.) the people on the internet easily pointing out elementary stakes are not likely to be much more knowledgeable about the subject than those who study translation academically.

 

[dust1n]

Yes i know, but how evolution have to fix it, why we are programmed to die at specific age according to your understanding of evolution.

Nothing is programmed to die at a specific age.

 

[FearGod]

Haha, the irony of this post is off the scale

Not as much as yours, or maybe you don't know what is the meaning of broad sense, my bro Union tried to explain it to you by the example small boxes in one large box, but still not understood to you, one of my favorite proverb says "you can't fix stupidity"

 

[dust1n]

39:5
He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He folds up the day over the night and folds up the night over the day. He has subjected the sun and the moon (for humans).
All of them are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving.

It is clear and doesn't need any interpretation.

Ah, if only he could of wrote down:

That would of have been a bit more impressive.

 

[gnostic]

You missed the Vacuum epoch, that was before the singularity.

The Big Bang theory really only cover from the start of the the expansion, or the "Big Bang", which mean from zero second, then onward.

Anything before the start of the Big Bang is not part of the theory. So the singularity, or your claim of - "before the singularity" or "Vacuum epoch" - is not something part of the BB model.

Btw, I have never heard of the "Vacuum epoch". Which cosmologist(s) talk of "Vacuum epoch"? Sources, please?

 

[Shad]

Not as much as yours, or maybe you don't know what is the meaning of broad sense, my bro Union tried to explain it to you by the example small boxes in one large box, but still not understood to you, one of my favorite proverb says "you can't fix stupidity"

Say that when you do not link a picture with 8 identified timespans

 

[FearGod]

The Big Bang theory really only cover from the start of the the expansion, or the "Big Bang", which mean from zero second, then onward.

Anything before the start of the Big Bang is not part of the theory. So the singularity, or your claim of - "before the singularity" or "Vacuum epoch" - is not something part of the BB model.

Btw, I have never heard of the "Vacuum epoch". Which cosmologist(s) talk of "Vacuum epoch"? Sources, please?

OK, let me explain it to you in simple words.

I assume you know the balloon analogy for explaining how the universe expanded, scientists think that the space existed before the inflation, similar to the space inside the balloon which existed before expanding, they called it the false vacuum and some scientists believe that we're still living in the false vacuum.

Don't ask me for sources, search it yourself.

 

[Shad]

You mean the Quantum Vacuum? If so you should study the idea as it is a naturalistic explanation for the universe which involves no God while also pointing out God is unnecessary. It is not the type of idea you want to use in support of God.

 

[Aquitaine]

If scientists made a new discovery that the Universe was actually 20 billion years old, some creationists would twist interpretations of their scripture to match it and claim it as "divine scientific truth".

If scientists made an even newer discovery that the Universe is only 10 billion years old, some creationists would twist interpretations of their scripture to match it and claim it as "divine scientific truth".

In my experience, out of all the Abrahamic faiths, Islam seems to be the biggest culprit in this regard. I think it would benefit everyone if these Muslims would just stop clutching at straws and admit that the Koran is a religious book (requiring faith) rather than a scientific one (requiring evidence).

 

[mojtaba]

If scientists made a new discovery that the Universe was actually 20 billion years old, some creationists would twist interpretations of their scripture to match it and claim it as "divine scientific truth".

If scientists made an even newer discovery that the Universe is only 10 billion years old, some creationists would twist interpretations of their scripture to match it and claim it as "divine scientific truth".

In my experience, out of all the Abrahamic faiths, Islam seems to be the biggest culprit in this regard. I think it would benefit everyone if these Muslims would just stop clutching at straws and admit that the Koran is a religious book (requiring faith) rather than a scientific one (requiring evidence).

Yes. We believe that Quran is not a scientific book, but has scientific verses. Qur'an is a book for humans to know that 1. Why they are created 2. Where they are within 3. What they have to do 4. Where they go after death and how it is.
But Qura'n has scientefic verses to indicate that this book wasn't written by a man.
In the time of the Descent of the Qur'an, it was accepted that the Earth and some stars are fixed and other heavenly bodies are moving around the Earth. But Holy Qur'an has said that the Earth and other heavenly bodies are moving until apocalypse.
39:5 " He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He causes the night to flow into the day, and causes the day to flow into the night. He has subjugated the sun and the moon (for humans). All of them(heavens, the Earth, the sun and the moon) are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving. "

 

[gnostic]

OK, let me explain it to you in simple words.

I assume you know the balloon example for explaining how the universe expanded, scientists think that the space existed before the inflation,similar to the space inside the balloon which existed before expanding, they called it the false vacuum and some scientists believe that we're still living in the false vacuum.

Yes, I know the balloon analogy, and it is about the expanding universe (or the Big Bang model).

The balloon analogy is not about what is inside of the balloon "expanding", but what's on the outside of the balloon that's "expanding".

I seriously think you are missing the point with balloon analogy.

In the analogy, you would mark 2 or more dots with pen on the deflated balloon. Just imagine those dots represent galaxies. As you inflate the balloon, you will observe the balloon stretch, and can see the dots seemingly moving further and further away from each other. So the bigger the balloon get, the further away the dots from each other's.

It's not the air expanding inside that's important in the analogy, but what you can observe the balloon from the outside.

This analogy show the "expanding" of space between the dots, hence on the surface of the balloon, not the air inside of the balloon. And this analogy is likened to galaxies and other intergalactic or interstellar objects moving away from each other's.

 

[FearGod]

Yes, I know the balloon analogy, and it is about the expanding universe (or the Big Bang model).

The balloon analogy is not about what is inside of the balloon "expanding", but what's on the outside of the balloon that's "expanding".

I seriously think you are missing the point with balloon analogy.

In the analogy, you would mark 2 or more dots with pen on the deflated balloon. Just imagine those dots represent galaxies. As you inflate the balloon, you will observe the balloon stretch, and can see the dots seemingly moving further and further away from each other. So the bigger the balloon get, the further away the dots from each other's.

It's not the air expanding inside that's important in the analogy, but what you can observe the balloon from the outside.

This analogy show the "expanding" of space between the dots, hence on the surface of the balloon, not the air inside of the balloon. And this analogy is likened to galaxies and other intergalactic or interstellar objects moving away from each other's.

OMG, of course all objects are moving away at the surface of the balloon because the space inside the balloon is expanding and hence the space get larger and larger.
You can imagine our space as being a dot, and the dot (space) inflated once the big bang started, we don't know actually what is beyond our universe or what kind of reality it is,IOW we don't know where it is expanding to and what is the outside of our space.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes. We believe that Quran is not a scientific book, but has scientific verses. Qur'an is a book for humans to know that 1. Why they are created 2. Where they are within 3. What they have to do 4. Where they go after death and how it is.
But Qura'n has scientefic verses to indicate that this book wasn't written by a man.
In the time of the Descent of the Qur'an, it was accepted that the Earth and some stars are fixed and other heavenly bodies are moving around the Earth. But Holy Qur'an has said that the Earth and other heavenly bodies are moving until apocalypse.
39:5 " He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He causes the night to flow into the day, and causes the day to flow into the night. He has subjugated the sun and the moon (for humans). All of them(heavens, the Earth, the sun and the moon) are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving. "

No offense, but there is nothing ground-breaking or scientific in that vaguely written verse. There are plenty of societies throughout history who also made astronomical observations similar to this.

This verse basically just indicates that the author observed day and night cycles. Any human can do that.

 

[Shad]

Yes. We believe that Quran is not a scientific book, but has scientific verses. Qur'an is a book for humans to know that 1. Why they are created 2. Where they are within 3. What they have to do 4. Where they go after death and how it is.
But Qura'n has scientefic verses to indicate that this book wasn't written by a man.
In the time of the Descent of the Qur'an, it was accepted that the Earth and some stars are fixed and other heavenly bodies are moving around the Earth. But Holy Qur'an has said that the Earth and other heavenly bodies are moving until apocalypse.
39:5 " He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He causes the night to flow into the day, and causes the day to flow into the night. He has subjugated the sun and the moon (for humans). All of them(heavens, the Earth, the sun and the moon) are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving. "

When part of the verse is in brackets this is translator commentary, it is the author's addition to the verse rather than part of the verse itself. Other translations do not include all but rather each right after the parameters Sun and Moon. Also Quran dictionaries have it as each not all. You are taking commentary as the whole verse which is not correct.

 

[gnostic]

OMG, of course all objects are moving away at the surface of the balloon because the space inside the balloon is expanding and hence the space get larger and larger.
You can imagine our space as being a dot, and the dot (space) inflated once the big bang started, we don't know actually what is beyond our universe or what kind of reality it is,IOW we don't know where it is expanding to and what is the outside of our space.

You still don't understand the analogy.

The marked dots were meant to represent galaxies (or even stars). The "space" is everything else on the balloon not marked. As you blow into the balloon, the "space" expand all around the balloon.

They weren't talking about inside the balloon - the air inside. but the surface of the balloon.

What the balloon was meant to represent is the represent is the expanding universe, to answer the question of where the centre of the universe is.

The deflated balloon is meant to represent the universe before the Big Bang - the singularity. This singularity is supposed to be the centre of the universe. Blowing the balloon, the balloon itself (not the air inside of the balloon) was meant to represent the universe expanding. The balloon being inflated is to show the expanding the universe, both space and time expanding with the universe. Matters within the expanding the universe is moving with space.

The answer to the question of "where the centre of the universe is (now)?" - is that the "centre" is everywhere. Meaning the "centre of the universe"

1. BEFORE - The deflated balloon is the centre of the universe.
2. AFTER - The inflated balloon is the centre of the universe.

The balloon is not talking about inside the balloon being the centre of the expanding universe, but the whole balloon being the centre.

Everywhere we look, out in space, using the our eyes or telescopes, show the centre of the universe is everywhere. The entire universe is the centre.

Sorry, but I understand the balloon analogy, you certainly don't understand it.

 

[FearGod]

You still don't understand the analogy.

The marked dots were meant to represent galaxies (or even stars). The "space" is everything else on the balloon not marked. As you blow into the balloon, the "space" expand all around the balloon.

They weren't talking about inside the balloon - the air inside. but the surface of the balloon.

What the balloon was meant to represent is the represent is the expanding universe, to answer the question of where the centre of the universe is.

The deflated balloon is meant to represent the universe before the Big Bang - the singularity. This singularity is supposed to be the centre of the universe. Blowing the balloon, the balloon itself (not the air inside of the balloon) was meant to represent the universe expanding. The balloon being inflated is to show the expanding the universe, both space and time expanding with the universe. Matters within the expanding the universe is moving with space.

The answer to the question of "where the centre of the universe is (now)?" - is that the "centre" is everywhere. Meaning the "centre of the universe"

1. BEFORE - The deflated balloon is the centre of the universe.
2. AFTER - The inflated balloon is the centre of the universe.

The balloon is not talking about inside the balloon being the centre of the expanding universe, but the whole balloon being the centre.

Everywhere we look, out in space, using the our eyes or telescopes, show the centre of the universe is everywhere. The entire universe is the centre.

Sorry, but I understand the balloon analogy, you certainly don't understand it.

Can't you realize how the space expands and how all galaxies are moving away in all directions with no known center due to the expansion of the space in all directions as shown in the picture.

 

[gnostic]

Maybe I am not explaining the analogy to you clearly.

I am not trying to mislead you or anything. I just don't think you really comprehend the balloon analogy.

So here, FearGod, is a link to the "Centre of the Universe" and balloon analogy. Maybe you will understand when you read this webpage:

Where is the centre of the universe?​