The myriad proofs for the exsitence of God

[zackcool]

But by awarding attributes to yourself it would appear that we're back to human vanity once more.

That is precisely why i use the word "you'll find yourself to be"
Its a journey to self discovery.,nothing of the vanity kind.

The fact is we see no evidence of believers being more patient, loving, caring, calmer etc. I'm frequently told by angry believers that I'm stubbornly blind and will suffer for not 'opening my heart' and seeking God, which sort of contradicts any intended benevolence.

That is precisely why self discovery is much needed on this mother earth.(not just believing)
Lets ponder on a "nail" for an instance..
To some ,it is a sharp object that can cause utmost injuries,and if rusty,can even cause death..(This are those that says all the bad things about you,believing only they are right)
To a carpenter, a nail is of utmost importance,it helps him in building houses and at times forget about it's possible danger.(This are those that see you as being true to yourself and support your cause and see no fault in you)
And there are those that realise the importance of a nail ,but are also aware of its danger...
Point being,just b'cause someone follows and believed in a specific God or religion,it does not give them the right to judge others...(regardless)
And just b'cause you don't see evidence of believers being more patient, loving, caring, calmer does not mean that there is non...
Balance is the key and non-judgemental is the secret...

 

[zackcool]

Ego...
Do you realised that there is this little voice in your head that speaks to you ever so often,
Infact as you are reading this thread,it is making judgmental comments, preparing you for rebuttal...
Well this little voice can have huge implications in your life.This voice while some believe is the"I" and some the"self" is truely the ego...
This voice says only bad things an if it consumes you,it becomes you...
This are the reasons why people commit suicides,murders.....
Their supposed voice of reason compels them,and only after the damage is done,will they realize the stupidity of their actions.(i did'nt mean to do it.)
Try this for an instance,,,
Close your eyes and do some deep breathing,,
Now imagine you stepping out of your body.
Now look at the location where the supposed voice of reason is coming from...
Do you realise something...
The voice stays quite,it refuse to talk...
By simply being aware of its presence,you can suppress it.
That's part of the reason why some people meditates and do spiritual chants...
Please dont get confuse between the ego and the "I"...

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

So, I look within myself, study my perceptions and then balance and adjust them in the light of worldly knowledge? But I thought that's what I'd been doing all along!
:thud:

I would also add that you should relieve yourself of any expectations.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings.
As intended here, the True Self transcends the individual ego and is one with or in unity with all others. There is no ego orientation to escalate with vanity or by diminishing the status of others.
With regard to responses to the other questions raised one must bow to the wisdom of Willamena, Sojourner, Zackcool and Anti-thesisofreason.
Regards,
a.1

 

[Thief]

"I"'m not buying that either.
If the portion of 'you' reading this fails to 'crossover'...
then indeed, contention...and conversation.... will fail.

It is the differences between one soul and the other that make life interesting.
If we shared a common consciousness....one mind, one soul....then the individual that you are, could not exist.
All questions, would all be answered, in exactly the same way.

It may seem odd at this moment....but what you don't know is what makes you the person you are. Gaining all knowledge...would make you identical to the next soul...and the next...etc.etc.etc.
That would negate the life you are now living.
There's no point or purpose in unique experience of life...if only to lose it when you die.

Sure you can go back to God.
Blend right in...as if you were never born.
But having done so...'you' are no more...and that would be forever.
Being one with God...takes away the one 'you' are.

 

[Willamena]

"Crossover" to where/what?

 

[McBell]

"Crossover" to where/what?

The "other" side.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

The "other" side.

Rod Serling time.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Rod Serling time.

Or Jim Morrison.

 

[autonomous1one1]

[FONT=&quot]Greetings my friend, Thief. Thank you for your interesting comments. [/FONT]

"I"'m not buying that either.
If the portion of 'you' reading this fails to 'crossover'...
then indeed, contention...and conversation.... will fail.

It is the differences between one soul and the other that make life interesting.
If we shared a common consciousness....one mind, one soul....then the individual that you are, could not exist.
All questions, would all be answered, in exactly the same way.

[FONT=&quot]Yes, wouldn’t that be boring if we were all exactly the same. Fortunately, realization of the TrueSelf returns individuality to the ‘UniqueSelf’ many fold with much greater degrees of freedom. We might consider the perspective to be rather inverted, however. Instead of a finite being living within infinite space and time, the view is of an infinite being participating in finitude through human awareness. [/FONT]

It may seem odd at this moment....but what you don't know is what makes you the person you are. Gaining all knowledge...would make you identical to the next soul...and the next...etc.etc.etc.
That would negate the life you are now living......

[FONT=&quot]The meaning of your comment here is not quite understood, Thief, but let the following be offered which is often overlooked. Being of the TrueSelf maintains previous perspectives and can live and communicate from a conventional perspective for the sake of others just as we are doing right now. [/FONT]

Regards,
a..1

 

[Thief]

It seems a bit more is needed.

First of all, I'm working from the notion there is a God.....
And then...there is purpose for the many occasions of individuals on this planet.

Some people call for evidence....continually.
But there is evidence...continually....your fellow man.
With each one of us, comes the possibility of an entity that might 'crossover' .....into the next life.
At the moment, 6billion possibilities.

God is spirit. The Sons of God are spirit.
This life was made..... to form Man in the image of God.
But the image is spiritual.
And not intended to be carbon copies. (please note the intended pun).

 

[cottage]

That is precisely why i use the word "you'll find yourself to be"
Its a journey to self discovery.,nothing of the vanity kind.

That is precisely why self discovery is much needed on this mother earth.(not just believing)
Lets ponder on a "nail" for an instance..
To some ,it is a sharp object that can cause utmost injuries,and if rusty,can even cause death..(This are those that says all the bad things about you,believing only they are right)
To a carpenter, a nail is of utmost importance,it helps him in building houses and at times forget about it's possible danger.(This are those that see you as being true to yourself and support your cause and see no fault in you)
And there are those that realise the importance of a nail ,but are also aware of its danger...
Point being,just b'cause someone follows and believed in a specific God or religion,it does not give them the right to judge others...(regardless)
And just b'cause you don't see evidence of believers being more patient, loving, caring, calmer does not mean that there is non...
Balance is the key and non-judgemental is the secret...

I'm sorry but none of this gets away from the fact of human vanity, and it is the very belief that we are so much more than what we are that confirms that conclusion.

The argument wants to say there is something special and unique about the human condition, which exists and is there for the seeking. There is no evidence at all to confirm or suggest this is true. And I'm afraid it doesn't stop there, but wants to go further by implying that some kind of superiority or greater moral worth is to be found by this self-discovery. And guess who will be instructing us in us in this spiritual adventure. Yes, it will be the Enlightened ones, who graciously pass on (pass down) their superior understanding to those who have not yet attained such great heights.

 

[zackcool]

Hi all,

The argument wants to say there is something special and unique about the human condition, which exists and is there for the seeking.

Ponder on this for an instance,
1) a man passed by a beggar and show an act of disgust...
2) a man passed by a beggar and act as if the beggar did'nt exist...
3) a man passed by a beggar ,open his wallet saw a hundred dollars,shuts it close and give the beggar left over coins from his pocket,,,
4)a man passed by a beggar found that he got 2 dollars left (to buy food),
but gave it all ,believing that the beggar needs it more than him,,,,
Which do you prefer to be???
The last man might not have made the beggar rich,but he does somewhat relieve the beggar plight for a moment an perhaps, instill the believe that there is still hope for a better tomorrow ,,,
Now if the last man is showing an act of vanity,so be it,
For this type of vanity is much required on this mother Earth...
Do something good for others and as far as possible do it secretly,
for if the good is not accredited to you by others,the ego is nullified..
and what is left is the enrichment of the"I"...
Be very greatfull that you can still do good to others,,,
reflect...


Be very greatfull,that we are still able to help others that are in need,

 

[Willamena]

I'm sorry but none of this gets away from the fact of human vanity, and it is the very belief that we are so much more than what we are that confirms that conclusion.

The argument wants to say there is something special and unique about the human condition, which exists and is there for the seeking. There is no evidence at all to confirm or suggest this is true. And I'm afraid it doesn't stop there, but wants to go further by implying that some kind of superiority or greater moral worth is to be found by this self-discovery. And guess who will be instructing us in us in this spiritual adventure. Yes, it will be the Enlightened ones, who graciously pass on (pass down) their superior understanding to those who have not yet attained such great heights.

The argument says that to you. You take from it the message that you can't have this thing you think others have and you don't. But you have it, you don't lack for it, it is the human condition; you have but to realize it to know that it was there all along. There is nothing superior in knowing yourself.

"Humble" is knowing that we know nothing, and in knowing nothing we exist everyday in the world in faith. "Vain" is believing that we know the everyday world and that our existence in it is certain. There is a point of view from which believing that that everyday existence is all we are is believing that we are so much more than what we are.

 

[cottage]

The argument says that to you. You take from it the message that you can't have this thing you think others have and you don't. But you have it, you don't lack for it, it is the human condition; you have but to realize it to know that it was there all along. There is nothing superior in knowing yourself.

"Humble" is knowing that we know nothing, and in knowing nothing we exist everyday in the world in faith. "Vain" is believing that we know the everyday world and that our existence in it is certain. There is a point of view from which believing that that everyday existence is all we are is believing that we are so much more than what we are.

I see vanity in the self, and not referring to a supposed, mysterious and ethereal entity, or a state of unconscious perfection to be attained, but the fact that there is nothing we do that doesn't have a selfish element or a selfish motivation. We are necessarily selfish creatures and the view that we are so much more than we are exemplifies the exaggerated self-regard.

 

[Willamena]

I see vanity in the self, and not referring to a supposed, mysterious and ethereal entity, or a state of unconscious perfection to be attained, but the fact that there is nothing we do that doesn't have a selfish element or a selfish motivation. We are necessarily selfish creatures and the view that we are so much more than we are exemplifies the exaggerated self-regard.

I take it you've never heard of Buddhism.

 

[autonomous1one1]

I see vanity in the self, and not referring to a supposed, mysterious and ethereal entity, or a state of unconscious perfection to be attained, but the fact that there is nothing we do that doesn't have a selfish element or a selfish motivation. We are necessarily selfish creatures and the view that we are so much more than we are exemplifies the exaggerated self-regard.

Greetings Cottage. We must not have explained our view very clearly for it seems that you interpret us to be aggrandizing the self - 'exaggerating self-regard.' What we intend to convey is something quite different - transcendence of the self. The being moves into selflessness, not selfishness. Or, perhaps your view has been misinterpreted?
Regards

 

[cottage]

I take it you've never heard of Buddhism.

What an odd thing to say!

 

[cottage]

Greetings Cottage. We must not have explained our view very clearly for it seems that you interpret us to be aggrandizing the self - 'exaggerating self-regard.' What we intend to convey is something quite different - transcendence of the self. The being moves into selflessness, not selfishness. Or, perhaps your view has been misinterpreted?
Regards

Yes, I quite understand what it is you are saying. What I am saying is that there is no such thing as selflessness. If there is, then please provide an example.

 

[McBell]

Yes, I quite understand what it is you are saying. What I am saying is that there is no such thing as selflessness. If there is, then please provide an example.

OKARA, June 7: An aged man lost his life by diving in front of a train to save a child here on Saturday night.

Reports said a child was crossing the track opposite the Sheikh Basti area ignorant of the train coming towards him. An aged man, who was standing there, dived and threw the child, but himself was crushed.
http://www.dawn.com/2003/06/08/nat24.htm
​

A few other examples:
Police identify Detroit man who died while saving drowning boy - Topix

Man Dies Saving Friend's Child From Drowning - wcbstv.com

Man Dies After Saving Two Boys From Near Drowning