The new Athiest Humanities downfall?

[Audie]

Somewhere between Pascal's wager and fear of the dark, perhaps.

Its called philosophy, Cricket.

 

[Audie]

I know, eh? That's the part that always gets me, too. All that stuff that is supposed to be "ineffable," and unknowable, that the people making those very claims are then happy to explain to you! Too funny, really.

Moods, wishes, plans, limitations,likes n dislike.

 

[Audie]

Atheists appreciate the arts as much as any. The Bible, as are all religious texts, works of literary art. As an atheist I can appreciate The Bible as a literary work of art, along with the stained glass windows, cathedrals, chants, and so on.

I hold that an interested atheist appreciates the bible more / understands it better than the theist does.

Edited- " it " referred to the Bible

 

[danieldemol]

Here is a transcript of him using the word militant atheism and he then goes on using a false description of religion.
Transcript of "Militant atheism"

In context Dawkins is using the term "militant atheism" as a joke, and the laughter of the audience suggests it is received as a joke.

In my opinion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I hold that an interested atheist appreciates it more / understands it better than the theist does.

When I travel (and it's been a couple of years, for the obvious pandemic reason...), I never miss the theatres, the museums or the houses of religion. (Of course, I never miss the best restaurants, either, but that's just satisfying the immediate desires.)

"Why would an atheist go to so many churches, big and small, cathedrals, mosques, temples, mandirs, synagogues," people ask. And my answer is always, "because those are the places where I can see humans expressing themselves most profoundly, where I can learn about the species (not just my little tribe of it) that I am part of."

 

[We Never Know]

When I travel (and it's been a couple of years, for the obvious pandemic reason...), I never miss the theatres, the museums or the houses of religion. (Of course, I never miss the best restaurants, either, but that's just satisfying the immediate desires.)

"Why would an atheist go to so many churches, big and small, cathedrals, mosques, temples, mandirs, synagogues," people ask. And my answer is always, "because those are the places where I can see humans expressing themselves most profoundly, where I can learn about the species (not just my little tribe of it) that I am part of."

"Why would an atheist go to so many churches, big and small, cathedrals, mosques, temples, mandirs, synagogues," people ask. And my answer is always, "because those are the places where I can see humans expressing themselves most profoundly, where I can learn about the species (not just my little tribe of it) that I am part of."

What have you learned about the species by doing that?

 

[blü 2]

Its called philosophy, Cricket.

Love of wisdom? Bless the patter of its dear little feet!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"Why would an atheist go to so many churches, big and small, cathedrals, mosques, temples, mandirs, synagogues," people ask. And my answer is always, "because those are the places where I can see humans expressing themselves most profoundly, where I can learn about the species (not just my little tribe of it) that I am part of."

What have you learned about the species by doing that?

Before I try to answer (and any answer I make will be perfunctory and unsatisfying), let me also say that I visit libraries, and universities, and laboratories. And parks, and areas of great architecture, and....

What have I learned about our species? That we are amazing. We are capable of so much good, and so much bad. That we are able to learn almost anything we set our minds to, and that we can ignore everything we set our minds against. That we can be wise and ignorant, caring and unfeeling, rational and gullible.

I have learned that we have the capacity to continue this particular evolutionary path, but it is not guaranteed.

I would like to say that I have learned that the way forward to the continuation of our species is to learn what we truly are -- a social animal utterly dependent upon the rest of our species, and capable of destroying our species through misunderstanding how far that sociality extends (as lower social species do -- there's nothing so brutal as wars between ant colonies, and they're social).

But I can't say I've "learned" that. I hope it. I think it is possible -- but I also think it's possible that we could default our way to extinction.

But I have learned that said extinction would be enormously satisfying to the fans of apocalypticism who are so desperate to get to heaven that they don't care about anybody else.

Anything else you want to know?

 

[We Never Know]

Before I try to answer (and any answer I make will be perfunctory and unsatisfying), let me also say that I visit libraries, and universities, and laboratories. And parks, and areas of great architecture, and....

What have I learned about our species? That we are amazing. We are capable of so much good, and so much bad. That we are able to learn almost anything we set our minds to, and that we can ignore everything we set our minds against. That we can be wise and ignorant, caring and unfeeling, rational and gullible.

I have learned that we have the capacity to continue this particular evolutionary path, but it is not guaranteed.

I would like to say that I have learned that the way forward to the continuation of our species is to learn what we truly are -- a social animal utterly dependent upon the rest of our species, and capable of destroying our species through misunderstanding how far that sociality extends (as lower social species do -- there's nothing so brutal as wars between ant colonies, and they're social).

But I can't say I've "learned" that. I hope it. I think it is possible -- but I also think it's possible that we could default our way to extinction.

But I have learned that said extinction would be enormously satisfying to the fans of apocalypticism who are so desperate to get to heaven that they don't care about anybody else.

Anything else you want to know?

I was with you up until the last little paragraph. In my opinion no one I have ever met wants to die(if heaven exists one can't get there until they die)or wants the demise of mankind.

 

[Audie]

"Why would an atheist go to so many churches, big and small, cathedrals, mosques, temples, mandirs, synagogues," people ask. And my answer is always, "because those are the places where I can see humans expressing themselves most profoundly, where I can learn about the species (not just my little tribe of it) that I am part of."

What have you learned about the species by doing that?

I learned about how they managed to build
those incredible cathedrals with such simple tools.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I was with you up until the last little paragraph. In my opinion no one I have ever met wants to die(if heaven exists one can't get there until they die)or wants the demise of mankind.

The last paragraph I wrote because I responded in another thread to a member who is longing for the "end-times." A lot of unhappy people look forward to that (suicide), but so do a fairly large number of supposed Christians (millenialists and others), too.

 

[Sheldon]

This isn't really accurate.

How so?

Any problems you describes are just the icing on the cake. Had religious institutions been liberal the problem would be mostly the same.

Marx imagined the problem not me, and that idea alone matters as that idea alone was the one described as dangerous, and that alone was what I contested. I made no assertions about liberal theistic belief vs any other kind as well?

Belief in God was the problem as humans had to be the "supreme being" to be fully in charge of their destiny

In order to think action in this life was worthwhile? I doubt that, but Marx's statement here certainly didn't suggest that he thought so. This still doesn't make his idea dangerous.

Materialism (and thus atheism) wasn't incedental to Marxism but a key doctrinal foundation.

I never mentioned materialism? Nor did I claim atheism was incedental (sic) to Marxism. I merely contested this particular idea was a "dangerous idea of atheism". Of course Marx was an atheist, so it would be bizarre to imagine his life work in styling an economic ideology would then involve religion or theistic belief. However there are other secular governments that don't suppress religions. Some even have separation of church and state written into their constitution.

 

[Sheldon]

Asking someone if they are sure about their parents isn't an insult. However it does show we do take some thing's on faith, by word, without question.

Yes it is, and no we don't, not in the same sense as religious faith, this is a very tired old canard.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Asking someone if they are sure about their parents isn't an insult. However it does show we do take some thing's on faith, by word, without question.

You could have made the same point without suggesting to another member that one of their parents (presumably mother) was unfaithful. A little tact is not usually amiss.

 

[We Never Know]

Yes it is, and no we don't, not in the same sense as religious faith, this is very tired old canard.

Your opinion is noted

 

[Audie]

Yes it is, and no we don't, not in the same sense as religious faith, this is very tired old canard.

Its almost like some of that equivocation we hear about

 

[Sheldon]

In context Dawkins is using the term "militant atheism" as a joke, and the laughter of the audience suggests it is received as a joke.

In my opinion.

I concur, and it certainly does seem humorous to compare Dawkins to religious extremists.

 

[F1fan]

That depends on what you consider religion.

I consider religion religion.

I'm sure you can find a complex way to get confused about it.

Because what religion is, is not like gravity. What religion is, is a cultural construct and how you understand it, is a cultural construct. That is also so for me. I just know that.

There is plenty about religion that theists don't know, but that experts in the psychology of religion and sociology does know. Most all theists do not think about their belief, it is just a sort of operating system as their minds function.

 

[lukethethird]

That depends on what you consider religion. Because what religion is, is not like gravity. What religion is, is a cultural construct and how you understand it, is a cultural construct. That is also so for me. I just know that.

Art is an expression of the human condition, and that is what religion is. Religion is art and it influences culture more than any other story.

 

[wandering peacefully]

see a unity in diversity needs to be built on virtues,

Says the man who started yet another bogus
theist created list, to demonize nonbelievers.