The Pope Wears Prada?

[madhatter85]

Newsweek

He may never make the best-dressed lists, but Pope Benedict XVI is nothing short of a religious-fashion icon, riding in the Popemobile with red Prada loafers under his cassock and Gucci shades. But his penchant for designer wear and a move to ditch the papal tailors who have dressed popes for more than 200 years are causing new wrinkles in the Vatican.
Benedict has favored his tailor from his days as cardinal, Alessandro Cattaneo, and the 20-year-old religious-fashion house of Raniero Mancinelli, which has provided the pope with dazzling new vestments (some with shimmering, sequinlike details). At risk of losing the papal-dress contract are the Annibale Gammarelli tailors, who have made papal wear since 1792. But they blundered when Benedict had to make his debut blessing in a cassock that was too short, ending just above his ankles. Subsequent celebratory vestments made by Gammarelli are reported to have made the pope uncomfortable.The Vatican won't comment on papal attire, and Gammarelli denies it is getting the ax: "We are still in contact with the Holy Father. Perhaps there was only an occasional gift by some friend of the pontiff," the tailor says.

Say what? The pope is now trying to be fashionable? Who is paying for his Gucci Sunglasses and Prada Shoes? what kind of annual salary doe the Pope get?

Just a curious thought, why shouldn't the pope make his own living? why should clergy be paid? Can one of the Catholic members of the forum point out what scripture it's from?

 

[DeepShadow]

Say what? The pope is now trying to be fashionable? Who is paying for his Gucci Sunglasses and Prada Shoes? what kind of annual salary doe the Pope get?

Just a curious thought, why shouldn't the pope make his own living? why should clergy be paid? Can one of the Catholic members of the forum point out what scripture it's from?

If you want to start a debate about paid religion, MH, you really shouldn't be looking at the Pope. The earthly head of any religion would be so increadibly overworked if (s)he had to work another job. Our prophet Gordon B. Hinckley doesn't "work" for his living allowance, after all. And for that matter, I don't think his suits are from Mr. Guy, either.

 

[madhatter85]

our prophet is retired, he is not "paid" by the church, all the church authoritie made thier own living/retirement.

 

[Bishka]

our prophet is retired, he is not "paid" by the church, all the church authoritie made thier own living/retirement.

Actually there are several apostles that did not make enough in their lifetime to be able to support themselves and their wives with what they have to do know and the Church does provide a living allowance for them.

 

[MaddLlama]

I don't think I ever met a member of any Christian clergy who had to work a 9-5 job to live.

 

[madhatter85]

Actually there are several apostles that did not make enough in their lifetime to be able to support themselves and their wives with what they have to do know and the Church does provide a living allowance for them.

that would be under the church's welfare system, the LDS church also helped me and my mother live because she onyl made 400 dollars a month on welfare from the state because she got in a car accident and couldn't work anymore.

what you are talking about is different than a paid clergy.

 

[Bishka]

that would be under the church's welfare system, the LDS church also helped me and my mother live because she onyl made 400 dollars a month on welfare from the state because she got in a car accident and couldn't work anymore.

what you are talking about is different than a paid clergy.

Of course our clergy do not get paid, but I'm not sure if the prophet's/apostles that need the help are actually getting in through the welfare system, although I'm sure one of the other LDS'ers while either confirm or deny my guess.

 

[madhatter85]

Of course our clergy do not get paid, but I'm not sure if the prophet's/apostles that need the help are actually getting in through the welfare system, although I'm sure one of the other LDS'ers while either confirm or deny my guess.

There are Leaders of the church who are unable to work, who are given a modest living allowance if they are unable to care for themselves, but this is only given under strict circumstances. we do not give them a "Salary"; their necessities are taken care of.

 

[madhatter85]

The following statements from LDS leaders explain their disapproval of a paid ministry. Joseph Smith once boasted:

"The only principle upon which they judge me is by comparing my acts with the foolish traditions of their fathers and nonsensical teachings of hireling priests, whose object and aim were to keep the people in ignorance for the sake of filthy lucre; or as the prophet says, to feed themselves, not the flock." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 315)​

​

President Brigham Young declared:

"How much tithing do you pay? The professing Christians, apostates and others have a great deal to say about the Saints paying tithing. Now let us compare notes. The Elders of this Church travel and preach without purse or scrip, and labor at home as Bishops, Presidents, High Counselors, and Ministers, free of charge. Now take the Christians, how many of their Ministers preach without pay? Go to their meetings, in their churches, halls, schoolhouses, or any of their public gatherings, and you have a box, a plate, or a hat put under your face, and it is, 'Give me a sixpence, give me a sixpence, give me a sixpence!' Show me the Elder of this Church that does this? We preach the Gospel without purse or scrip and work for our own bread and butter. Yet the Christian world whine about our paying tithing. The Saints should pay the tenth of their income with glad and thankful hearts, and help to bring home the poor. We have supported and helped the poor to the amount of millions." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 16, p. 44 - p.45, Brigham Young, May 18, 1873)​

​

LDS Apostle George A. Smith preached:

"While all this has been done for our country, and we have comparatively tamed the savage and held in check his wild and blood-thirsty nature, that the inhabitants of the world could travel across the deserts without being robbed and murdered, we have been the subject of vile scandal, simply because our religious views were different from those of the hireling clergy who occupy the pulpits of Christendom. We taught that men should preach the Gospel without pure or scrip--preach it freely; and a man who depended upon a congregation for a salary by which to obtain his black coat and fit-out, was ready to denounce preaching without purse and scrip as a heresy; why? Because it would reduce him to the necessity of going to some useful calling, instead of making merchandise of the Gospel, which God has made free." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.179, George Albert Smith, October 8, 1865)​

​

Elder Joseph A. McRae, speaking at the LDS Conference, October 1902, stated:

"A few weeks ago a lady physician came to our office, ...She said, 'Will you be kind enough to have an interview with one of our ministers and tell him how he can work along these lines.' I remarked to her that I would willingly do so, but that I was afraid he could not live to it or teach it to his congregation. Why? she asked. My answer was, 'He requires a salary to preach the Gospel. Whenever he arises to preach to his congregation and says that which they do not like, they say that he will have to stop preaching that way or they will stop his salary.' 'Now,' said I, 'when I preach to the people, I do not care whose toes I tread on; I do not care who I strike; I teach the truth, and no matter where it hits they cannot come to me and say, "We'll stop your salary" because I haven't any to stop. That is the difference between your minister and me.' That is one great difference between the ministers of the world, who are professing to preach the Gospel unto the people, and theElders of the Lord Jesus Christ. I would sooner be a humble Elder preaching the Gospel unto the people, bearing testimony that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, than to be the greatest 'divine' upon the face of the earth." (Joseph A. McRae, Conference Report, October 1902, p. 11)​

 

[Bishka]

so it's just a guess, so you don't actually know for sure?

It's an educated guess from what I've heard in seminary and Church. I could be very wrong, or I could be very right.

 

[madhatter85]

It's an educated guess from what I've heard in seminary and Church. I could be very wrong, or I could be very right.

I did some research, and i edited my above post

 

[Bishka]

I did some research, and i edited my above post

That's what I figured, I knew I had heard it somewhere and I just wasn't making it up.

 

[nutshell]

The Prophet and Apostles receive a living allowance, madhatter. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

As far as the Pope goes, take the beam out of your own eye, buddy.

 

[Jaymes]

I don't think I ever met a member of any Christian clergy who had to work a 9-5 job to live.

Same here. In fact, most of the pastors I've seen around here are very well-off.

 

[Smoke]

our prophet is retired, he is not "paid" by the church, all the church authoritie made thier own living/retirement.

What job do you think Hinckley retired from? He has been paid by the LDS Church for one thing or another since he was in his twenties.

 

[Smoke]

I don't think I ever met a member of any Christian clergy who had to work a 9-5 job to live.

I have known several Orthodox priests who were unpaid, and earned their own living.

 

[Darkness]

Well, how often does a Roman Catholic Priest have to work? Is it merely Mass on Sundays or does he have other weekly duties?

 

[Booko]

our prophet is retired, he is not "paid" by the church, all the church authoritie made thier own living/retirement.

So only rich people are allowed to serve in that capacity, since anyone poor would have to keep working?

 

[Booko]

I don't think I ever met a member of any Christian clergy who had to work a 9-5 job to live.

Try a lot of the black churches, ML. It's pretty common there. For centuries pastors at those churches worked a job as well as pastoring, and it's still a common practice. Pay no need to the more publically visible "bishops" who drive about in Bentley's. They aren't representative.

For that matter, the pastor at my Mom's church works a 9-5 job. His job involves a great deal of traveling as well. And he has oodles of pastoral work, though the Elders and Deacons try to cover as best as they can. It's a good thing the pastor and his wife never had any children, or they would be neglected with all the work he does.

The previous pastor was paid, but the congregation has gotten too small to support both the building and a pastor's salary.

The Baha'is don't have a clergy, but we do have people elected to serve on local, national and global bodies. I've served on local assemblies for years, but no one gets paid for that. Expenses like office supplies can be reimbursed, though often it's just given as a contribution. If someone is really really strapped for cash and can't get to meetings because they don't have a car or can't afford gas, the assembly would consult about how to get that member there, which usually involves someone else giving them a ride.

At the national level, members of those assemblies still have jobs. For instance, one of the members of my national assembly works as a judge in the 11th circuit court.

At the global level members would be living in Haifa, Israel, and holding down a job is not an option, both because of the amount of work and because they are living in a country where they are not citizens and there are probably limitations on job availability just as there would be in our country. They have a place to live and food and so forth. I have no idea whether anyone receives a stipend for other expenses like clothing. I've never seen a member of the House dressed in pricey clothes, though they are always tidy and well-dressed.

The other side of Baha'i Administration, which consists of individuals who serve in purely advisory capacities, sometimes they have expenses for traveling which I'm sure can be reimbursed. But it's not a paid position.

 

[Booko]

Well, how often does a Roman Catholic Priest have to work? Is it merely Mass on Sundays or does he have other weekly duties?

There are plenty of other weekly pastoral duties. Visiting the sick and dying, counseling couples wishing to marry, counseling couples with marital difficulties, administering the sacraments to those not physically able to make it to Mass, and the list goes on.

Why not ask the question over in the RCC area? I'm sure the Catholics would be happy to fill you in.