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The Pitifully Flawed, Unreliable Judgment Behind Voting for Trump for "No War"
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Meaningless buzzphrase alert.
Credibility reduced.
Never supported Hillary.
Try again, caller.
Boy, it sure is good that this will never happen, otherwise you might have a claim that can easily be proven false.
You voted for a guy who advocated invasion for oil long before the election, and claimed he was the anti-war candidate.
When are you going to admit that?
I had credibility?
Next thing I know you'll tell me I was once pretty.
In an election between only 2 terrible candidates
with any chance of winning, there are 3 options...
1) Abstain (including 3rd parties), letting others choose.
2) Vote for one.
3) Vote for the other.
You've vehemently argued against voting for Trump.
I'm sure you wouldn't abstain.
That leaves Hillary as your effective choice.
And yet, you refuse to face her record as a hawk in government.
With blinders on, you rage against Trump, unaware of anything else.
And you have the luxury of flaming Trump without facing the alternative.
Even before the election I stated his shortcomings.
So "admit" is a mischievous word to use.
But will you admit that your beloved Hillary had some deadly baggage to bring to the office?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Making stuff up sure is fun, eh?
"I don't need to admit responsibility for my voting for Trump. In imaginary land I imagine you probably imaginarily would have imagined voting for Hillary and that makes my vote for an obvious moron okay somehow."
It's incredibly ironic that you say this in a thread about responsibilty for voting Trump into power. And yet here you are, imagining how I would have voted in an election I had no input into and using it to avoid taking responsibility for your vote.
I have the luxury of telling people who voted for Trump "I told you so", and dismissing any attempt for them to defend their incredibly poor, ill-judged decision.
And yet, still voted for him. On the back of his not being a warmonger. Despite him being a warmonger. And subsequently leading America to war.
I don't have to admit anything, because she isn't my "beloved Hillary" and never has been.
Well, they do use words.So now conservatives and liberals are no longer talking...
But "talking" suggests something more productive than seething tirade.
At least a few (mostly the cons) are civil when disagreeing with me.
But ya know what's really odd....
With some liberals, even when I say I agree, they won't accept it.
They'll still claim disagreement, & go all bull in a china shop at me.
Man...just look at this thread. You & I disagree while remaining
friendly. Why can't they?
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Audie
Veteran Member
You don't take a position...you just trash others'.
If you are to rage at Trump voters, you should offer an alternative.
But you lack the courage to admit it's Hillary.
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Ameristan is a
Alas, your homeland is enduring interesting times too.
You be careful out there.
A diversion......
Here's some music I find appropriate for this thread.
@Wu Wei provides the dance number.
It'll inspire some much needed smiles.
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Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
To the OP; I think that it is fair to say that it is clear that those who voted for Trump in 2016 were much more influenced by the clearly biased, right-wing media propaganda and lie machines that still exist; and are stronger today than they were then.
In no small thanks to Trump’s complete denial of the existence of these known propaganda networks influencing American voters into believing lies and other BS, then these same people/dupes are likely to regurgitate more of the right-wing propaganda from many of the same sources that clearly misled them back in 2016.
Yes. Any fair review of the information back in 2016 showed that Hillary was a much better pick than Trump. Yes. Trump was a known conman, failed businessman, and flip-flopping and psychologically damaged war hawk/racist/misogynist.
There is no way (without admitting insanity or complete ignorance of the facts available in 2016) to deny these realities.
And let’s face it. Most who voted for Trump fall into the latter category, with complete ignorance of the facts.
Once burned, twice shy. Please lets all be more wary of the news sources that we ingest, and call out the pathological liars for who they are....immediately....loudly....clearly....and without mercy.... or democracy is doomed. For it relies upon a well-informed voting public, not the frothing vomitus of those claiming garbage like, Trump was/is a more honest or less war inclined “average working Joe” than Hillary (or just about any sane human being on Earth).
Homicide, suicide, and war are most often brought about through the personality failure of lacking good impulse control.
In no small thanks to Trump’s complete denial of the existence of these known propaganda networks influencing American voters into believing lies and other BS, then these same people/dupes are likely to regurgitate more of the right-wing propaganda from many of the same sources that clearly misled them back in 2016.
Yes. Any fair review of the information back in 2016 showed that Hillary was a much better pick than Trump. Yes. Trump was a known conman, failed businessman, and flip-flopping and psychologically damaged war hawk/racist/misogynist.
There is no way (without admitting insanity or complete ignorance of the facts available in 2016) to deny these realities.
And let’s face it. Most who voted for Trump fall into the latter category, with complete ignorance of the facts.
Once burned, twice shy. Please lets all be more wary of the news sources that we ingest, and call out the pathological liars for who they are....immediately....loudly....clearly....and without mercy.... or democracy is doomed. For it relies upon a well-informed voting public, not the frothing vomitus of those claiming garbage like, Trump was/is a more honest or less war inclined “average working Joe” than Hillary (or just about any sane human being on Earth).
Homicide, suicide, and war are most often brought about through the personality failure of lacking good impulse control.
So I'm corrupted by right-wing sources like NPR, Wa Po, NYT, Huff Po,
The Atlantic, Wikipedia, etc? Geeze...you people just make this stuff
up without even asking about our sources.
You should've included in your 'information' Hillary's voting record in the Senate.
She never met a war she didn't like. That had to be considered against Trump's
loose cannon personality, & penchant for conflict. So you didn't have a fair review.
The problem with realities is that you cannot simply look at the ones which
confirm your bias, ie, pro-Hillary anti-Trump. To do that is to court ignorance.
That's all they have left, would you be so heartless as to take it from them as well?
Well, we're supposed to be about civil discussion of the issues here.
But apparently the forum mission has changed.
Go figure.
Correct. This is a long-term problem for America that will persist beyond the Trump years. The American electorate is simply not competent to self-govern any longer. Trump still enjoys better than a 40% approval rating. Over two in five Americans consider him acceptable. To what extent do you want your future connected to theirs and their decisions?
The OP said what many of us are thinking but are reluctant to say. With all due respect,I simply don't trust the judgment or the ethics of a Trump supporter. And I don't buy into your depiction of Hillary. Your entire argument against her seems to be related to voting to go to war against Iran as a US senator. That seems like an inadequate judgment of her. Her presidency would likely have been similar to Bill's and Obama's. This narrative that you had to vote for an impulsive, vengeful, narcissistic compulsive liar and serial sexual predator and adulterer because he was the lesser of evils based on a vote of Hillary Clinton's almost 20 years ago doesn't hold water, and is simply seen as another error in judgment.
I'll confess that this is a litmus test for me. If you're a Trump supporter, I conclude several unflattering things about that person, and don't go to them for moral or political opinions.
As I indicated above, this is a huge problem given how many Trump supporters there are in America. I've also indicated to you that this was alarming to me back in the early Bush years, when we saw the yahoos at Toby Keith concerts cheering America to war while angrily calling the rest of us cowards, traitors, appeasers, aiders and abettors, and everything else but fellow American. It was clear to me then that America had an abiding problem that not only wasn't going away, but would likely get worse, and it has. Also, that such people were not fellow anythings to me any longer. We and they might both be Americans, but that was no longer enough to feel a connection to them.
It was then that we decided to unhitch our wagon from America's conservative star.
This is something I posted just before leaving the States ten years ago, an analogy for the American left and right, which I call the parable of the retarded brother. It is still valid today:
America is sort of like a business. It has assets, capital, a cash flow, and produces goods and services. The analogy refers to the two main camps in America today, which have polarized. These are the brothers, and their business is America.
From the perspective of either side, the other is foolish and wrong-headed. I happen to be liberal, and call the conservative contingent the retarded brother, but I understand that the right sees us the same way. For example, by 2008, the Republicans had terrified the nation so much that it elected a black man president. Even Virginia, home of Gen. Robert E. Lee and former capital of the Confederacy, preferred Obama to McCain. Even Indiana, long time headquarters for the Ku Klux Klan, preferred the skinny, big-eared, unknown and largely untested black man to the Republican. Even North Carolina, the state that chose Jesse Helms to be their senator for 30 years and that did everything in its power to deny African-Americans a vote let alone equal right, preferred the black man described by his opponents as the most liberal man in the Senate
But four years later, the Republicans are competitive again, and may win the next election. Using the retarded brother who is a full partner with check writing and contract signing privileges analogy, this is like firing an accountant for mismanagement or embezzlement, and four or eight years later, finding out that your brother signed him to another four year contract. You might not want to stay in business with such a partner, one who can't remember the past and keeps making the same mistakes that will drag you down with him.
From the perspective of either side, the other is foolish and wrong-headed. I happen to be liberal, and call the conservative contingent the retarded brother, but I understand that the right sees us the same way. For example, by 2008, the Republicans had terrified the nation so much that it elected a black man president. Even Virginia, home of Gen. Robert E. Lee and former capital of the Confederacy, preferred Obama to McCain. Even Indiana, long time headquarters for the Ku Klux Klan, preferred the skinny, big-eared, unknown and largely untested black man to the Republican. Even North Carolina, the state that chose Jesse Helms to be their senator for 30 years and that did everything in its power to deny African-Americans a vote let alone equal right, preferred the black man described by his opponents as the most liberal man in the Senate
But four years later, the Republicans are competitive again, and may win the next election. Using the retarded brother who is a full partner with check writing and contract signing privileges analogy, this is like firing an accountant for mismanagement or embezzlement, and four or eight years later, finding out that your brother signed him to another four year contract. You might not want to stay in business with such a partner, one who can't remember the past and keeps making the same mistakes that will drag you down with him.
As expected, the retarded brother did it again.
People are angry at Trump voters. They consider that vote irresponsible - a failure as a citizen. The country could absorb a few percent of such people, but this is nearly half the nation. Even now, it appears that much of America is unaware of the mistake it has made. You seem to have come around somewhat regarding Trump, which is to your credit, but I don't recall reading another poster claim to have voted for Trump and now would not do so again. They still love him. Over 40% of the nation. Where's the hope there?
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Uh oh...nothing good ever follows that.
This exemplifies poor judgement, ie, failing to even try to understand my criticism of Hillary.
- She never voted to go to war against Iran.
- She did vote to go to war against Iraq.
- She voted to continue the war in Afghanistan.
- But she did threaten to "obliterate Iran" if they attacked Israel.
Mein Gott, bruderherz...you dis my judgement, but you get the basic facts wrong.
This isn't knowable, yet you present this alternative reality as fact.
Again, a judgement issue.
Your preference for a candidate who started & continued 2
devastating wars casts doubt on your morality & judgement too.
In every election, there are opposing sides.
This last one differs in that more than ever before, one side cannot
see any but its own. Hillary was the anointed one, assured to win.
Her loss to a boor like Trump hurt them....deep agonizing pain.
They lash out at those of us whom they blame for stealing their
election. You accept no responsibility for running a lackluster hawk..
..a candidate so failed that even someone like Trump beat her.
You people hate us so much that you won't even hear my side.
You invent factoids (noted above)....you invent motives...you make
it personal...call us names. Yet you have no reasoned argument..
.
Learn to disagree without being disagreeable.
You want Trump to be a one term Prez?
Don't just complain about us.
Give us a real alternative for 2020.
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Yes. We know. And, as in the case of the OP, no matter how often and how completely you are shown to be incorrect, you will not change. Yet we still have to carry you. Thus the burden of the non retarded brother.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Obama only did that to preemptively make Trump look bad!
I ran across something which should be added.
So you get one post quoted twice.
(There should be an award for that.)
I only voted for him....never supported him.
It would be like giving you a choice (no other options) between explosive
diarrhea or skin cancer. You'd likely pick the former, but that doesn't mean
you support explosive diarrhea. You'd be picking the lesser of 2 evils.
Sure, sure, you'd want something else, but it's not included in your options.
So you must really hate Tulsi Gabbard.
Ref...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...gabbard-queen-warmongers-russia-2020-election
What she wrote about Hillary....
"You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and
personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party
for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain,”
So you get one post quoted twice.
(There should be an award for that.)
Well, you should be OK with me then.
I only voted for him....never supported him.
It would be like giving you a choice (no other options) between explosive
diarrhea or skin cancer. You'd likely pick the former, but that doesn't mean
you support explosive diarrhea. You'd be picking the lesser of 2 evils.
Sure, sure, you'd want something else, but it's not included in your options.
You say I'm wrong about her being a war monger.
So you must really hate Tulsi Gabbard.
Ref...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...gabbard-queen-warmongers-russia-2020-election
What she wrote about Hillary....
"You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and
personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party
for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain,”
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
This is not about you specifically. Just all who voted for Trump in 2016. Fact is, it was the wrong call. Period.
Now, let’s discuss why those millions were so dangerously wrong.
Even your cited “left wing” sources did a poor job of getting the facts out in 2015 and 2016.
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/27/11504272/hillary-clinton-hawk
Again, as stated elsewhere. She never met a conflict that she liked. See the linked article above.
At all times she tried to avoid the use of arms, yet she was wise enough in the ways of international relations that she knew that sometimes sword rattling is called for, without being so impetuous as to actually take to skewering people.
Voting for a president is never supposed to be as simple as naively believing a known conman who tells you, “I won’t go to war because I say so.”, or “lock her up!”. Such childish black & white answers were among the first clues that former Trump voters should have seen as red flags.
There is only one reality. No “alternate facts”.
We can look at it from many angles and with many filters. And therein lies the problem(s).Trump was the worse(worst) pick. That is reality. That reality was visible back in 2015 and 2016 too...., yet millions of Americans looked at that reality from very strange angles and with nearly opaque filters that had fanciful drawings inlaid upon them.
Many of these duped peoples are too naïve 3 years later to realize something is still covering their eyes.Can we trust people with these strange visual contraptions on their heads to see the dangers ahead and drive the car?
The OP made it abundantly clear that I was included.
So I'm compelled to address flaws in the various accusations flying about.
This illustrates a problem I see with anti-Trumpers.
You believe your opinion to be fact. You don't consider others
because you dismiss them as wrong without consideration.
We can see it in this thread wherein you guys get even basic
facts entirely wrong.
I see a broader picture, & allow that reasonable people could've
preferred Hillary. While I disagree, I don't fault them if they
present reason...something more than just raging at Trump.
I see your inability to face Hillary's problems, & belief that you have the
singular inerrant truth to be a "dangerously wrong" approach to voting.
You'll never consider contra-indicative information if you're convinced
none exists. Her voting record in the Senate is what it is.
But for you to believe that you alone have reality is the height of hubris.There is only one reality. No “alternate facts”.
No that is your opinion.
You confuse it with fact.
Open your mind to alternative views.That reality was visible back in 2015 and 2016 too...., yet millions of Americans looked at that reality from very strange angles and with nearly opaque filters that had fanciful drawings inlaid upon them.
Can we trust people with these strange visual contraptions on their heads to see the dangers ahead and drive the car?
Learn to converse, not just lecture.
Btw, your use of colored text tends to corrupt quoting.
I've tried to fix the corruptions, but some resist.
If you'd just use basic black, it would work better.
And he promised to restart the conflict with Iran.
Some people think that the candidate who produced a peace agreement with Iran was more likely to start a war than the candidate who promised to end the peace.
It's American partisan politics at it's lowest.
Tom