The period after death

[Ozzie]

Point taken, Dan.



I understand completely, Rhonda. Discussions on RF often add new dimension to the word banal. I, for one, am glad that I managed to peak your interest.

I certainly agree on that note. What I find somewhat surprising is how incredibly unreasonable most of the ideas put forth actually sound, especially when they are given with the utmost sincerity and doubly so if one has a little book clutched in their hot little hands to back up said puerile thinking.

My own experience is that this is normally in the form of dreams and am less inclined to accept "first person" accounts of literal visitations of disembodied "spirits". To date, I have had several wonderful dreams featuring my dad, who croaked ummm... three years ago. The last one was spectacular and was reminiscent of descriptions people often give of being in a tunnel (I was in a long hallway) during a Near-Death-Experience or NDE. The neat thing was that my dad was at the other end of the hallway and congratulating me on something. Behind him was a door that stood ajar, behind which, was a very brilliant light.

Based on my current thinking, it is up to the recently deceased individual and to the person here on Earth. I am more inclined to think that the "Earthbound" are largely imagining the experiences due to some lack on their end of the chain and overcompensate for that lack by generating the imagined "contact", rather than bona fide "contact" however.

You are welcome anytime. My PM and Inbox, are always open for you.
PS: Sorry, but I don't "do" Facebook, so had to decline your offer to join the festivities therein.

Something that is required for a psychological continuation beyond death is a grouping principle. From my perspective, some grouping principle is also necessary with or without psychological characteristics if one is to maintain identity in the period beyond death. For me, what is most seductive is that my body dissolves, that my mind evaporates, that my energy dissipates into new life. In fact asking this question is the same as asking what causes life. If something pushes life to exist, something might also push life to exist beyond the form recognisable in this life. If consciousness continues after death, it would have to be an event something like a violation of the entropy principle on a macroscopic level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(arrow_of_time). These are fantastically rare events, but given enough time could occur, like the equally improbable formation of stars and galaxies from "perturbations in the energy field". Fantastic stuff to contemplate.

 

[ruhnafsoul]

Just curious.....
Is it death that scares you or dying (process)

both.. the process and death itself

 

[aymen amir]

I have had a bit of an "aha" moment and am concertizing my ideas about the period following the initial death experience. For those who are not up to speed, it is my contention that, upon physical death, the individual experiences whatever they believe will happen after physical death. This is wide open, in those terms and includes anything and everything people can imagine, including nothingness.

Now this "aha" moment wasn't about that period of the death experience. The "aha" moment was about the period directly following this experience and it is that part that I wanted to get your ideas. In short, what I am envisioning is that the events unfolding after physical death happen in at least three stages.

1. The body croaks and the initial subjective death experience occurs.
2. The intial death experience is past and one gets used to their new surroundings
3. After getting reacquainted with the root assumptions of the current system, the individual is able to get out and explore.


Does you religion or your own personal beliefs include details about the post death experience? Please note: This is a discussion area and therefore peoples comments are not open to debate. There will be no requests for evidence, thank you, very much.

I guess why I am asking is that I perceive a period wherein the individual is getting used to their new environment and is not able to wander too far, lest they disturb the locals, as it were, at least, not at first.

Understand that I am not interested if you agree or disagree. That isn't the point of this discussion. The point of this discussion is to compare ideas of what happens after physical death.


Any thoughts?

for us Muslims we know what is going to happen cause we spend our life preparing for our death , we have 2 options either hell or heaven and i even believe that if i do bad sins my grave will turn to hell and if the other way around then it will become heaven inside my grave . i this may sound weird to you ,but i know the moment they put me inside my grave 2 enormous Angles will come and ask me 3 questions who is your prophet and what is your religion and who is your lord , and the answer i give will decide my condition , and i also believe that this is going to happen to every one no matter what they believe in .

 

[YmirGF]

i this may sound weird to you ,but i know the moment they put me inside my grave 2 enormous Angles will come and ask me 3 questions who is your prophet and what is your religion and who is your lord , and the answer i give will decide my condition , and i also believe that this is going to happen to every one no matter what they believe in .

Yours is not an especially cheerful outlook, Aymen Amir. Let's hope you get those answer right, eh? Me? I don't believe in angels, so I am unlikely to hallucinate them upon my death.

 

[mitchellmckain]

For those who are not up to speed, it is my contention that, upon physical death, the individual experiences whatever they believe will happen after physical death.

I think that expectations very likely has a big impact on this.

First of all I believe that all living things have an eternal aspect of their being which is a product of the choices they make in life, which I call the spirit. It is a reflection of the way in which our choices define what we are. It is a form of energy that is what it is by its own nature and not by any relationship to anything outside of itself. There are a few significant consequences of this.

The first is that any relationships with things outside of itself must come from within -- from the those choice that have defined its own nature. There is no longer any imposition from the outside to provide any traction by which it can change its course, so it will continue moving in the same direction as it was before, following its values, desires and beliefs unchanged. Thus it is very important to understand that there is no great revelation of truth moment to be found after death.

Thus I believe that the experience after death under the parameters you have outlined might best be described as ones hearts desire under all the limitations of your own heart and imagination. If this sounds great and nice, then your understanding of spiritual things is not very promising. It is most likely a nightmare unless you have learned some mistrust of your desires and thus have a habit of looking outside of yourself for direction, value and truth. Certainly if you have made no substantial connections to people, for who they truly are, then whatever the appearances may be the truth is that you will be alone. To be as a little child looking for a parent to pick you up and take you where you need to be, could very well be immensely helpful.

But this is not likely. What is most likely is that your desires will become your reality and all the longing wants of your life will become a railroad track upon which your experience will be fixed beyond any ability of yours to change. Thus you will pursue what you have valued in life single-mindedly to the conclusion of where that must ultimately lead. If you had the wherewithal to do so, you would hope that you had made the right choices, but most likely you will not question it at all -- especially if you have not made a habit in your life of doubting yourself.

Thus where you go and what you experience are entirely things of your own creation, and heaven and hell are not bins into which someone else judges you to belong. Instead these are the ultimate polarizations of destiny with respect to life and death. Either you have what you need in order to find eternal life or you are on a course to a place of your own creation where you are the god and master of all that you will see and have. You can envision it as two roads set before you, one promises comfort and all that you desire where you will be what you want to be, and the on the other is the discomfort of facing all the things which you have avoided, where you have to face the truth of yourself. The question is whether you can choose wisely between these two roads, for most would take the first road and call it heaven, but life is not found in comfort and so that great vacation retreat is a vacation from life itself. On that road you will follow your desires to see it proven that you have chosen wrongly and that a world where you are god and master is not such a nice place after all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I came to a conclusion just a few days ago. Upon death, our essence, our collective energy, or "soul" if you will is left in the universe. We are then left for a indefinite amount of time, until we loose the will to carry on and release our selves back into the universe, to be reborn on this planet, or another.

 

[Raithie]

Our brains (which contain everything that is you) shut off and our bodies decompose.

After that, nothingness.

It's a sad thought, but it forces you to appreciate the rarity, fragility and downright beauty of life.

 

[Hawkins]

1. The body croaks and the initial subjective death experience occurs.
2. The intial death experience is past and one gets used to their new surroundings
3. After getting reacquainted with the root assumptions of the current system, the individual is able to get out and explore.

Any thoughts?

First, you'll know clearly (crystal clear, though in reality you may be clueless and unprepared for such a death), you know clearly that you are going to die and from that point onward your mind is also crystal clear as it is the most aloud wake-up call you ever received in your life.

You will then perceive a new dimension. I conclude that it is because your soul starts to flow out of your body. And in such a status, you will perceive a new space dimension (as you don't seem to be aware of speculating your own soul at the moment).

You don't seem to be able to get out of the body fully. The body has a kind of dragging force to keep your soul within. Perhaps till your body is 'fully dead' that you may get out fully of your soul (by your own will, that is). The body is thus more like a cocoon while the soul is more like a worm. So you can imagine how a worm is trying to get out of its cocoon!

Then your spirit will fly out, you will then know that your conscience remains with your soul, not your spirit. And there will be no turning back after the giving out of the spirit. Then the process of death is over. There could be 2 outcomes by that moment. That is, either you'll be put to a sleep, or your soul is free to let go.

If you are going to be put to a sleep, you'll see a magic like effect (more like of spell casting) then you will fall for a sleep (perhaps till next time you are waken up, resurrection in Christianity), of which you perceive no time. As for those who remain awaken, they can chat with each other in a very special way where it doesn't seem to have a language barrier. While visually you are more like living under the deep sea.

So good luck in your trip!

 

[Aquitaine]

Hmmmmmm, I'm not sure of the "answer", 'cept I kinda like the fact that we're imperfect creatures and are limited in terms of knowledge - because I kinda like it how no-one knows what happens after death, I can't really explain it except that it means there is always the unknown (limitless potential for anything I guess, even things beyond Humam comprehension).

In relation to the actual process of death, I'm kinda leaning towards the idea that we simply will not acknowledge/recognize our own deaths: since in order to acknowledge or experience your death, your brain has to be functioning. So, presuming you died quickly, you probably won't be aware that you're dead, and you won't be alive to be aware that you're dead etc.

Confusing, but still, I do wonder.

 

[TheMontanankid.]

I believe that when we pass away we either transisition to a new world or our spirit returns to the universal collective.

Either way, i believe part of us lives on in this world because even after death, we contribute as bio mass.

 

[jaareshiah]

Our brains (which contain everything that is you) shut off and our bodies decompose.

After that, nothingness.

It's a sad thought, but it forces you to appreciate the rarity, fragility and downright beauty of life.

To many, death is the end of it all. Our bodies does decompose, returning to the ground. The belief that afterward there is "nothingness", however, is not factual, for there is the hope of being among the living again by means of a resurrection from the dead and of which only God can provide, whose name is Jehovah.(Ps 83:18) Of mankind, even "nobles" or those in high office, it is stated that "his spirit (or life force, likened to electricity) goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."(Ps 146:4)

It then adds that "happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in Jehovah his God." Why ? He is our Creator, who purposed that obedient mankind not die but live forever, yes forever, on a paradise earth, with there being an "abundance of peace."(Ps 37:11)

Death for obedient mankind was never purposed, but because of Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden, we all die. Hence, just as a car can be restored to running condition, so likewise our Creator has made the way for many who have died to be restored to life again, to be resurrected, which comes from the Greek word a·na´sta·sis and literally means “raising up; standing up" to life again.

The ancient man Job asked some 3500 years ago: "If an able-bodied man dies can he live again ?" He shows he has faith in God to bring people back to life, for he says: "All the days of my compulsory service (or dead while in the grave) I shall wait."(Job 14:14) He then says that "you (God) will call, and I myself shall answer you (for God will apply his power to bring Job back from the dead)."(Job 14:15)

 

[it's_sam]

I too share your belief YmirGif and have also thought long and hard about the in-between of this experiance. Between steps two and three the spirit (energy) would be transfering to where it has the most attraction "similair to magnetism or gravity". So to me this time of transition to the new perception of your existance would be a type of traveling. Whether this is something that goes to Earth or through some wormhole in space there would have to be some kind of transfer or "movement". I have read and studied about such sibjects and have concluded the best possiblity to suit this line of thought would be, depending on your amount of self control from all sides depicts how well you can focus on what you are being shown. This could also be just levels of understanding in what you can handle seeing so if you are missing a side in yourself you just wont end up seeing anything from it I.E. having no connection to that thought with enough truth for it to be a reality. I really enjoyed hearing how you have come to this and thanks for sharing it to the rest of us

 

[it's_sam]

As far as our bodies go to include them in the previous line. I see our bodies as a chance to change and influence our "place" or rather showing us why we are put where we are. Not because it's where he wants us but it is infact where we all want to be individualy. Once the body dies we can no longer do actions to change our place, but the brain is still firing connections with "some" control so until the brain dies you are able to still at that last second "change your mind". This ofcourse would be for people that have found no stability in their life but they know who to look to for a hand. Once the brain is dead you can no longer change or influence your thought and your perception would become inverted from your previous state. So for the purposes os this theory instead of perceiving what we will and processing that into thought, we would see our thought and then just have it be percieved by the individual. To go even a step further in this the "thought" we see would be able to mingle with other thoughts that are similair or rather people that "know" you. As has been mentioned in the bible sharing the one mind of God. I see our chance with a body and no longer just a "thought" is an amazing oppertunity and i thank him every day.

 

[it's_sam]

Just had a thought to add to this. Once added to the "one mind" he would have the ability to still offer a change but only through him and no longer your own personal will to do so. This would probably be about as fast as our own thought if not faster but requireing two individuals or more rather then one.

 

[jaareshiah]

According to Jewish belief, up to one year the spirit remains with the body, as it is attached to it. This is why in our tradition one waits a year before laying the headstone, as to not show disrespect.

The book of Psalms that was inspired by God and written by Jews, provides insight as to what happens immediately upon death, for Psalms 146:4 says of "earthling man", that "his spirit (or active life force) goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."

Just as turning off a light switch causes the light to go out, so likewise when a person's spirit or life force leaves, a person's thoughts immediately perish and he or she dies. However, for them to live again, only God can bring them back by means of a resurrection.(Job 14:14, 15; Dan 12:13)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

hmm... I'm afraid of death.. I'm afraid to experience death.. really scared me.. especially when I had witnessed a person during the last moment the death comes to him..
I pray..and believe in GOD, to ease the burden of being afraid of death... and this afraid, is not being created by me, but it appears inside me..
Nobody knows the period after death.. but I believe we leave our body when we are dead

Jesus believed he knew the period after death.
Jesus had a friend that was dead for four days.
According to Jesus recorded words at John [11vs11-14]
Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death.

Even the word cemetery means sleeping place [RIP]

Jesus would have learned his beliefs from the Hebrew OT Scriptures.
King Solomon, who was known for his God-given wisdom, wrote
The dead are not conscious of anything- Ecc. 9vs5,10
The Psalmist agree:
Psalm 6v5 there is no remembrance.
Psalm 13v3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115v17 the dead do not praise God
Psalm 146v4 at death thoughts perish.

Daniel [12vs2,13] is interesting because Daniel was confident that many that sleep in the dust of the ground will awaken. Awaken on resurrection morning or during Christ's millennial-long day of reigning over earth when as Revelation [21vs4,5] says even death will be no more.
Our last enemy [1st Cor. 15v26] 'death' will be brought to nothing.
and Isaiah [25v8] assures us that death will be swallowed up forever.

As for our day or time frame, those that are as the living sheep-like people of Matthew [25vs31,32,46] can remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth and can gain everlasting life without ever having to die. Truly the good news of God's kingdom when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[it's_sam]

Lets say we become a victim to a body of energy manifest. Since we allready keep our will when dead (is that right?) we would still be able to navigate a mind and thought like always but we wouldnt be restricted by our own experiences. People that are of Gods one mind would be more or less on the same wavelength since this isnt something you can lie about, and the other side would be everyone else. Both sides would be of energy and able to not only know the thought, but they are experiencing it similair to hypnotism and doing this through the minds still alive and processing thought. So lets say you didnt believe in God, whent crazy and killed a bunch of people and then yourself. You could essentialy be pulled into that thought/experience everytime someone brought it up. Without Gods house for safety you would have nowhere to go but be trapped in that insanity. Ofcourse all of this is theoretical but energy and thought go hand in hand.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......but energy and thought go hand in hand.

Since thoughts perish at death [Psalm 146v4] then there is no energy going on at death.

All future life prospects now lie with God in that there is going to be [Acts 24v15] a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. Did you notice the future tense used that there 'is going to be' a resurrection?
The prophet Daniel [12vs2,13] looked forward to that future time on earth when on resurrection morning, or Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth when the dead will be restored to life. Like Jesus friend of John [11vs11-14] most of mankind will have an earthly resurrection to a paradisaic earth in fulfillment to the promise to Abraham that all families and all nations will be blessed. Blessed with everlasting life or living forever here.
-Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev. 22v2

 

[it's_sam]

Since thoughts perish at death [Psalm 146v4] then there is no energy going on at death.

The energy is no longer going through the body after death, but the energy has transfered somewhere else. If the energy had a specific flow after leaving as our thought it may be influenced on its journey outward but it still had the same core ressonating that echo. If time and space are relative the beggining point could technicaly be the "body" of your current consciousness "energiac control". An example of this would be having that point in space be your current time as you progress to the future of your life after death, but it was only just a thought previousely in your life. If even thoughts create movement and in effect and echo you could go to any "point/space" of your life and live it in current time.

 

[icebuddy]

Since thoughts perish at death [Psalm 146v4] then there is no energy going on at death.

Everytime i see this type of writing in the bible, it is normaly pointing out not to put trust in people of this world because when they die, their plans for the future dies with them. If you look around the texts, we do not find this passage talking about the after life, but this life on earth. For look at Jesus's Story in luke 14. A Rich man died and wants to return to his family and warn them about what going to happen if they dont change. Why cant he warn them now? Because to his family when he died, his thoughts, plans, ambitions stopped. Yet Jesus talks about the Rich man like he is still alive somewhere else.

My point is that, these scriptures are telling us not to put our Trust in Kings or Princes because when they Die, they cannot help you. Trust in God who can help. For who knows, these Kings and princes could be with the Rich man or with Jesus after they die?

In Love,
Tom