The"Other" message about Gays in the bible.

[mickiel]

I have often used the analogy of " The Other Lion" is the one who makes the kill. The one the prey didnot see.

In my study of the bible and human nature, I find a striking simularity in " The Other Message" which people don't seem to see. The Other way to look at it, the Other meaning of a striking truth. People find these hell verses and run them into the ground, and totally miss the Other verses that literally cancel out these hell verses.

Well its the same with homosexuality. The ferverant righteous zealot believers go after these " Gay verses", shall we call them, lock on to them and drive them in the ground. And just miss the other verses, which are ALWAYS more powerful in meaning, the other Lion who made the kill is more powerful. But they didnot see him.

The real biblical message concerning Gays is not seen. And I want to go into that message and bring it out into the open, and you will see that God himself feels " No different about Gays", than he does anyonelse! Hes not going to treat them any different, hes not out to " Get them', he is not targeting them in any manner other than to Love them as much as he Loves you!

In fact, when God considers a human, which I think he rarely does, but when he focuses on a human, he does not " Even SEE their sins or faults!" I know many of you willnot believe this, but I am going to show you how true it is. When God does happen to pay attention to us, he totally ignores anything negative or evil or personal choices we have made. Espically sexuality, which the bible really calls lust, or desire.

When God considers a human, he does not care if their Gay, married, short or tall, rich or poor, a killer or a drunkard, those things mean nothing to him.

But I want to focus on the other message in the bible about Gays.

Peace.

 

[Comicaze247]

Amen to that.

I believe the message was to "Love the sinner, not the sin." Nowhere does that say "condemn the sinner." You love the person for who they are, even if you don't approve of the sins they commit. After all, it's supposedly "God's" judgment that matters in the end, not that of mere humans. Sure, we were supposedly made in his image. But does it ever say anywhere in the Bible that we were made to have his authority? If it does, please show me the verse.

There is only one "true Christian" that I know of, and she is the mother of a lesbian Wiccan. She never made a big deal out of her daughter's coming out. It never changed the way she felt about her daughter. She would even attend Gay Pride and Pagan Pride days, giving the same love and acceptance to everyone there that she does to any straight and/or Christian person. She gives love and respect to all. And as I recall, Jesus is said to have acted the same way.

THAT is a true Christian.

 

[mickiel]

Amen to that.

I believe the message was to "Love the sinner, not the sin." Nowhere does that say "condemn the sinner." You love the person for who they are, even if you don't approve of the sins they commit. After all, it's supposedly "God's" judgment that matters in the end, not that of mere humans. Sure, we were supposedly made in his image. But does it ever say anywhere in the Bible that we were made to have his authority? If it does, please show me the verse.

There is only one "true Christian" that I know of, and she is the mother of a lesbian Wiccan. She never made a big deal out of her daughter's coming out. It never changed the way she felt about her daughter. She would even attend Gay Pride and Pagan Pride days, giving the same love and acceptance to everyone there that she does to any straight and/or Christian person. She gives love and respect to all. And as I recall, Jesus is said to have acted the same way.

THAT is a true Christian.

Well I agree, although I am not into the label" Christian" as being the standard of righteousness. I prefer the standard of " Believer", that to me is a more exact label. Jesus had a very different aittitude and it was uniqe, but it was a window into what Gods aittitude toward Gays is. In Matt. 19:19 Jesus taught to " Love your neighbor AS yourself!" He felt we should extend the same Love toward those who are in our area, that we take the care of giving ourselves. It does not matter what the sexual orientation of your neighbor is, what really matters is to Love them, to care about their well being.

And thats how God thinks. God Loves humans AS he Loves himself. God Loves Gays as he Loves himself.

And I want to go into that heavy revelation.

Peace.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

She would even attend Gay Pride and Pagan Pride days, giving the same love and acceptance to everyone there that she does to any straight and/or Christian person. She gives love and respect to all. And as I recall, Jesus is said to have acted the same way.

actually jesus wasn't any fun at these big gatherings of people he takes slight moral issue with. just hope that all the outdoor furniture at pride is nailed down and he cant find anything to make a whip out of.

but seriously, the behavior she's exhibiting is not exactly all that christian, she just seems like someone with a lot of motherly integrity who knows that dogma can never be as important as family. i think the person herself deserves the credit for being so open and accepting, not necessarily an institution that would rather see these festivals broken up by inquisitors and all attendees burnt at the stake.

 

[Comicaze247]

Well I agree, although I am not into the label" Christian" as being the standard of righteousness. I prefer the standard of " Believer", that to me is a more exact label.

I'm not saying "Christian" is the standard of righteousness. I'm saying that this woman in particular is practicing exactly as she preaches.

actually jesus wasn't any fun at these big gatherings of people he takes slight moral issue with. just hope that all the outdoor furniture at pride is nailed down and he cant find anything to make a whip out of.

I think that part of the story was told to show that, though he was the son of "God," he was still human, and made mistakes.

but seriously, the behavior she's exhibiting is not exactly all that christian, she just seems like someone with a lot of motherly integrity who knows that dogma can never be as important as family. i think the person herself deserves the credit for being so open and accepting, not necessarily an institution that would rather see these festivals broken up by inquisitors and all attendees burnt at the stake.

But you have to remember, there is no consensus on what a "Christian" is. So the definition I draw from a "true Christian" is someone who practices what Jesus taught, and that is what this woman does.

 

[doppelganger]

A Fable - Story by Mark Twain

 

[mickiel]

John 3:16 totally describes how God thinks about Gays, no matter what ANY believer in him thinks about Gays;" For God " So Loved" the World, that he gave them Jesus. The REASON why Jesus came, was because of Gods Love. In John 1:29, it tells us right out that Jesus came to " Take away the sins of the WORLD", not just self righteous believers who walk around with the mindset of condemning the world, using biblical scriptures to do it. He came for us all, which includes ALL of our ways and charactheristics.

I'm telling you, what we do, how we think, how we carry ourselves, our desires, our morals, it does NOT matter to God, all that matters to God is his Love for humanity. God Loves himself, his way of thinking, his own Righteousness, he complettely believes in his Characther. And THATS how God will deal with Gay humanity, its what he thinks about them.

He Loves Gays like he Loves himself, and thats why they are not condemned.

But you got to see God in this, NOT his believers and their interpitation of Scripture and God. Believers do not run Heaven or Earth. Some can barely run themselves, me included in that one for sure.

But there are some churchs who have got this part of the biblical message, and although I do not endorse churchs, I would like to mention a few who welcome Gays, Atheist, no matter what you believe. And that I think is impressive.

And I want to go into a few of them.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Unitarian Universalist churchs seem to really be open to Gays in their congregations, some even having Gay Pastors that lead the church. I know some Lesbian led Unitarian Universalist churchs.

So there are churchs Gays can attend and not have to be bothered with racism.

But let me go into how God does not even " See Sin", or see our sexaulity, or see our belief or unbelief, or see our ways and beings in life, if and when he looks at us.

Peace.

 

[Misty]

But let me go into how God does not even " See Sin", or see our sexaulity, or see our belief or unbelief, or see our ways and beings in life, if and when he looks at us.

An assumption NOT a fact

 

[mickiel]

But let me go into how God does not even " See Sin", or see our sexaulity, or see our belief or unbelief, or see our ways and beings in life, if and when he looks at us.

An assumption NOT a fact

I am not assuming. Unlike you, I am looking at this without a chip on my shoulder, I have no gripe with the world and religion, and not much use for either. I walk alone. God is not like " Us." He has no chip on his shoulder, he has no religion and has not endorsed any on this earth, he has no hate in him, no problem with any of us, and means us no harm.

And when he considers one of us, he does not look at us, like we look at others.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

So the definition I draw from a "true Christian" is someone who practices what Jesus taught, and that is what this woman does.

i feel you are simply failing to give credit where credit is due. the vague nature of "christ's" moral teaching ends up lumping a lot of decent people under the category of "little christ". i doubt, however, that in the majority of these cases the people responsible for doing good do so because it was preached to them, rather, it's more likely because it feels right to them.

i get the impression this woman would be a good mother regardless of how 'jesus' felt about anything.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

So there are churchs Gays can attend and not have to be bothered with racism.

 

[Wandered Off]

People find these hell verses and run them into the ground, and totally miss the Other verses that literally cancel out these hell verses.

When some verses cancel others out, you can't get a coherent message, so you bring your own (as Dopp's post alludes).

 

[mickiel]

But let me go into how God does not even " See Sin", or see our sexaulity, or see our belief or unbelief, or see our ways and beings in life, if and when he looks at us.

Peace.

When Jesus was nailed to the cross, he had taken the penalty for sin away from all of mankind, past, present and future. In Matt. 27:46 Jesus sensed that God was not there with him at that moment, thats because Jesus had the heavy burden of a worlds sin on his back, and God does not even " Look at sin." He does not see it, and at that moment, didnot want to see his Son do this.

In Habakkuk 1:13 the " Sense is given" that God willnot look at sin. So when God decides, and as I have stated I think he VERY rarely decides, to personally examine a human himself, he willnot see their sins or faults or weaknesses, they are automatically - somehow- blocked out from him.

So it is a serious " Myth" that God is watching us sin everyday. Or that he is up there counting our evils and discrections. He does not even want to see the mess we are in, he sees " Somethingelse in us." So when God considers a Gay person, he does not consider their sexuality. When God considers a hetersexual, he does not consider their sexuality, weather they masterbate or not, or are in illict affiars. God does not consider how unfaithful you have been to your mate.

IF God considers you, its just YOU he is concerned with and what HE wants from then on. IF , God is looking at you, then he is looking at EVERYTHING GOOD about you!

And this is just how God is.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

If God gets involved with you, he couldcareless what religion you are in! Oh I know thats going to ruffle some feathers. Your church means nothing to him, IF he is placing his intrest in you. Your sins are meaningless, he voids them out. THATS how God is! And thats why it would be a GREAT blessing to ANY human God is considering, because IF God decides to deal with you, you are going to change, change is in the making. IF thats what God is after.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

John 3:16 totally describes how God thinks about Gays, no matter what ANY believer in him thinks about Gays;" For God " So Loved" the World, that he gave them Jesus.

May I also add the verse after that:

"and whoever shall believe in him shall not perish but go to heaven"

Seems to me that as long as you believe you are assured a place in heaven.

-Q

 

[mickiel]

May I also add the verse after that:

"and whoever shall believe in him shall not perish but go to heaven"

Seems to me that as long as you believe you are assured a place in heaven.

-Q

Well thats true, but unbelief does not disqualify anyone from Salvation, Romans 3:3-4 shows that. Heaven is for both believers and unbelievers, and Salvation is not based on belief, nor determined by belief, but belief is still a wonderful thing now. God determines when a person will believe, and he controls that. He determines when a person willnot believe just as well Q.

We cannot escape his Salvation, we cannot disqualify ourselves, we can do nothing to stop our Salvation, nor do anything to " Spur it on."

Its just has nothing to do with us. Or our sexual orientation or physical desires. Its out of our hands, and I, for one, am glad of that!

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Let me get into what its like to be Gay, and to consider religion as Gays are forced to do. I have gone into Atheism, without being Atheist, and I go into Homosexuality from that same point of view. I am not Atheist, but I understand a bit of it, but I am finished going into Atheism. But it was a great experience for me to go into it with Atheist. I learned a great deal.

I encourage any Gay poster here to join in with me, as I go into being Gay and examine what kind of existence this is and the ramifications religion has had on it. And examine how God feels about this.

Peace.

 

[kejos]

John 3:16 totally describes how God thinks about Gays, no matter what ANY believer in him thinks about Gays;" For God " So Loved" the World, that he gave them Jesus. The REASON why Jesus came, was because of Gods Love. In John 1:29, it tells us right out that Jesus came to " Take away the sins of the WORLD", not just self righteous believers who walk around with the mindset of condemning the world, using biblical scriptures to do it. He came for us all, which includes ALL of our ways and charactheristics.

Jesus paid for the sins of the whole of humanity- but that does not mean that there is no more punishment. There is no impugnment of God now possible by anyone- but the consequences of human rejection of his sacrifice negates that sacrifice, that atonement, that payment, completely, for those who reject it. Those who refuse to accept that they have sinned, or admit it, but refuse to accept the gift of salvation, have to justify themselves before 'the court', without the 'perfect advocate' who pleads his own righteousness on their behalf.

There is not the faintest hope of success for those who reject Jesus, because even one evil act is sufficient for a guilty verdict. Rejection of Jesus takes place if there is any refusal to accept Jesus' teaching, that does not allow that homosexuality is innate, or acceptable for any reason. Homosexual acts are forgiven if committed before commitment to Jesus, but they are not at all likely to be forgiven if committed afterwards, any more than burglary is.

 

[mickiel]

Jesus paid for the sins of the whole of humanity- but that does not mean that there is no more punishment. There is no impugnment of God now possible by anyone- but the consequences of human rejection of his sacrifice negates that sacrifice, that atonement, that payment, completely, for those who reject it. Those who refuse to accept that they have sinned, or admit it, but refuse to accept the gift of salvation, have to justify themselves before 'the court', without the 'perfect advocate' who pleads his own righteousness on their behalf.

There is not the faintest hope of success for those who reject Jesus, because even one evil act is sufficient for a guilty verdict. Rejection of Jesus takes place if there is any refusal to accept Jesus' teaching, that does not allow that homosexuality is innate, or acceptable for any reason. Homosexual acts are forgiven if committed before commitment to Jesus, but they are not at all likely to be forgiven if committed afterwards, any more than burglary is.

Let me say this is the religious mentality that Gays have always faced. A perfect example of it, and if Gays do not familurize themselves with the truth in the bible, then they will continue to be victums of this most deadly view of the bible. Romans 5:18 shows that one act of righteousness by Jesus, cancels out ANY act of unrighteousness by any human. Thats just AMAZING GRACE which describes God and how he feels about Gays.

To be Gay, in my view, is, at its root, two different realitys: One, a predeterminded desire placed in you without your choice before you were born; secondly, its a choice that is made at some point in your life.

And let me go further into that.

Peace.