The Pitifully Flawed, Unreliable Judgment Behind Voting for Trump for "No War"

[Subduction Zone]

Trump said no war.
So until war breaks out, he has kept the promise.

Is an undeclared war still a war?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Is an undeclared war still a war?

Well, if it allows you to argue "well technically he didn't lie, all the thousands of lives lost, trillions spent, and irreplaceable artefacts destroyed are OK, because we're not calling it a war".

 

[Revoltingest]

I suspect it might have been a good idea to clarify in the OP that it is targeted at people who frequently repeated apologetics for Trump and supported him rather than merely throwing a vote in the ballot. It seems that expressing outrage at having one's political decisions criticized can drown out the ability to see nuance nowadays.

What you call "nuance" looked far more direct in the OP.
But no, it wasn't nuance. You continued with claims about
posts of mine which ostensibly supported Trump & policies.
And now you've found none.
If you came out & admitted error & apologized for hostilities,
I could respect that. No one's memory is perfect. But to
backpedal without owning up to it....that's just gonna fester.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Is an undeclared war still a war?

INB4 "can't charge trump with warcrimes if it's not a declared war".

 

[Revoltingest]

Is an undeclared war still a war?

I think it might be useful here to avoid determining whether actions to date
by both parties constitute "war" or not. Too much bickering over semantics.
Instead, how about the risk of policies escalating violence, which greatly
increases the probability of war occurring?

 

[Revoltingest]

Even back then I could see that if Hillary got us into war it would be for "half decent" reasons, and I did not think that too likely. Right from the start I could see Trump getting us into war for stupid reasons.

Reasonable people could disagree.
Your considering shortcomings of both was proper.
But alas, a "half decent" reason for war might be what Trump provides.
We faced the lesser of 2 frightening evils.
One picks an option, but one shouldn't take pride in it, or blindly support all it does in office.
(But one will nonetheless be accused of it, eh.)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reasonable people could disagree.
Your considering shortcomings of both was proper.
But alas, a "half decent" reason for war might be what Trump provides.
We faced the lesser of 2 frightening evils.
One picks an option, but one shouldn't take pride in it, or blindly support all it does in office.
(But one will nonetheless be accused of it, eh.)

the mistakes that we make will often come back to haunt us. Justified or not.

 

[Revoltingest]

the mistakes that we make will often come back to haunt us. Justified or not.

If only there were a method of divining alternative futures with 99% confidence.
OK, I'd settle for 80% confidence.

 

[sun rise]

Considering we aren't at war and Iran took the best possible tack for them, directly aiming for no American casualties, perhaps you should reconsider your own political judgement.

When he attacked an embassy he went too far, and Iran seems to have understood that with their response. We'll see going forward.

If someone gets to trump and he does not escalate as he swore to do, then yes, we're back from the brink. I'd like to see that, but I would not bet on it.

 

[sun rise]

No. It shows that there was, like other things Trump promised, no reason to believe him. He gave too many indications he'd do what he wants and what favors him, with crap reasoning skills, a highly self centered personality, and lots of indications he was talking out of his ***. Like his obviously not that great IQ he claimed is one of the highest, his overall wealth is contested and doubted, and the taxes he said he'd release but had no intentions of doing so.

He character disorders were well known before the election. How they'd manifest was unknown. But we've seen that those who pointed out his narcissism and what someone with that problem is like were accurate.

 

[sun rise]

Which I find to be a pointless rant, honestly.
Trump LOST the popular vote by several million votes.
Thus he was not elected by the people.



Hillary all but guaranteed we would be at war.
Trump promised no war.

So those who did not want more wr voted for the one saying no more wars.


How bad do you think you will look if no war come from this situation?

Hillary was trying to prove she'd be tough as needed. People misinterpreted what she said for reckless promises.

 

[sun rise]

Is an undeclared war still a war?

We don't fight wars any more. We now have "armed conflicts" officially (of course).

 

[Revoltingest]

Hillary was trying to prove she'd be tough as needed. People misinterpreted what she said for reckless promises.

You were doing well until this one.
Hillary actually had a senatorial record of starting & continuing wars.
(It's true everyone....her voting record is open for public viewing.)
Sure, sure, I acknowledged that Trump was a risk for war.
He was no guarantee of peace.
But Hillary actually did the deed.
So perhaps you were the one misinterpreting....her war drums as peace drums.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What you call "nuance" looked far more direct in the OP.
But no, it wasn't nuance. You continued with claims about
posts of mine which ostensibly supported Trump & policies.
And now you've found none.
If you came out & admitted error & apologized for hostilities,
I could respect that. No one's memory is perfect. But to
backpedal without owning up to it....that's just gonna fester.

There is no error. I'm sure you know what you are doing and what you have defended before, and I certainly see no reason to apologize for calling out morally dubious political stances. I believe everyone should do so when they encounter those.

The fact that you focus on emotional appeals by repeatedly invoking words like "venom," "viciousness," and "hostility" demonstrates a lot, although it is also quite predictable and doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[Stanyon]

$10 says he'll suspend the next election because of the war he just started. I'm calling it now.

I call you on that and raise you $20 (Zimbabwe) that he will just declare himself president for life and reinstate the draft for black people only.

 

[Stanyon]

Many Trump voters said they elected him instead of Hillary Clinton because he was "less warlike." Now a war with Iran is basically a reality, almost entirely thanks to Trump's ill-conceived handling of foreign relations and negotiations.

This, in my opinion, is a stark reminder for anyone who knows such Trump voters to thoroughly dismiss and disregard their political judgments in the future as unreliable, irrational, and flawed. We would all be better served by ignoring their input on future matters of considerable political gravitas.

Your low-rent political decision has now resulted in unrest for many of us living thousands of miles and an ocean away. Congratulations on "making America great again."

Unrest in the Middle East? It always seemed like such a peaceful area.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Can't argue against such eloquent deflection.
Well.....yes I can.
I caught you making an unsupported allegation.
You will neither support it nor fess up.
This awkwardness will linger til one or the other.

The OP was about people (including me) rather than our beliefs.
(You didn't mention my beliefs in the OP.)
You should re-read it. You'll see.

When I've criticized yours, I've actually quoted them.
This is the reasonable, clear, & fair way.
Pick a post of mine.
It's easy.
Try searching thru my posts just the last couple days for "Trump".
Let's address it.
I double dog dare you.

I don't see any reason to limit the search to two days only. We're talking about a track record here.

Not that I care much about arguing with you at this point since I haven't seen and expect that I won't see a specific, minimum level of directness, but here are just a few examples of deflection, apologetics, and thinly veiled support:

Oh no, Joe...

A Third Woman Alleges She was Sexually Assaulted by Donald Trump

Government Sails Along More Smoothly Than Some Think

Trump Wages War Of Oppression Against Gays

The Trump Effect & The New Democrats

Trump Wages War Of Oppression Against Gays

Just to sum this whole thing up, I know that you dislike certain economic policies to the point of possibly making them factor into voting (or not) for someone. That's fair, except when said policies include better tax regulations that you clearly oppose for personal reasons and then try to paint that as "the lesser evil."

If you were at least direct about valuing perceived economic security over some civil rights issues and also direct about other reasons for posting Trump apologetics, we would still disagree but be frank about where each of us stood. Instead, what I'm seeing here is a bunch of sugarcoating and denial. That renders any discussion fruitless, as far as I'm concerned, and as a result, I see no reason to engage this with you any further.

Good luck. You got your examples (even if only a few out of many others), which I won't be surprised to see you reject or deny as well. Oh well. At least I tried to help you feel better.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

We don't fight wars any more. We now have "armed conflicts" officially (of course).

Note well: the international treaties and conventions regarding war crimes are the "Laws Of Armed Conflict", or LOAC (sometimes erroneously called the Geneva Convention, the Geneva convention is only part of LOAC) so whether they're officially a war or not, nation states are still expected to abide by them. This includes stuff like "not intentionally bombing cultural/non-military sites"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Many Trump voters said they elected him instead of Hillary Clinton because he was "less warlike." Now a war with Iran is basically a reality, almost entirely thanks to Trump's ill-conceived handling of foreign relations and negotiations.

This, in my opinion, is a stark reminder for anyone who knows such Trump voters to thoroughly dismiss and disregard their political judgments in the future as unreliable, irrational, and flawed. We would all be better served by ignoring their input on future matters of considerable political gravitas.

Your low-rent political decision has now resulted in unrest for many of us living thousands of miles and an ocean away. Congratulations on "making America great again."

Anyone who claims Trump wasn't an obvious warmonger before voting for him is a liar or a fool. The man literally advocated invading foreign nations on a "humanitarian basis" and taking half of their oil in payment. He was obviously not, nor ever was he, the choice of peace-loving voters.