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The Mystery Thread

Given what you outlined and declared to be "doing science", I suggest you look again.


It's simple....science is not looking at things, concluding that since they look like X they must therefore be X, and then after studying those things declaring that you've studied X.

Why is that NOT science? Tell me why? That sounds good to me. Why is that a bad thing?

If you still think that's how science operates, then you need to provide an example of a field of science operating that way (and by "provide an example" I mean a direct example, not some third party bystander's account).

https://www.google.com/search?q=sci...09521614&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=eMB9d0g8JVxp1M

This is the scientific method chart, right?

Ask a question: is the universe made by chance-time? Or is it made by a designer?

Do backround research: read both views. Read prior peoples work. Do direct research by looking to see if design is there or not.

Construct a hypothesis: in this case, my hypothesis is that intelligent design exists in our world.

Test with an experiment: experiment is finding patterns and learning the purpose and functions of the many parts that make up species.

Procedure working?: YES

Anylize data and draw conclusion: look at how all the functions of our bodies work, the purpose of each part and what it does. Do the same for bugs and plants and animals and earths processes, ect.

Results align with hypotheses or not?: results in this case DO align with the hypotheses.

Communicate results: in the case of intelligent design; there has been scientists that propose ID that have submitted it for peer review. So....peer review was done for ID. This means it has been communicated.

So, i have shown based on the scientific method, step by step that intelligent design IS a valid scientific theory that has evidence for it and is scientific.
 
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Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Why is that NOT science? Tell me why? That sounds good to me. Why is that a bad thing?



https://www.google.com/search?q=sci...09521614&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=eMB9d0g8JVxp1M

This is the scientific method chart, right?

Ask a question: is the universe made by chance-time? Or is it made by a designer?

Do backround research: read both views. Read prior peoples work. Do direct research by looking to see if design is there or not.

Construct a hypothesis: in this case, my hypothesis is that intelligent design exists in our world.

Test with an experiment: experiment is finding patterns and learning the purpose and functions of the many parts that make up species.

Procedure working?: YES

Anylize data and draw conclusion: look at how all the functions of our bodies work, the purpose of each part and what it does. Do the same for bugs and plants and animals and earths processes, ect.

Results align with hypotheses or not?: results in this case DO align with the hypotheses.

Communicate results: in the case of intelligent design; there has been scientists that propose ID that have submitted it for peer review. So....peer review was done for ID. This means it has been communicated.

So, i have shown based on the scientific method, step by step that intelligent design IS a valid scientific theory that has evidence for it and is scientific.
Wow! Did you come up with this all on your own?

I've taught at universities and trying to teach something this inane would have gotten me fired. I suppose it was my ethics that kept me in line.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Given what you outlined and declared to be "doing science", I suggest you look again.


It's simple....science is not looking at things, concluding that since they look like X they must therefore be X, and then after studying those things declaring that you've studied X.

If you still think that's how science operates, then you need to provide an example of a field of science operating that way (and by "provide an example" I mean a direct example, not some third party bystander's account).
If all it takes is a declaration, we should declare something and "poof" it will be so. I am the King of America. LOL!
 
Different question. It could be designed, but there is no evidence that it is.

How COULD it be designed IF there is no evidence that it is?

By this your saying something this big can be true without a shred of evidence.

How can you say this?

Wow! Did you come up with this all on your own?

Yes, whats wrong with it?

I've taught at universities and trying to teach something this inane would have gotten me fired. I suppose it was my ethics that kept me in line.

Why is what i said inane?

And my ethics are just fine, so if i wer teaching at the university, my ethics would have gotten me fired. Good thing.

Sometimes one needs to exercise courage against the power structure that is simply wrong.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Take it easy. Take it slow. No fuss.

First question. Is it okay for me to reject evolution while accepting other tenets of science?


How about this: God has two choices. Choice 1. Poof creation. God does it all. No one can learn anything. Choice 2. Create everything to unfold and expand in such a way that everything can be discovered and learned. There would be a million lessons of knowledge to be discovered. Would not evolution fit into an unfolding universe from an highly intelligent level?

If you really cared about your children, which would you choose? Keep them stupid or Teach them everything?

As always, the answers stare us all in the face.
 

Earthling

David Henson
How about this: God has two choices. Choice 1. Poof creation. God does it all. No one can learn anything. Choice 2. Create everything to unfold and expand in such a way that everything can be discovered and learned. There would be a million lessons of knowledge to be discovered. Would not evolution fit into an unfolding universe from an highly intelligent level?

If you really cared about your children, which would you choose? Keep them stupid or Teach them everything?

As always, the answers stare us all in the face.

If you know your Bible well you know that God created Michael first and then he created everything else; the spiritual heavens, the "angels," the physical heavens, including earth, and then he made the earth habitable for life, and finally creating all plants, creatures and mankind on earth.

The angles had a great deal of time to mature, intellectually and otherwise. Then mankind were afforded a great period of time in which they too, could mature likewise.

True Bible believers don't need evolution to rationalize their intelligence level.
 
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Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
If you know your Bible well you know that God created Michael first and then he created everything else; the spiritual heavens, the "angels," the physical heavens, including earth, and then he made the earth habitable for life, and finally creating all plants, creatures and mankind on earth.

The angles had a great deal of time to mature, intellectually and otherwise. The mankind were afforded a great period of time in which they too, could mature likewise.

True Bible believers don't need evolution to rationalize their intelligence level.
Do you have to believe every word of the Bible is true in order to be a Christian? I do not recall Christ mentioning that, but hey, I am not a true Bible believer I guess.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
How COULD it be designed IF there is no evidence that it is?
Since everything exists and there is no evidence of design, it must be. Anyway, your laughable attempt at straw man scientific methodology does not provide any reason to consider design to be any more than the religion that it is.

By this your saying something this big can be true without a shred of evidence.
I am saying that you have not been able to demonstrate the existence of design in nature or the existence of a designer.
How can you say this?
Because there is no evidence for it.




This is the scientific method chart, right?

Ask a question: is the universe made by chance-time? Or is it made by a designer?
What is chance-time? Is this what scientists are really saying? Where are your references supporting this as a valid question. If you cannot show a designer, how can you ask questions about one?

Do backround research:
read both views. Read prior peoples work.
What work would that be? There is no scientific work in ID.

Do direct research by looking to see if design is there or not.
What is your basis for determining the presence of design? Is it all just a circular argument or have you been holding out on us?

Construct a hypothesis:
in this case, my hypothesis is that intelligent design exists in our world.
That is pretty tall order and so far, you have nothing. Why don't you think about it and maybe scale it down a bit to something you can demonstrate.

Test with an experiment:
experiment is finding patterns and learning the purpose and functions of the many parts that make up species.
This would tell you something about the patterns and functions of whatever a part is that makes up a species. How would this show design. I am not seeing it.

Are you suggesting we test God?

Maybe you should define a little more closely what you mean here.

Procedure working?:
Peer reviewed, eh. So far, you haven't got a procedure. Just declare it into existence. That works fine. Right?

data and draw conclusion:
look at how all the functions of our bodies work, the purpose of each part and what it does. Do the same for bugs and plants and animals and earths processes, ect.
You're skipping out on species and moving to another subject completely? What happened to all the "parts" that make up a species? Where are you getting your funding? That's going to be a huge cash outlay. I want to talk to your guy. If he will pay for this garbage, I know he is going to love my work. I'll even be able to give him valid results.

Wait a minute. Earths processes. What happened to all your made up biology studies? Now you are doing earth science?

Results align with hypotheses or not?:
results in this case DO align with the hypotheses.
You have not done any of the mismatched, hodge podge of nothing that you claimed to do in the preceding so how can you have any results and how can they align with your hinky hypothesis. Why don't you just declare it so and publish. You'll save on page charges.

Communicate results:
in the case of intelligent design; there has been scientists that propose ID that have submitted it for peer review. So....peer review was done for ID. This means it has been communicated.
The few that have tried were mostly tossed once it was clear that religion was the topic and not science.

Yes, whats wrong with it?
Aside from it being a straw man, it was funny to read.

Why is what i said inane?
Did I misspell that?

And my ethics are just fine, so if i wer teaching at the university, my ethics would have gotten me fired. Good thing.
It was my ethics that I referred to. If you feel guilty for some reason, that is on you. I do not think you will have to worry about getting a job teaching at the university.

Sometimes one needs to exercise courage against the power structure that is simply wrong.
Sometimes one needs to exercise courage and honesty against confused, perhaps well meaning people, and show them the error of their ways when they are simply wrong. At least let others know that the confused people are off track so that the original confusion does not spread.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
If you know your Bible well you know that God created Michael first and then he created everything else; the spiritual heavens, the "angels," the physical heavens, including earth, and then he made the earth habitable for life, and finally creating all plants, creatures and mankind on earth.

The angles had a great deal of time to mature, intellectually and otherwise. Then mankind were afforded a great period of time in which they too, could mature likewise.

True Bible believers don't need evolution to rationalize their intelligence level.
How can you tell that a "true" Bible believer is a better Christian than just a Christian that believes in God, accepts Jesus and follows his teachings?

Does everything in the Bible have to be true? Could some of it be what the authors thought? What happens if it isn't all true and without error? Would that be the end of Christianity or could we just continue to believe in God. I am going to.
 

Earthling

David Henson
How can you tell that a "true" Bible believer is a better Christian than just a Christian that believes in God, accepts Jesus and follows his teachings?

Does everything in the Bible have to be true? Could some of it be what the authors thought? What happens if it isn't all true and without error? Would that be the end of Christianity or could we just continue to believe in God. I am going to.

You believe in God because you feel it. You know very little about it. How can you truly believe in something you know very little about? You believe in science because you think it. You know very little about it. Why would you believe in something you know very little about.

Answer: You feel for "Christianity" and you think it should reflect the "wisdom" of men.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Apples to oranges comparison. Plus, the perception of the sun going round the earth is shown by NASA to be the opposite.



Theres no appearence of design? Ummm, ok, if you think so. I dont agree at all.

Calves have the appearence of design. Each design has purposes. Calves would be no different in that regard.
Show evidence that there is any design in a calf. I do not see it
a) Being manufactured.
b) By any manufacturer.
c) For any purpose of this manufacturer.
Hence no design.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
You believe in God because you feel it. You know very little about it. How can you truly believe in something you know very little about? You believe in science because you think it. You know very little about it. Why would you believe in something you know very little about.

Answer: You feel for "Christianity" and you think it should reflect the "wisdom" of men.
Correction. I reveal very little about what I know about Christianity and my religious views. I am not here to defend what I already believe and do not question regarding my personal views. I am here to discuss science and defend it against people that are biased against it over their own confusion and ignorance.

I accept science with valid reasons. I do not believe in it. Science is defended with evidence and it is that basis on which I accept it. I understand that science, unlike belief, is not immutable. Belief without question is not a requirement of the acceptance of science or scientific conclusions.

I know a lot about science. I have been a scientist for close to 30 years. I have all my higher education in science and studied it in high school as well. I have been correct on all the information I have posted in reference to science to date. On what basis are you claiming that I know very little about science? Is it just sour grapes? It sounds like sour grapes.

Since you know so much more than I do, why do you hesitate in answering my questions. You should be able to educate me.
 
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Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Answer: You feel for "Christianity" and you think it should reflect the "wisdom" of men.
I believe in Christianity, but I do not defile the gifts of intelligence, observation and reasoning that were given to me, by locking myself into the false worship of words that were written and compiled by man, no matter how inspired some of them may have been.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Correction. I reveal very little about what I know about Christianity and my religious views.

Yes, you've been very guarded in your views, but what you fail to appreciate is that you reveal a great deal more than you know even in just that.

I am not here to defend what I already believe and do not question regarding my personal views. I am here to discuss science and defend it against people that are biased against it over their own confusion and ignorance.

Well, I'm not interested in that.
 

Earthling

David Henson
I believe in Christianity, but I do not defile the gifts of intelligence, observation and reasoning that were given to me, by locking myself into the false worship of words that were written and compiled by man, no matter how inspired some of them may have been.

But the words of men regarding science are carved in stone, eh?
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, you've been very guarded in your views, but what you fail to appreciate is that you reveal a great deal more than you know even in just that.
This is not my first rodeo. I am aware of what I reveal.



Well, I'm not interested in that.
That is difficult to believe, considering you make statements about the discoveries of science, including creating threads dedicated to the discussion of issues in science. Do you need me to find those threads for you?
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
But the words of men regarding science are carved in stone, eh?
You are one of those men, are you not?

You are still evading my questions from before.

How can you tell that a "true" Bible believer is a better Christian than just a Christian that believes in God, accepts Jesus and follows his teachings?

Does everything in the Bible have to be true? Could some of it be what the authors thought? What happens if it isn't all true and without error? Would that be the end of Christianity or could we just continue to believe in God.

You have already made veiled and sarcastic allusion to the words of men regarding science. Are you including the words of men regarding God in this? I mean, people say a lot about God these days, just as they did in times of yore. Are those words, then and now, carved in stone too?
 

Earthling

David Henson
That is difficult to believe, considering you make statements about the discoveries of science, including creating threads dedicated to the discussion of issues in science. Do you need me to find those threads for you?

You said:

I am here to discuss science and defend it against people that are biased against it over their own confusion and ignorance.

I'm not interested in discussing science with someone who must make the assumption that I'm biased due to my own confusion and ignorance. And to clarify, thus saving you time of searching through my threads to determine what I am and am not interested in let me add this to the aforementioned statement.

Anymore. As in I'm no longer interested.
 
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