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The new Athiest Humanities downfall?

Is the new Athiest Humanities downfall?

  • Yes it is!

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • No it isn't!

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • Yes but I will explain more.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No but I will explain more.

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • I offer a different view.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The subject is more complex.

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Total voters
    35

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Humble apologies o'mighty one.
Chill out and happy new year

Yeah, We The Atheists must fight all other worldviews, though atheism is not all worldview, but to some atheists it is.
"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.
Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.
Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."
Our Vision

First off, if you have to deny this as real, I am so mighty that it is a fake site made by me. ;)
Now if you accept it as real, it says nothing about atheism. It is a worldview that incorporates atheism and claim to speak for all atheists, just as some religious people claim to speak for all religion.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Is it actually a normative demand, though? If you tell me something then I'm free to believe it regardless of whether you supplied any evidence for it or not - and indeed, this is how normal conversations tend to go. The evidence is only required for formal truth claims made in a very specific formal context.

I can demand evidence for your claims, but you are under no obligation, normative or otherwise, to acquiesce to my demands, unless we are in a formal debate or an academic context with rules(explicit or implied) for that kind of thing.

Yeah, you are right. But some posters in effect treat it as such.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
We have people who are blindly and arrogantly appointing themselves the deciders of 'true reality' and are using that delusion to denigrate anyone who dares to contradict them.

Are they threatening ex communication or eternal damnation if you don't comply, or maybe the Inquisition? How would they enforce this exactly? With rational discourse and debate, the sheer horror...:rolleyes: That's one of the funniest posts I've ever read.

using that delusion to denigrate anyone who dares to contradict them.

their delusional self-righteousness.... atheist fundamentalists... absolute self-righteousness... blinding ignorance

:D
Irony_Meter-1.jpg
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Meaning is a subjective behavior that is also tied to social cohesion. An individual can adopt a tribal framework of meaning and those ideas mean something crucial to that group of people. It helps the social function, much of it though subconscious motives and payoffs.

On the other hand one of these people can find a rock on a hike some day, and worship this rock 4 times a day for years. Eventually this ordinary rock will become very import to that individual, but to anyone else it is just an ordinary rock.

How humans invest their time and interest will reflect back on what they have meaning in, even if the acts and symbols mean nothing outside of their imagination. How many different gods are worshipped that have no basis in fact, only tradition?

Like this one:
"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.
Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.
Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Sounds like an attempt at an atheist religion to me. Such a non issue.

Here is another:
"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.
Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.
Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."
Our Vision
 

Audie

Veteran Member
It's an issue for the exact same reason religious fundamentalism is an issue. We have people who are blindly and arrogantly appointing themselves the deciders of 'true reality' and are using that delusion to denigrate anyone who dares to contradict them.

As long as they have no power in society to impose their delusional self-righteousness on others they are just annoying. But should these atheist fundamentalists ever get any real power they will be just as dangerous as any religious fundamentalists. Because the danger is in their presumed absolute self-righteousness, and in the blinding ignorance they employ to maintain it. And in their willingness to sacrifice others to that cause.

"We have people who " but AS USUAL, you
have no examples.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The new atheism has twelve characteristics that define its nature:

(1) A commitment to explicit, strong or dogmatic atheism as the only rational choice for modern, independent, free thinking individuals. The new atheists reject
agnosticism as too weak a response to the dangers of religion.
(2) A categorical rejection of any and all super-sensible beings and realities and a corresponding commitment to ontological (metaphysical) materialism in explaining all phenomena;
(3) A militant agenda and tone which opposes not just of religion itself but even the tolerance of any religious beliefs in others; this agenda and tone is driven by the belief that religion per se is pathological in nature;
(4) A strident, aggressive, provocative and insulting way of expressing themselves and indulgence in all kinds of polemical and rhetorical shenanigans;
(5) Commitment to the ability of science to answer all human questions by means of the scientific method with its criteria of measurability, repeatability, predictability,
falsifiability; quantifiability;
(6) A belief that faith is inherently an enemy of reason and science and no reconciliation between them is possible. Religion is inherently irrational. They are naturally in a
perpetual conflict that must end with the victory of one or the other. Faith is defined as “belief without evidence.” They adhere to the conflict model of the relationship
between religion/faith and reason;
(7) A belief that religion is part of our past but not of our future, i.e. part of our evolutionary heritage that we must learn to overcome;
(8) An insistence of reading scriptures literally (in order to condemn religion) and a consistent rejection of centuries of non-literal theological interpretations of the relevant scriptures;
(9) An insistence that humankind has an innate and reliable moral sense or intuition that does not require the guidance of religion; morality is not inherently connected to or based on religion and our morals have less to do with religion than we tend to think.
(10) Presentism: judging past ages by the standards of today, which is, in effect, a failure to recognise progressive revelation. (also the logical error of anachronism);
(11) Their belief that religious faith is either a mental illness or a criminal offense comparable to child-molesting or an anti-social act that ‘dumbs down’ society as a whole;
(12) Their rejection of the freedom to be religious; because religion is so damaging religion is not a legitimate choice in society."

More theistic atheophobia. Yet another thread to bemoan the wicked atheist. Yes, the secular humanist rejects faith and religion, and many consider organized, politicized religion a pox to be subdued.

But you lost me at point [1], where the author immediately reveals that he is uninterested in what atheists actually say about themselves and their beliefs. Most call themselves agnostic atheists. As soon as I see that mistake - one can be atheist or agnostic, but not both - I understand that the source doesn't understand his subject and isn't interested in being correct.

Number [4] also belies the source's bigotry. How is your source any less strident, aggressive, provocative or insulting than anything it criticizes?

Progressive revelation [10]? The only revelation humanity receives comes from the application of reason to evidence and conscience. As science and rational ethics drag the religions into modernity by teaching them such things as that monarchy and slavery are bad, and that the universe is billions of years old and evolved from a seed, theists are forced to call their scriptures anything but what they are - the best but wrong guesses of ancient people as to how they and their world got there taught as history. When called on this, they say, "You take the words too literally."

This oozes of a double standard. Somehow, rejecting faith-based thought is oppressive, but the theist's rejection of strict empiricism is not seen as the same thing in reverse. Disagreement with theists is depicted as intolerance and described as attack, but disagreement back as with, "You're thinking is too narrow, too evidence-based," that somehow is holy.

Who's rejecting freedom of religion [12]? Secularists inspired by Enlightenment values enshrined it in the US Constitution. Theists executed one another for the wrong beliefs. Theists hung witches until it was illegal?

The complaint is basically that secular humanists have a voice today through the best-selling authors named above and the Internet. Here, people like me are able to respond to these types of defamatory depictions of atheists that they have been subjected to since people began writing down words describing how horrible unbelievers are, but which until recently, there was no recourse to. But now they have a voice, a platform, and the theists aren't liking what they are hearing. They aren't used to being disagreed with. They're used to holding the bully pulpit to rail against unbelievers, who were once voiceless and powerless to respond. But that's changed, and like the changing racial demographics in some countries, the majority feels threatened, which manifests as bigotry, whether against other races, ethnicities, or worldviews like secular humanism.
  • "The problem with being privileged your whole life is that because you have had that privilege for so long, equality starts to look like oppression." - Mark Caddo
Isn't my response and responses like it the real objection? How dare these atheist upstarts push back? The unstated assumption is that the theist is a good person promoting goodness, and that therefore, those who reject or oppose this are evil. As I said, that theme dominates Christian dogma. Unbelievers are all fools, corrupt, and none do good. Do not yoke yourself to them. They are like an infection, fools who think themselves wise, slated for destruction and eternal torture for being in open defiance of a good God. You know the script.

And so, theists begin thread after thread aggressively bemoaning the aggressive atheist, condemning his "materialistic" worldview because he doesn't accept faith-based worldviews or the claims generated by them, never seeing the double standard of this symmetric situation being treated asymmetrically.

Isn't this kind of thing reason enough for any theist to be an anti-theist and support the evaporation of organized religion? Don't we have a right and obligation to do whatever is possible to eradicate that from the world? Don't I have the duty to answer a post like yours with one like this? Don't you have a duty to think about things and decide what is constructive discussion and what is just more bigoted, uninformed marginalization and demonization of atheists? Is this behavior consistent with your religious principles?
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
I have never met a militant atheist, as far as i knew it was a title bestowed on those atheist who argue harder than religionists.
Would you agree that most Christians are fair-minded people? Would you also agree that most televangelists are not fair-minded Christians? Would you say that the televangelists are "arguing harder" for their position?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Same as with religion. And in both instances, some views are extreme and occasionally dangerous. Most theists understand this about theism. But do most atheists understand this about atheism?

It appears not.

How things appear to thine eyes is not
the same as how they are.
Arrogance and self righteousness are
vices to avoid.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
"We have people who " but AS USUAL, you
have no examples.
He seems to be claiming Professor Dawkins represents the same danger as ISIS, the KKK and the Taliban. Almost as hilarious as the idea Dawkins is seeking political power to forcibly eradicate religious belief. It's pretty hilarious stuff, one can almost sense the vigilante atmosphere here, if they had pitchforks I think they'd be storming Dawkins home right now. Yet ironically they claim he is dangerous. I mean the man does write books after all, that's unconscionable behaviour. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
How things appear to thine eyes is not
the same as how they are.
Arrogance and self righteousness are
vices to avoid.

"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."
Our Vision

Do you see a problem with that? Do you see the scientism in it?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
He think Professor Dawkins represents the same danger as ISIS and the Taliban. Almost as hilarious as the idea Dawkins is seeking political power to forcibly eradicate religious belief. It's pretty hilarious stuff, one can almost sense the vigilante atmosphere here, if they had pitchforks I think they'd be storming Dawkins home right now. Yet ironically they claim he is dangerous. I mean the man does write books after all, that's unconscionable behaviour. :rolleyes:

Do you see any problems in this:
"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."
Our Vision
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Same as with religion. And in both instances, some views are extreme and occasionally dangerous. Most theists understand this about theism. But do most atheists understand this about atheism?

It appears not.
Just curios, what exactly do you see as dangerous about atheism, even if you take the most extreme atheism that you can think of? What do you think that it would bring with it in terms of harm or what else one could include in the word dangerous?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
He think Professor Dawkins represents the same danger as ISIS and the Taliban. Almost as hilarious as the idea Dawkins is seeking political power to forcibly eradicate religious belief. It's pretty hilarious stuff, one can almost sense the vigilante atmosphere here, if they had pitchforks I think they'd be storming Dawkins home right now. Yet ironically they claim he is dangerous. I mean the man does write books after all, that's unconscionable behaviour. :rolleyes:

Id never have heard of him but for
theists saying i blindly follow him.

I started one of his books. Boring.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Would you agree that most Christians are fair-minded people? Would you also agree that most televangelists are not fair-minded Christians? Would you say that the televangelists are "arguing harder" for their position?

No i would not agree. My experience with christians has been abysmal.

I would agree that there are some fair minded christians, but not most. The reason i left Christianity in the first place is Christians.

I would say televangelists are arguing harder for their pay packet
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Just curios, what exactly do you see as dangerous about atheism, even if you take the most extreme atheism that you can think of? What do you think that it would bring with it in terms of harm or what else one could include in the word dangerous?

This is potentially dangerous as some of it is nothing but garbage in, garbage out in effect:

"...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
No i would not agree. My experience with christians has been abysmal.

I would agree that there are some fair minded christians, but not most. The reason i left Christianity in the first place is Christians.

I would say televangelists are arguing harder for their pay packet

Yeah, and mine has been good. Now what?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's their drive to be intellectual superior to theists that is colored with selfish pride, that makes them unattractive. It comes out with their irrational ways of talking to theists rudely.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It's their drive to be intellectual superior to theists that is colored with selfish pride, that makes them unattractive. It comes out with their irrational ways of talking to theists rudely.

As long as you understand that those atheists are not all atheists,
 
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