The One True God™

[SalixIncendium]

Shifting the blame, eh? This just translates as you being unable to assert your claim in the presence of countering points. Not to mention that it was you who became so focused on the existence of thunder after your backflip away from post #31, where you recognized the distinction between a thunderstorm and the ocean.

So instead of Batmaning™ out of this, let's see you show - invariably - that Þórr is the same deity as, say, Kali. Then, maybe I'll be a little more forthcoming about my personal beliefs.

Funny that you point out that post. The one where I stated that a thunderstorm is not the same as an ocean, and subsequently you accuse me of stating that they are.

No, I think I'm done playing your game. Either choose to participate in the thread or don't. *shrugs* Either way, it's of little consequence to me.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If, with the word "God", you are referencing an almighty, infinite, active creator, then I would suggest that such a being would be infinitely evil.

All of creation and its associated activity is filled with dukkha (unsatisfactoriness/suffering). In my personal, direct experience, it is progressively greater amounts of stillness (non-activity, e.g. in meditation) which brings greater pleasure, ease, bliss, and peace. Stillness opposes the inhered active qualities associated with this imagined "God".

So you place the blame for dukkha on God rather than man? Most suffering I see in humankind is self-induced. For which suffering are you holding God accountable?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Funny that you point out that post. The one where I stated that a thunderstorm is not the same as an ocean, and subsequently you accuse me of stating that they are.

This was covered as well, when I quoted your Post #33, when you said that thunderstorms are an aspect of the ocean. And before you try to obfuscate the useage of "aspect", that was clearly defined as well.

No, I think I'm done playing your game. Either choose to participate in the thread or don't.

The only one playing games in this thread is you. Your OP claims that all gods are an aspect of a single God. Your OP also welcomes people to challenge your view; a view that, might I mention, has no evidence or rationalization for it.

Can you do it? Can you prove - or even show - that Þórr is the same deity as Kali? Or are you just going to ignore, twist, and Batman your way out of a debate?

 

[buddhist]

So you place the blame for dukkha on God rather than man? Most suffering I see in humankind is self-induced. For which suffering are you holding God accountable?

All of creation. None of it is ultimately and permanently satisfying.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The only one playing games in this thread is you. Your OP claims that all gods are an aspect of a single God. Your OP also welcomes people to challenge your view; a view that, might I mention, has no evidence or rationalization for it.

Claim?

Can you do it? Can you prove - or even show - that Þórr is the same deity as Kali? Or are you just going to ignore, twist, and Batman your way out of a debate?

Uhh...sorry. I don't revere your pantheon. So why would I need to do this?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Claim?

Yes, claim.

I am of the opinion that all gods worshiped/revered by all religions are merely aspects of one God. ...I am looking to read responses from people that disagree with my opinion ITT. If you view my concept as invalid and believe your god is separate from or is not an aspect of a greater God, I would like you to provide your thoughts as to why he/she/it is not or cannot be.

And here we are.

Uhh...sorry. I don't revere your pantheon. So why would I need to do this?

Bonus; those are two different pantheons. Why would you need to do this? To provide something for your opinion/claim/whatever you want to call it.

 

[firedragon]

How can you be sure what God is concerned with.

When you read anyones words you understand the concern. Thus i we read the book.

 

[paarsurrey]

I know many that believe the god of their religion is the One True God™. Holy wars, jihad, etc. have resulted in countless deaths due to this concept.

I am of the opinion that all gods worshiped/revered by all religions are merely aspects of one God. In my view, this God is non-sentient, non-judgmental, and does not control one's fate or destiny, and has no interest in the outcome of humanity or any other species. It just is. I believe most gods are injected with human characteristics to facilitate human relation with them, but do not actually possess these characteristics in a stand-alone version. The "god" concepts that are born of human emotion/character (loving, angry, caring, judging,etc.) come from man, not god. However, these emotions/characteristics manifest in one's personal god due to the energy put forth by a particular god's adherents. This opinion does not lend any more or any less credence to the existence or validity of one's personal god, nor is it saying that your god is any more or less real than another's. I just think most that identify themselves as religions and subscribe to the One True God™ mentality are missing the bigger picture. I am more than willing to elaborate on my thoughts on this should one ask.

I am looking to read responses from people that disagree with my opinion ITT. If you view my concept as invalid and believe your god is separate from or is not an aspect of a greater God, I would like you to provide your thoughts as to why he/she/it is not or cannot be. I am not looking for Scripture quotes or any other references to holy texts. These are man-made by people other than you (check local listings) and simply promote bias. I am also not looking for comments based on something someone else has told you to think. I am looking for real-life comments based on experience, contemplation, or personal enlightenment. Of course, hard evidence is always welcome.

"In my view, this God is non-sentient, non-judgmental, and does not control one's fate or destiny, and has no interest in the outcome of humanity or any other species."

I don't agree with one on the above colored in magenta. Please

Because G-d has let us know that whatever any animates do and specifically whatever the humans do, He knows that and lets us know his feelings about it. If we do good and virtuous things he will reward us in a god way and if we do evil, we get the punishment, in this world and in the hereafter. He will judge our deeds and misdeeds. He is the Master of the Day of Judgment, and everything is in His control and none could escape from His control. He doesn't need us, but we need Him, and we could get His nearness, and He guides us to Him. If we remember Him, He remembers us.
So, it is wrong to say that G-d is non-setient, He is Setient, else He is not the truthful G-d, one is wrong in reckoning Him.
Please
Regards

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, claim.



And here we are.


Bonus; those are two different pantheons. Why would you need to do this? To provide something for your opinion/claim/whatever you want to call it.

Kali and Thor are two deities from two different cultures and representative of two entirely different qualities, so there is no point in comparing or contrasting the two. It would be like comparing and apple to a fig tree.

Perhaps it would be better to compare Kali to Jörð, as both represent Mother Nature. Both are humanizations of the same concept. While Jörð is the mother of Thor, who is representative of an aspect of Nature (i.e. thunder) in the Norse pantheon, Kali, while having no literal descendants (that I'm aware of, perhaps a Hindu can state otherwise), She is the mother of all, and by default, the mother of thunder in the Hindu pantheon.

Which leads me to my point. Different cultures have different deities that represent the same aspects of Nature. The Gods of the Abrahamic religions have many parallels as well. Wouldn't it stand to reason that different cultures are revering the same deity of a different name? And given this, could it not also stand to reason that Gods Goddesses of different cultures that represent Earth fall under a greater deity that represents the Universe?

 

[SalixIncendium]

"In my view, this God is non-sentient, non-judgmental, and does not control one's fate or destiny, and has no interest in the outcome of humanity or any other species."

I don't agree with one on the above colored in magenta. Please

Because G-d has let us know...
He knows that and lets us know...

Us? G-d[sic] hasn't let me know anything.

If we do good and virtuous things he will reward us in a god way and if we do evil, we get the punishment, in this world and in the hereafter.

I already wrote this in another post, but don't feel like going back and searching through the thread, so I'll restate it here. What you are describing is causality. How can your be sure that this is being done by the will of a God and isn't just how the Universe works?

He will judge our deeds and misdeeds. He is the Master of the Day of Judgment, and everything is in His control and none could escape from His control. He doesn't need us, but we need Him, and we could get His nearness, and He guides us to Him. If we remember Him, He remembers us.

Aside from what you've been told or what you have read, what knowledge do you have of this?

So, it is wrong to say that G-d is non-setient, He is Setient, else He is not the truthful G-d, one is wrong in reckoning Him.
Please
Regards

Okay, let's stop right here. That statement is essentially proselytization. I take exception to you telling me what I write is wrong unless you can provide evidence to the contrary or share knowledge or experience stating otherwise. My belief is no less valid than yours.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Kali and Thor are two deities from two different cultures and representative of two entirely different qualities, so there is no point in comparing or contrasting the two. It would be like comparing and apple to a fig tree.

If all gods are an aspect of One God, then this shouldn't be an issue.

Perhaps it would be better to compare Kali to Jörð, as both represent Mother Nature. Both are humanizations of the same concept. While Jörð is the mother of Thor, who is representative of an aspect of Nature (i.e. thunder) in the Norse pantheon, Kali, while having no literal descendants (that I'm aware of, perhaps a Hindu can state otherwise), She is the mother of all, and by default, the mother of thunder in the Hindu pantheon.

Kali is also "the destroyer", a trait which Jörð does not share at all. In fact, in one major myth Kali almost destroyed the entire world, only being stopped by Shiva, her beloved. Kali also destroys her children (something Jörð hasn't done,) being associated with death just as much as she is creation.

Different cultures have different deities that represent the same aspects of Nature.

Which doesn't make them the same. I craft armor and prop weaponry for cosplaying. So do countless people the world over, even using the same materials and subject mater. Are we the same people?

The Gods of the Abrahamic religions have many parallels as well.

There's only one god of the Abrahamic religions; the god of Abraham - Yahweh.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that different cultures are revering the same deity of a different name?

Not necessarily. Thor and Zeus, while both gods of thunder, are completely different. Zeus is the king of the Olympian gods, Thor is not chief of the Aesir tribe. Zeus wed his sister, Thor did not. Thor protects Midgard, Zeus often causes calamity for mortals. There are even stark differences between the Roman and Greek gods of the same association, though mainstream mythology glosses over that considerably; for instance Ares is a bloodthirsty, temperamental warrior, whereas Mars is a leveled, calculating General.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If all gods are an aspect of One God, then this shouldn't be an issue.

Kali is also "the destroyer", a trait which Jörð does not share at all. In fact, in one major myth Kali almost destroyed the entire world, only being stopped by Shiva, her beloved. Kali also destroys her children (something Jörð hasn't done,) being associated with death just as much as she is creation.

Which doesn't make them the same. I craft armor and prop weaponry for cosplaying. So do countless people the world over, even using the same materials and subject mater. Are we the same people?

You are still posting under the assumption that "aspect" means "the same". Aspect means "feature", "facet", or "characteristic". It does not mean "the same". If you continue to operate under such a fallacy, we have nothing more to discuss here.

There's only one god of the Abrahamic religions; the god of Abraham - Yahweh.

Granted. But there are such vast differences in the view of this God among Islam, Christianity, and Judaism that they can be perceived as separate due to cultural differences. Heck, we go to war over these differences. So the parallels and differences here can be seen in the Mother Nature deities of different cultures as well, no?

Not necessarily. Thor and Zeus, while both gods of thunder, are completely different. Zeus is the king of the Olympian gods, Thor is not chief of the Aesir tribe. Zeus wed his sister, Thor did not. Thor protects Midgard, Zeus often causes calamity for mortals. There are even stark differences between the Roman and Greek gods of the same association, though mainstream mythology glosses over that considerably; for instance Ares is a bloodthirsty, temperamental warrior, whereas Mars is a leveled, calculating General.

As stated above, the differences between Thor and Zeus rival the differences between the views of the Abrahamic God.



I also want to dismiss a possible assumption that the intent of my OP was to state that my God is the One True God™. I'm not sure if you are operating under this assumption, but just in case you are. My first statement ITT should have prevented one from drawing that conclusion.

 

[Electus de Lumine]

I know many that believe the god of their religion is the One True God™. Holy wars, jihad, etc. have resulted in countless deaths due to this concept.

I am of the opinion that all gods worshiped/revered by all religions are merely aspects of one God. In my view, this God is non-sentient, non-judgmental, and does not control one's fate or destiny, and has no interest in the outcome of humanity or any other species. It just is. I believe most gods are injected with human characteristics to facilitate human relation with them, but do not actually possess these characteristics in a stand-alone version. The "god" concepts that are born of human emotion/character (loving, angry, caring, judging,etc.) come from man, not god. However, these emotions/characteristics manifest in one's personal god due to the energy put forth by a particular god's adherents. This opinion does not lend any more or any less credence to the existence or validity of one's personal god, nor is it saying that your god is any more or less real than another's. I just think most that identify themselves as religions and subscribe to the One True God™ mentality are missing the bigger picture. I am more than willing to elaborate on my thoughts on this should one ask.

I am looking to read responses from people that disagree with my opinion ITT. If you view my concept as invalid and believe your god is separate from or is not an aspect of a greater God, I would like you to provide your thoughts as to why he/she/it is not or cannot be. I am not looking for Scripture quotes or any other references to holy texts. These are man-made by people other than you (check local listings) and simply promote bias. I am also not looking for comments based on something someone else has told you to think. I am looking for real-life comments based on experience, contemplation, or personal enlightenment. Of course, hard evidence is always welcome.

What makes a god a god?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You are still posting under the assumption that "aspect" means "the same. Aspect means "feature", "facet", or "characteristic". It does not mean "the same". If you continue to operate under such a fallacy, we have nothing more to discuss here.

There's no fallacy. And don't threaten me with that; if you don't wish to continue this discussion then don't. No one is twisting your arm to participate--though that does make your point unverified or proven.

Even operating with those definitions. Imagine it as a gemstone; each facet is a different plane on the same gem. That is what is inferred when you say that every god is an "aspect" or "facet" of the same god.

Only with the various deities that we've got, the differences are so far removed that ignoring every deities' individuality and person to claim that they're somehow aspects of a greater whole is over-simplified almost to the point of ignorance.

Granted. But there are such vast differences in the view of this God among Islam, Christianity, and Judaism that they can be perceived as separate due to cultural differences.

Not really; not when it's the mythology being compared. Yahweh is just as bloodthirsty, jealous, and warmongering whether he's called Yahweh, the LORD, or Allah. That we go to war over who's prophet was right, who's the messiah, or who has the right way of doing things doesn't really reflect on the nature of the god of Abraham.

So the parallels and differences here can be seen in the Mother Nature deities of different cultures as well, no?

No, not really. Jörð is nothing like Kali, or even Gaia, in their mythology, core personalities, or veneration and devotion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Perhaps it would be better to compare Kali to Jörð, as both represent Mother Nature.

Kali is not an Earth Mother Goddess. She is the Goddess of Time, Existential Death and Destruction, and Liberation.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thor protects Midgard, Zeus often causes calamity for mortals.

To be fair, Zeus is also a Protector of humanity, who He is said to love, as He is a God of Order in the mortal realm.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What makes a god a god?

Man venerating a ideal to be one. In my opinion, of course.

 

[Electus de Lumine]

Man venerating a ideal to be one. In my opinion, of course.

By that definition I have many gods.

Freedom, intelligence, equality, knowledge, truth, and willpower being some of them.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There's no fallacy.

Ah but there is. Any literate person that has access to a dictionary can see this. A challenge to you. Find me one, just one, dictionary definition that states that an aspect of something is the same as or equivalent to that theme and post the link here.

And don't threaten me with that; if you don't wish to continue this discussion then don't. No one is twisting your arm to participate--though that does make your point unverified or proven.

I'm not seeking for validation. I'm sharing ideas and looking for opinions. Of course you have not given yours, as your too busy trying to prove that aspect means the same. Case in point...

Even operating with those definitions. Imagine it as a gemstone; each facet is a different plane on the same gem. That is what is inferred when you say that every god is an "aspect" or "facet" of the same god.

The plane of the gem is not the gem. It is merely a portion of it. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting (not proving or verifying). All gods man reveres or worships are gem planes of one gem.

Only with the various deities that we've got, the differences are so far removed that ignoring every deities' individuality and person to claim that they're somehow aspects of a greater whole is over-simplified almost to the point of ignorance.

Who is ignoring their individuality or even suggesting that be done? Each facet on a gem is unique. As are gods. That does not disqualify the possibility that they are all a part of a whole.



I never suggested ITT that all gods are the same god. That is your inference. I suggested that they are all parts of the same god.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Kali is not an Earth Mother Goddess. She is the Goddess of Time, Existential Death and Destruction, and Liberation.

Yes she is the Goddess of Time, Existential Death and Destruction, and Liberation, but she is viewed as far more than that...

Kali - Wikipedia