The New System

[Earthling]

Let's see...before you get to experience any of these "wonders" of the New System, let us not forget that the Paradise you envision will be littered with billions of rotting corpses that you will have to deal with. Yes, I know, JWs believe that the birds of the Heavens will devour the dead, but there will be a LOT of dead bodies, and I'm sure that the stench will be overwhelming for quite some time.

Then, of course, the majority of JWs have no skills that would be necessary to rebuild any sort of civilization as it is known today. You'll be living in the Stone Age for quite some time. No electricity, no running water, tons of rubble to clean up, etc.

The "New System" will be your basic hellhole for quite some time. Enjoy!

Oh, but it will be worth it, though. Finally get rid of all the corruption, greed, crime, sickness, Starbucks. Sure there will be a mess to clean up but that shouldn't take too long.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

That's why I give no date.

But the bible does. The bible specifically states in Matthew 10:23, Luke 21:32, and Matthew 16:27-28, among many other verses, that Jesus' second coming would occur within the lifetimes of the disciples who were standing there at the time. This is obviously a failed prophecy.

 

[Etritonakin]

What wasn't clear to you? The bible isn't proof-- it's your claim. You cannot use your claim as proof....

I guess it was your post.

It seemed clear that you wanted to know where it was written.
Guess not.
Proof will be provided with resurrection, the new language, new body, etc.
If science has to wait, it has to wait.
I'm cool with that.

 

[Etritonakin]

But the bible does. The bible specifically states in Matthew 10:23, Luke 21:32, and Matthew 16:27-28, among many other verses, that Jesus' second coming would occur within the lifetimes of the disciples who were standing there at the time. This is obviously a failed prophecy.

Not specifically -it said SOME there would not taste death (also implying that some would) until that time. What that means is another subject -but he did not specifically say it would happen within a human lifetime. Other verses are obviously addressing future generations -Christ knowing his words would be recorded.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I shouldn't have to had asked this, but show me.

I googled "Australia" and "aborigines" and "how old". *Boom*... like magic-- there was the answer with links to actual University websites, which had the evidence.

How about that? You might learn something if you search for yourself...

.. .and yeah, I googled, because I wasn't sure if it was 20,000, 50,000 or what-- I knew it was roughly that far back, though.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I guess it was your post.

It seemed clear that you wanted to know where it was written.
Guess not.
Proof will be provided with resurrection, the new language, new body, etc.
If science has to wait, it has to wait.
I'm cool with that.

It's not "proof" if one has to DIE first! Ooops!

What you have there? Is faith-- and with FAITH? There can be NOTHING NEW, in the information department.

This is because FAITH can be literally ANYTHING: Many folk, for example, have FAITH that Ancient Aliens will travel to a near earth orbit, and take them up to an Alien Utopian Society using magic or teleportation or some such (it's never clear how).

Faith is useless, here. That's why we need facts.

Alas, the bible doesn't have any... facts, that is.

 

[Earthling]

I googled "Australia" and "aborigines" and "how old". *Boom*... like magic-- there was the answer with links to actual University websites, which had the evidence.

How about that? You might learn something if you search for yourself...

.. .and yeah, I googled, because I wasn't sure if it was 20,000, 50,000 or what-- I knew it was roughly that far back, though.

But the question was show me. Of course I can do a search. And the question is, how did they arrive at that answer.

 

[Earthling]

But the bible does. The bible specifically states in Matthew 10:23, Luke 21:32, and Matthew 16:27-28, among many other verses, that Jesus' second coming would occur within the lifetimes of the disciples who were standing there at the time. This is obviously a failed prophecy.

No, Jesus said no one, not even him knew the answer. Those scriptures you gave aren't talking about the end of this system, they are talking about other things.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Excellent work, Bob. The rapture is unscriptural nonsense created by John Darby in the late 19th century. If those people would have verified the teaching by doing just a little research they wouldn't have gotten what they deserve. Ripped off. And the vanishing claimant of which you speak wouldn't have had the chance to do his work.

Don't mean to sound snippy, but JWs are just as "ripped off" as anyone believing in the Rapture. JWs give their time, money, health and life to a religious publishing company that tells them that it will all be worth it when they finally arrive in the New System where all their dreams will be realized.

Want a nice house that you can't currently afford? Just wait until the New System and you can take over one of those lovely McMansions owned by a "worldly person" that you currently covet when Jehovah kills those "goats." Want a pet tiger? Just wait until the New System and you can have all the pet tigers and lions you could ever wish for.

Want to take up painting, or a musical instrument, or any other creative pursuit? Devote your life now to the Watchtower Society and you will have ETERNITY to paint, or fiddle, or do anything you want...forever!!!

So, JWs slave tirelessly for a religious publishing corporation that doesn't care one whit about them and they don't actually live the life they've been given. It's all on hold as they wait for the New System.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Happy to.

1. On August 21st of 2017 we experience a total solar eclipse. The fact that we were able to predict down to the second precisely when this eclipse would occur is verifiable evidence that the theory of heliocentrism is accurate.

2. YOU posted here on the Internet site and so have I! Contrary to what you might believe, the reason we can do this ISN'T because of magical fairies that live in your computer, it's due to the fact that we've learned how to manipulate electrons because of our understanding on electron theory.

3. Prior to the introduction of the polio vaccine there were just under 60,000 cases of polio in the United States. Over the past thirty years with virtually everyone receiving a polio vaccine, there have been ZERO cases of polio in the United States. This is verifiable evidence that the polio vaccine is effective at eradicating polio.

Oh, no! There AREN'T magical fairies in my computer? Are you saying that I should stop putting nectar into that sliding "plate holder" that pops out when I push a button so that the fairies can be well nourished?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, no! There AREN'T magical fairies in my computer? Are you saying that I should stop putting nectar into that sliding "plate holder" that pops out when I push a button so that the fairies can be well nourished?

No, keep doing that. It helps keep the computer lubricated and cooled.

Ignore any smoke that you see coming from your computer. That problem will go away in a very short time.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

What’s wrong with imagining the future? We already wait for it while imagining it. So what’s the difference? We don’t guess how old the universe is (well, theists do), we have a pretty solid idea. Ditto for abiogenesis.

The problem with the JWs' imagining of the future is that they don't live in the present. Everything for them is put on hold for the "New System" and they generally refrain from doing anything other than working their tails off for the Watchtower Society in hopes that they will be able to realize all their dreams when they skip into the New System over the rotting corpses of 99.9% of mankind.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

No, keep doing that. It helps keep the computer lubricated and cooled.

Ignore any smoke that you see coming from your computer. That problem will go away in a very short time.

Oh, thank you...thank you. I was so afraid that I might have been doing something silly! I'm glad, too, that you reassured me about the smoke thingy. That was becoming just a tad worrisome, but now I know it's all good!

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Oh, but it will be worth it, though. Finally get rid of all the corruption, greed, crime, sickness, Starbucks. Sure there will be a mess to clean up but that shouldn't take too long.

Shouldn't take too long? Really? As of July of this year, there are 7.6 billion people on the earth. There are around 7 million JWs, many of whom won't make it into the New System. There will also be, I'm sure, collateral damage with millions of animals being killed, what with fire balls raining down and buildings toppling and all. After all, supposedly in the Flood billions of humans and animals were killed (overkill is more like it...why not just destroy the wicked rather than all those innocent animals?)

So, you have a few million survivors faced with billions and billions of rotting corpses (and a bunch of sick birds who have been forced to chow down for days on end,) mountains of rubble, most likely nuclear meltdowns from half-destroyed reactors, fires from ruptured fuel storage tanks...and the list goes on...and you think it wouldn't take too long?

Sorry, but I think your expectations of skipping into a blissful existence are way too optimistic.

 

[Earthling]

Don't mean to sound snippy, but JWs are just as "ripped off" as anyone believing in the Rapture. JWs give their time, money, health and life to a religious publishing company that tells them that it will all be worth it when they finally arrive in the New System where all their dreams will be realized.

Want a nice house that you can't currently afford? Just wait until the New System and you can take over one of those lovely McMansions owned by a "worldly person" that you currently covet when Jehovah kills those "goats." Want a pet tiger? Just wait until the New System and you can have all the pet tigers and lions you could ever wish for.

Want to take up painting, or a musical instrument, or any other creative pursuit? Devote your life now to the Watchtower Society and you will have ETERNITY to paint, or fiddle, or do anything you want...forever!!!

So, JWs slave tirelessly for a religious publishing corporation that doesn't care one whit about them and they don't actually live the life they've been given. It's all on hold as they wait for the New System.

I agree. I'm not a JW.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

But the question was show me. Of course I can do a search. And the question is, how did they arrive at that answer.

A good question. Alas, to answer? I'd need to teach college level classes in basic geology, multiple classes on chemistry, physics and related fields, at least two different statistical analysis classes. That's just the base-- next, we'd have to teach a couple of classes on how archaeology works. JUST to get to Square ONE.

Frankly, I have neither the time, nor patience for those who are willfully and deliberately ignorant.

And anyone who thinks "creationism" is valid? Or that the bible is a history book? Is deliberately and willfully ignorant.

 

[Earthling]

A good question. Alas, to answer? I'd need to teach college level classes in basic geology, multiple classes on chemistry, physics and related fields, at least two different statistical analysis classes. That's just the base-- next, we'd have to teach a couple of classes on how archaeology works. JUST to get to Square ONE.

Frankly, I have neither the time, nor patience for those who are willfully and deliberately ignorant.

And anyone who thinks "creationism" is valid? Or that the bible is a history book? Is deliberately and willfully ignorant.

Willfully ignorant is just another word for stupid. You are calling me stupid for what I believe.

I asked to be shown how they had come to that conclusion, not to be shown how to come to that conclusion myself. You don't have to teach me anything. It has been my experience in life that teachers, i.e. college professors etc. are the second most stupid people on the planet. Second only to cops. You're not a teacher though, you're an atheist, therefore a liar. And the third most stupid people on the planet.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Willfully ignorant is just another word for stupid. You are calling me stupid for what I believe.

I asked to be shown how they had come to that conclusion, not to be shown how to come to that conclusion myself. You don't have to teach me anything. It has been my experience in life that teachers, i.e. college professors etc. are the second most stupid people on the planet. Second only to cops. You're not a teacher though, you're an atheist, therefore a liar. And the third most stupid people on the planet.

Niiiiiceee..... witness the "love" of Jesus.

But I stand my my statement of willfully ignorant.

Notebook: At no time did I actually call YOU that.....

... here's the thing: You would need $1000's of dollars of basic, fundamental education, before you were at Square One, in order to explain how scientists know that Australian Aborigines existed 40,000+ years.

Your ugly rant, in paragraph two, demonstrates you are not only unwilling to learn? You actively despise anyone who actually has learned ahead of you....

.... so. If the shoe fits?

 

[Looncall]

There will be a new heavens and a new earth is a familiar theme. It was already done a couple times to a lesser extent with the global deluge and on a smaller scale with the destruction and reestablishment of Jerusalem. It means a new government and a new people. The old system is destroyed and replaced by a new one. In the new system the governments, religions, and commerce along with many of it's people, are destroyed and replaced by Jehovah God's kingdom.

Bah, this guff is just part of the old, old scam.

Believers would have us still ignorant, backward and under the jackboots of greedy clerics.

See what has happened to the Muslim world since they let their clerics get the upper hand.

 

[Earthling]

Niiiiiceee..... witness the "love" of Jesus.

You think the love of Jesus is expressed by being nice to people like you?!

Notebook: At no time did I actually call YOU that.....

And anyone who thinks "creationism" is valid? Or that the bible is a history book? Is deliberately and willfully ignorant.

... here's the thing: You would need $1000's of dollars of basic, fundamental education, before you were at Square One, in order to explain how scientists know that Australian Aborigines existed 40,000+ years.