The Only Way To Escape Hell

[Ben Masada]

The only way to escape Hell.

That's from one of Jesus' parables. The one about the Riichman and Lazarus. There was a certain rich man, who, somehow, due to his opulence and pride, as well as his uncharitable life, he ended up with his being thrown in Hell as his afterlife punishment. Lazarus, on the other hand, due to his patience in spite of his ordeal, got to go to Heaven, which in Jesus' words, meant the bosom of Abraham.

And in Hell, the Richman lifted up his eyes, being in torments, look at Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and asked for mercy, if not for him, for his family. If he could send Lazarus to his family to testify to them, so that they could escape the torments of Hell. Then, Jesus, through Abraham's mouth said: "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them."

The Richman insisted that if one went to them from the dead, they would repent. Then, Jesus, through Abraham, said that "If they don't listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:19-31)

This prophectic parable has been fulfilled every day for about 2000 years. Christians believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead, but it seems to me, there is no way to persuade them to listen to Moses and the Prophets.

The expression "Moses and the Prophets" means the Law in one word. Christians prefer to listen to Paul rather then to Moses. They either do not believe Jesus' words or that Hell does not exist. It was just a parable anyway, what the heck? At least, believe the Prophets for a change. The only way to set things right with God, so that our sins become as white as snow is to repent from our transgressions to the
Law and return to obey it. (Isa. 1:18,19) Jesus couldn't have been more clear, that to listen to Moses is the only way to escape Hell.
Ben

 

[Meow Mix]

Darn, I knew I was being swindled when I won that Get Out of Hell Free card at that poker game...

 

[doppelganger]

I'm not under "the Law," so I don't worry about going to "Hell." It's circumcision of the heart that really matters. Without that, "the Law" is an flawed substitute for the genuine experience of Divinity.

 

[Ben Masada]

Darn, I knew I was being swindled when I won that Get Out of Hell Free card at that poker game...

Don't worry my dear. That's just a parable. I am sure you know that a parable is just a story with the intent to bring out of it a moral lesson. For all that we should care, the personages couldn't even have existed at all. Jesus' aim here was to remind us that God's Law was still to be observed to keep us on the safe side as the consequences of a law transgression are concerned. That's the law of cause and effect; and it is completely under our control. You know, if you cross the red light, you are going to have to pay for it. That's as simple as that. Does it make sense?

 

[Ben Masada]

I'm not under "the Law," so I don't worry about going to "Hell." It's circumcision of the heart that really matters. Without that, "the Law" is an flawed substitute for the genuine experience of Divinity.

What are you then, an outlaw? There are only three classes as far as the Law is concerned. Above the Law, under the Law and outlaws. Above the Law, only God is. Under the Law all law-abide citizens are. Outlaws are the criminals. Sorry, but either you like it or not, we are all under the Law. The outlaws are in jail or, eventually, on the way to it.

 

[PolyHedral]

Above the Law, only God is.

Europe used to operate on the idea that the King was above the law, because he was God's earthly representative.

We got rid of that system about 500-600 years ago, for obvious reasons. Why does God being the leader make any difference?

 

[doppelganger]

What are you then, an outlaw? There are only three classes as far as the Law is concerned. Above the Law, under the Law and outlaws.

And those who aren't subject to "the Law" at all or any of its "three classes." Sorry, I'm not subject to any religious laws. Jewish priests (or any religion's priests) have no jurisdiction over me. I would face the real world consequences of violating the secular laws. Because these would be from authorities who do have the ability to impose their will on me through the coercive power of the state. But there's no such power in a bunch of ancient myths except the power put there by the operation of my own superstitions, which is largely a null set in my case.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Only one way to escape Hell? Are you kidding me?

I've been to Hell ... several times. It is a little podunk town in southcentral Kentucky also known as Logansport.

And there are plenty of ways out of that place. They got an interstate highway, I-65, that runs north and south. There are two state highways--one that runs all the way to Louisville and another that'll take you to Nashville, if you're inclined that direction. There are at least a couple dozen dirt roads criss-crossing the county like cobwebs. And there is even a ferry that'll carry you over the Green River, taking a person right into an even crappier little town called Beaver Dam. Most folks don't realize there is a place worse than Hell ... but that's 'cause they've never visited Beaver Dam, Kentucky.


"I didn't think it was a one-horse town, but just try gettin' a decent hair jelly." --Everett McGill

 

[Ben Masada]

Europe used to operate on the idea that the King was above the law, because he was God's earthly representative.

We got rid of that system about 500-600 years ago, for obvious reasons. Why does God being the leader make any difference?

Because He is not like a man to be considered in the human level. Unless you are referring to the anthropomorphic gods of religions. These, if they existed, would be under the natural laws.

 

[Ben Masada]

Only one way to escape Hell? Are you kidding me?

I've been to Hell ... several times. It is a little podunk town in southcentral Kentucky also known as Logansport.

And there are plenty of ways out of that place. They got an interstate highway, I-65, that runs north and south. There are two state highways--one that runs all the way to Louisville and another that'll take you to Nashville, if you're inclined that direction. There are at least a couple dozen dirt roads criss-crossing the county like cobwebs. And there is even a ferry that'll carry you over the Green River, taking a person right into an even crappier little town called Beaver Dam. Most folks don't realize there is a place worse than Hell ... but that's 'cause they've never visited Beaver Dam, Kentucky.


"I didn't think it was a one-horse town, but just try gettin' a decent hair jelly." --Everett McGill

You ain't serious pal. But, kind a cute anyway.

 

[Ben Masada]

And those who aren't subject to "the Law" at all or any of its "three classes." Sorry, I'm not subject to any religious laws. Jewish priests (or any religion's priests) have no jurisdiction over me. I would face the real world consequences of violating the secular laws. Because these would be from authorities who do have the ability to impose their will on me through the coercive power of the state. But there's no such power in a bunch of ancient myths except the power put there by the operation of my own superstitions, which is largely a null set in my case.

Poor creature you are! Arrogance and pride are twin brothers. Who said anything about religious laws? See what your arrogance took you to? With a bite on the tongue for speaking too fast without thinking. The law of cause and effect includes all kinds of behavior, either religious or civic. What did I say to MM above in post #4? Cross the red signal and you will find out if you are under the law or not. That's not religious law, but it will serve you the same purpose.

 

[doppelganger]

Poor creature you are! Arrogance and pride are twin brothers.

Preach it, brother!

 

[Ben Masada]

Preach it, brother!

Well, next time, focus on what you are reading and I won't have to preach.

 

[doppelganger]

Well, next time, focus on what you are reading and I won't have to preach.

It's the ridiculously mixed metaphors that threw me.

 

[Ben Masada]

It's the ridiculously mixed metaphors that threw me.

There is no ridiculous metaphor, but poor imagination.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There is no ridiculous metaphor, but poor imagination.

Mmmmm, nope. Your metaphor was pretty ridiculous.

 

[jarofthoughts]

So, does that mean that all the people who lived before Moses went to Hell regardless?
I mean, by some accounts humanity has been around for at least 200.000 years and surely old as Moses might have been, he wasn't THAT old?
Without Moses to tell them how it is, they must have violated the law from pure ignorance.
What's your stance on that?

Also, by the looks of things, Hell seems like the place to go when you die.
I mean, that's where all the cool people are.
Jimi Hendrix, Bill Hicks and Carl Sagan just to mention three, and in that little package you have your music, your laughs and your deep conversations all in one.
Throw in a couple of bottles of whiskey and you have yourself a damn fine weekend!

 

[Thesavorofpan]

The only way to escape Hell.

That's from one of Jesus' parables. The one about the Riichman and Lazarus. There was a certain rich man, who, somehow, due to his opulence and pride, as well as his uncharitable life, he ended up with his being thrown in Hell as his afterlife punishment. Lazarus, on the other hand, due to his patience in spite of his ordeal, got to go to Heaven, which in Jesus' words, meant the bosom of Abraham.

And in Hell, the Richman lifted up his eyes, being in torments, look at Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and asked for mercy, if not for him, for his family. If he could send Lazarus to his family to testify to them, so that they could escape the torments of Hell. Then, Jesus, through Abraham's mouth said: "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them."

The Richman insisted that if one went to them from the dead, they would repent. Then, Jesus, through Abraham, said that "If they don't listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:19-31)

This prophectic parable has been fulfilled every day for about 2000 years. Christians believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead, but it seems to me, there is no way to persuade them to listen to Moses and the Prophets.

The expression "Moses and the Prophets" means the Law in one word. Christians prefer to listen to Paul rather then to Moses. They either do not believe Jesus' words or that Hell does not exist. It was just a parable anyway, what the heck? At least, believe the Prophets for a change. The only way to set things right with God, so that our sins become as white as snow is to repent from our transgressions to the
Law and return to obey it. (Isa. 1:18,19) Jesus couldn't have been more clear, that to listen to Moses is the only way to escape Hell.
Ben

I've always been taught that this was a parable telling you that you didn't have a second chance after you died and that you should listen to God's law while you still have a chance. But then again what exactly is God's law now? Does God even care nowdays that anyone's listening to it or not?

 

[Ben Masada]

I've always been taught that this was a parable telling you that you didn't have a second chance after you died and that you should listen to God's law while you still have a chance. But then again what exactly is God's law now? Does God even care nowdays that anyone's listening to it or not?

Good question! God, but the real God does not care or needs that anyone listen to Him. He has granted us with freewill and Intellect. With regards to Jesus' parable about the Richman and Lazarus, for all that we care, none of the personages existed, neither Hell nor bosom of Abraham. The aim of the parable is in the lesson Jesus meant to convey: That the Law remains to be observed if we want to keep ourselves our of trouble. That's what keeps us saved from the consequences as a result of transgressions. Faith, as Paul used to teach, means nothing if we don't listen to Moses. That is, if we don't obey the Law.

 

[Ben Masada]

So, does that mean that all the people who lived before Moses went to Hell regardless?
I mean, by some accounts humanity has been around for at least 200.000 years and surely old as Moses might have been, he wasn't THAT old?
Without Moses to tell them how it is, they must have violated the law from pure ignorance.
What's your stance on that?

Also, by the looks of things, Hell seems like the place to go when you die.
I mean, that's where all the cool people are.
Jimi Hendrix, Bill Hicks and Carl Sagan just to mention three, and in that little package you have your music, your laughs and your deep conversations all in one.
Throw in a couple of bottles of whiskey and you have yourself a damn fine weekend!

That's a parable JoT. For all that we care, none of he personages existed, neither Hell nor bosom of Abraham. The point was to bring up the lesson that whatever we do, good or bad, we will either enjoy or suffer for the consequences. That's what I call law of cause and effect. To me too, Hell is the grave where we all head to some day. And Heaven is a peaceful conscience for the good done to others and to ourselves.

Jesus mentioned that parable because some of the Jews were worried if he had come to abolish or change anything about the Jewish religion. That parable came only to confirm Matthew 5:17-19 that nothing changed and that everything would remain down to the letter.